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yakplt(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: Yaks "issues" in Continental Europe. |
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Mr. Verhellen,
Having talked to quite a number of pilots that have been subject to the recent groundings in that area, all of which have stated that you have been involved in bringing "your version" of certain information to the attention of the CAA to where they (the CAA) felt that they had to take action.
I agree that in the strict definition of the word, "responsible" is probably not the best word to use. On the other hand, "catalyst" most definitely is.
The rest of your posting is couched in phrases and terms that are in fact EXACTLY accurate (as far as they go anyway), but are incomplete in spelling out the full story.
The bottom line is that in most cases when dealing with official agencies that control aircraft in ANY country, the best advice is to "LET SLEEPING DOGS LIE". You decided to ignore that old and sage advice, and beat very hard on the table until the agency in question took action that you fully expected and had in mind as a goal. Can I prove that here and now? No, not easily, and you fully well know that too. So I will have to register that comment by saying: "This is true in my humble opinion".
I've been involved with email and the ARPA/DARPA/MILNET since the early 1980's, and am very familiar with the tactics used to mislead and misrepresent the truth. Public postings (such as this forum) allow a person to totally twist reality in an attempt to gain public respect and recognition and it becomes next to impossible for the majority of readers to ever know "what really happened", or what the exact truth of the matter being discussed.
As lucky as folks are in the United States, (and a lot of other places as well), everyone is also aware that all it takes is one person with some kind of personal agenda to make things totally miserable for everyone else. That kind of thing is universal in nature. Of course people that do that kind of thing ALWAYS deny it.
I know the answer from you that this posting might generate, but keep one thing in mind... the readers on the Yak List are by and large, pretty darn smart. Our ego's are sometimes a little bit out of control (I speak for myself), but the IQ level is really up there.
Bottom Line: You're right, I am very lucky to live no where near you (excuse me, I mean Belgium) and own a YAK.
--- On Tue, 7/12/11, Etienne Verhellen <janie(at)yak52.fr> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Etienne Verhellen <janie(at)yak52.fr>
Subject: Yaks "issues" in Continental Europe.
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, July 12, 2011, 2:23 PM
"Etienne Verhellen" <janie(at)yak52.fr>
Hi all !
Under a topic called "Yak-52 Fuel Tanks" (!!), on Jun 24,
2011,
Didier BLOUZARD from France wrote this :
"Etienne, Last week I was in a meeting with Belgium CAA and
they told us about your mails to them. you have succeeded in
grouding all the russian registered YAK in Belgium and
France and Netherland will probably follow the move. We all
thank you for your huge effort in telling everywhere that a
RAK YAK is more dangerous than the other registrations. The
result is in temporarily grouding. BRAVO. Now you can be
known as the man who grouded the YAK
We will remember that. Thanks again
Didier BLOUZARD"
A few remarks :
1. Didier, please read the title of the topic before
posting.
The title was "Yak-52 Fuel Tanks" but
unfortunately your post has
nothing to do with it.
Please start a new topic if you have problems
you would like to discuss
on the Yak-list.
2. You had a meeting with the Belgian CAA. Good for you !
3. I was NOT there. I do NOT know what the Belgian CAA told
you.
And I do NOT know what YOU told the Belgian
CAA.
But I can assure you I have never ashed them
to ground Yaks in
Belgium  [Exclamation]
As you probably know, I fly a Yak in Belgium
myself 
4. Nevertheless, you write that Russian registered Yaks
(RAxxxxK) have
been grounded in Belgium ... You write :
"Grounded in Belgium AND France AND
Netherland will probably
follow". A little bit of a
confusing statement to say the least :
* Grounded in Belgium AND France WITH Netherland to follow
the move
OR
* Grounded in Belgium WITH France AND the Netherland to
follow the move ?????
5. YOU then imply that I am responsable for this temporary
grounding !!?!!
-------------------------------
Come on Didier, let's be serious for a moment !
I want to make it clear to everyone reading the Yak-list
that :
1. as far as I am aware, Russian "registered" Yaks
(RAxxxxK) have not
been grounded in Belgium. I have not seen any
document/letter issued
by the Belgian CAA stating what you write
Didier. So please, before
posting in the future, make sure what you
write is correct instead
of spreading harmlful rumours.
2. Finally, unlike yourself I do not meet with the Belgian
CAA and
(unfortunately ! [Wink] ) I have
certainly no influence on their
decisions [Exclamation]
There are indeed issues with RA registrations in
Continental Europe,
especially following a few fatal accidents in France :
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=121933
http://paris-ile-de-france.france3.fr/info/crash-d-un-avion-deux-morts-68527285.html?onglet=videos&id-video=vanv_CRASH_AVION_TOU_1407653_00YJMIIP_250420111808_F3
http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf
http://www.lecharpeblanche.fr/2011/04/25/deux-morts-dans-le-crash-dun-yak-52/
For info, the UK CAA has established a framework to legally
operate and maintain Yaks.
I have attached the 2 letters from the UK CAA explaining
why RA (and LY)registrations were grounded in the UK. In a
nutshell, Yakovlev aircraft DO NOT meet the requirements
applicable to civil aircraft certification that would allow
a Standard Certificate of Airworthiness to be issued
according to the provisions of Article 33 of the ICAO
Convention (Annex 6) with respect to the mutual
acceptability of such certificates within any ICAO
Contracting State. That's why Yaks are EXPERIMENTAL in the
States.
They are lucky in the US of A.
We have to put up with non uniformed "rules" and
incompetent CAAs in Europe !
As you know Didier, Yaks have been grounded in France
before, as you can read on page 11 of this report :
http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf
Yakovlev aircraft were grounded in France in February 2002
because they were not "civilian certified" ... etc.
"En France, les avions de construction russes (Yak 12, 50,
52, 54, 55 et Sukhoï 26, 29 et 31) ont été
interdits de vol en février 2002 par la Direction
Générale del’Aviation Civile (DGAC) car ils
n'étaient pas immatriculés sur un registre civil et
parce que leur régime de certification ne pouvait être
déterminé clairement".
YOU did not write BRAVO to the Yak-list to congratulate me
then ! [Rolling Eyes]
Also read the conclusion ( in French !) on page 19 of this
report :
http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf
The French CAA and EASA should take appropriate measures !
"La DGAC et l’EASA devraient clarifier la situation
et prendre, en conséquence, les dispositions
nécessaires".
That's exactly what I wrote in this article :
http://www.emagazine.flightinternational.com/1Z4dd63f96463e4012.cde/page/47
Isn't it time national aviation authorities (EASA ?) agreed
on common standards to maintain and operate Yaks in Europe
?
SO, if you have genuine concerns about RA registrations in
France or in Continental Europe, Didier, I would be more
than happy to help.
But acting as you do, contacting the Belgian CAA and
spreading false informations on the Yak-list is CERTAINLY
not going to help !
A constructive approach would be a better tactic.
Cheers,
Etienne.
Yak 52 "janie".
UK registered G-CBSS.
Maintained and operated under the supervision of the UK
CAA.
http://fanairplane.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=9763
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6867609
http://fanairplane.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=7325
http://www.airliners.net/photo/955944/L/
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=861131
http://www.abpic.co.uk/popup.php?q=1011615
http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/129003L.html
http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=01058969
http://tagazous.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=6195
http://tagazous.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=2901
Etc ... etc ... ! 
* Get instruction from an experienced Yak flight instructor
to avoid this :
http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2010/g-ak100612/pdf/g-ak100612.pdf
* Make sure your aircraft is properly maintained.
Obvious I know but some people think they will save a few
bucks by doing it on the cheap (flight instruction and
maintenance) ...
not a very good idea long term ...
___________________________________________________________
--------
http://www.flyforfun.be/?q=yaks
http://www.planecheck.com/eu/index.asp?ent=dv&id=6711
http://www.airshowactionphotography.com/san07/page1.html
http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1029467/L/Yakovlev-Yak-52/G-CBSS/Etienne-Verhellen/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346095#346095
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/groundingrussiandirective_814.doc
http://forums.matronics.com//files/groundinglithuaniandirective_146.doc
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rapport_bea_yak_ra_3332k_920.pdf
Forum -
FAQ,
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
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pilko2(at)btinternet.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:55 am Post subject: Yaks "issues" in Continental Europe. |
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....and don't ever forget that "they" ,from whatever agency in whatever country, monitor these lists too !
kp
--
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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Etienne Verhellen
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Yaks |
|
|
Dear Mr "yakplt(at)yahoo.com",
I do not know who you are.
I do not know who you have been talking to.
I do not know what you have been told about me.
You certainly do not know kow me.
So your "humble opinion" is based on what other people are telling you !!!!
Then you write that you are "very familiar with the tactics used to mislead and misrepresent the truth" !
Well ... in my "humble opinion", you are probably not as smart as you think you are ! Sorry.
Best Regards, Etienne VERHELLEN.
PS : Monsieur Didier BLOUZARD raises an issue on the Yak-list and mentions my name. Then he seems suprised and offended when I post
a reply !
Sorry mate, but if you do not want to read my answers, do not make false statements about me.
If you cannot accept different views on an issue you are raising on the Yak-list, just STOP posting !
Having said that, I feel this discussion is going nowhere and I suggest we just leave it there. Cheers.
_____________________________________________________________
| yakplt(at)yahoo.com wrote: | Mr. Verhellen,
Having talked to quite a number of pilots that have been subject to the recent groundings in that area, all of which have stated that you have been involved in bringing "your version" of certain information to the attention of the CAA to where they (the CAA) felt that they had to take action.
I agree that in the strict definition of the word, "responsible" is probably not the best word to use. On the other hand, "catalyst" most definitely is.
The rest of your posting is couched in phrases and terms that are in fact EXACTLY accurate (as far as they go anyway), but are incomplete in spelling out the full story.
The bottom line is that in most cases when dealing with official agencies that control aircraft in ANY country, the best advice is to "LET SLEEPING DOGS LIE". You decided to ignore that old and sage advice, and beat very hard on the table until the agency in question took action that you fully expected and had in mind as a goal. Can I prove that here and now? No, not easily, and you fully well know that too. So I will have to register that comment by saying: "This is true in my humble opinion".
I've been involved with email and the ARPA/DARPA/MILNET since the early 1980's, and am very familiar with the tactics used to mislead and misrepresent the truth. Public postings (such as this forum) allow a person to totally twist reality in an attempt to gain public respect and recognition and it becomes next to impossible for the majority of readers to ever know "what really happened", or what the exact truth of the matter being discussed.
As lucky as folks are in the United States, (and a lot of other places as well), everyone is also aware that all it takes is one person with some kind of personal agenda to make things totally miserable for everyone else. That kind of thing is universal in nature. Of course people that do that kind of thing ALWAYS deny it.
I know the answer from you that this posting might generate, but keep one thing in mind... the readers on the Yak List are by and large, pretty darn smart. Our ego's are sometimes a little bit out of control (I speak for myself), but the IQ level is really up there.
Bottom Line: You're right, I am very lucky to live no where near you (excuse me, I mean Belgium) and own a YAK.
--- On Tue, 7/12/11, Etienne Verhellen <janie> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Etienne Verhellen <janie>
Subject: Yaks "issues" in Continental Europe.
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, July 12, 2011, 2:23 PM
"Etienne Verhellen" <janie>
Hi all !
Under a topic called "Yak-52 Fuel Tanks" (!!), on Jun 24,
2011,
Didier BLOUZARD from France wrote this :
"Etienne, Last week I was in a meeting with Belgium CAA and
they told us about your mails to them. you have succeeded in
grouding all the russian registered YAK in Belgium and
France and Netherland will probably follow the move. We all
thank you for your huge effort in telling everywhere that a
RAK YAK is more dangerous than the other registrations. The
result is in temporarily grouding. BRAVO. Now you can be
known as the man who grouded the YAK
We will remember that. Thanks again
Didier BLOUZARD"
A few remarks :
1. Didier, please read the title of the topic before
posting.
The title was "Yak-52 Fuel Tanks" but
unfortunately your post has
nothing to do with it.
Please start a new topic if you have problems
you would like to discuss
on the Yak-list.
2. You had a meeting with the Belgian CAA. Good for you !
3. I was NOT there. I do NOT know what the Belgian CAA told
you.
And I do NOT know what YOU told the Belgian
CAA.
But I can assure you I have never ashed them
to ground Yaks in
Belgium [Exclamation]
As you probably know, I fly a Yak in Belgium
myself
4. Nevertheless, you write that Russian registered Yaks
(RAxxxxK) have
been grounded in Belgium ... You write :
"Grounded in Belgium AND France AND
Netherland will probably
follow". A little bit of a
confusing statement to say the least :
* Grounded in Belgium AND France WITH Netherland to follow
the move
OR
* Grounded in Belgium WITH France AND the Netherland to
follow the move ?????
5. YOU then imply that I am responsable for this temporary
grounding !!?!!
-------------------------------
Come on Didier, let's be serious for a moment !
I want to make it clear to everyone reading the Yak-list
that :
1. as far as I am aware, Russian "registered" Yaks
(RAxxxxK) have not
been grounded in Belgium. I have not seen any
document/letter issued
by the Belgian CAA stating what you write
Didier. So please, before
posting in the future, make sure what you
write is correct instead
of spreading harmlful rumours.
2. Finally, unlike yourself I do not meet with the Belgian
CAA and
(unfortunately ! [Wink] ) I have
certainly no influence on their
decisions [Exclamation]
There are indeed issues with RA registrations in
Continental Europe,
especially following a few fatal accidents in France :
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=121933
http://paris-ile-de-france.france3.fr/info/crash-d-un-avion-deux-morts-68527285.html?onglet=videos&id-video=vanv_CRASH_AVION_TOU_1407653_00YJMIIP_250420111808_F3
http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf
http://www.lecharpeblanche.fr/2011/04/25/deux-morts-dans-le-crash-dun-yak-52/
For info, the UK CAA has established a framework to legally
operate and maintain Yaks.
I have attached the 2 letters from the UK CAA explaining
why RA (and LY)registrations were grounded in the UK. In a
nutshell, Yakovlev aircraft DO NOT meet the requirements
applicable to civil aircraft certification that would allow
a Standard Certificate of Airworthiness to be issued
according to the provisions of Article 33 of the ICAO
Convention (Annex 6) with respect to the mutual
acceptability of such certificates within any ICAO
Contracting State. That's why Yaks are EXPERIMENTAL in the
States.
They are lucky in the US of A.
We have to put up with non uniformed "rules" and
incompetent CAAs in Europe !
As you know Didier, Yaks have been grounded in France
before, as you can read on page 11 of this report :
http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf
Yakovlev aircraft were grounded in France in February 2002
because they were not "civilian certified" ... etc.
"En France, les avions de construction russes (Yak 12, 50,
52, 54, 55 et Sukhoï 26, 29 et 31) ont été
interdits de vol en février 2002 par la Direction
Générale del’Aviation Civile (DGAC) car ils
n'étaient pas immatriculés sur un registre civil et
parce que leur régime de certification ne pouvait être
déterminé clairement".
YOU did not write BRAVO to the Yak-list to congratulate me
then ! [Rolling Eyes]
Also read the conclusion ( in French !) on page 19 of this
report :
http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/ra-k080504/pdf/ra-k080504.pdf
The French CAA and EASA should take appropriate measures !
"La DGAC et l’EASA devraient clarifier la situation
et prendre, en conséquence, les dispositions
nécessaires".
That's exactly what I wrote in this article :
http://www.emagazine.flightinternational.com/1Z4dd63f96463e4012.cde/page/47
Isn't it time national aviation authorities (EASA ?) agreed
on common standards to maintain and operate Yaks in Europe
?
SO, if you have genuine concerns about RA registrations in
France or in Continental Europe, Didier, I would be more
than happy to help.
But acting as you do, contacting the Belgian CAA and
spreading false informations on the Yak-list is CERTAINLY
not going to help !
A constructive approach would be a better tactic.
Cheers,
Etienne.
Yak 52 "janie".
UK registered G-CBSS.
Maintained and operated under the supervision of the UK
CAA.
http://fanairplane.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=9763
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6867609
http://fanairplane.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=7325
http://www.airliners.net/photo/955944/L/
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=861131
http://www.abpic.co.uk/popup.php?q=1011615
http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/129003L.html
http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=01058969
http://tagazous.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=6195
http://tagazous.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=2901
Etc ... etc ... !
* Get instruction from an experienced Yak flight instructor
to avoid this :
http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2010/g-ak100612/pdf/g-ak100612.pdf
* Make sure your aircraft is properly maintained.
Obvious I know but some people think they will save a few
bucks by doing it on the cheap (flight instruction and
maintenance) ...
not a very good idea long term ...
___________________________________________________________
--------
http://www.flyforfun.be/?q=yaks
http://www.planecheck.com/eu/index.asp?ent=dv&id=6711
http://www.airshowactionphotography.com/san07/page1.html
http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1029467/L/Yakovlev-Yak-52/G-CBSS/Etienne-Verhellen/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346095#346095
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/groundingrussiandirective_814.doc
http://forums.matronics.com//files/groundinglithuaniandirective_146.doc
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rapport_bea_yak_ra_3332k_920.pdf
Forum -
FAQ,
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
|
|
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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