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stickandrudder1(at)comcas
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 Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:52 pm Post subject: More FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt)? |
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Bob, a number of manufacturers state in their installation manuals (Garmin - GTN 650, PS Engineering – PS9000EX) that the use of push-pull circuit breakers is required, and that the breakers “be readily accessible to the pilot.” Based on your recommendation I intend to use fuses, for simplicity and cost. What’s your view on the matter? I’m reluctant to go against a manufacturer’s recommendation/requirement, but don’t want to do it blindly either.
As long as I’m asking, what’s your view on the VPX-PRO? I was initially attracted to it, but thought better of it for a number of reasons (much higher cost than fuses, support issues if Vertical Power goes away, electronic interface to reset an ECB (i.e. complexity?), single power bus, etc.). Plus, I’n not sure if the added benefits of their systems exceed the negatives. I’d be interested in your opinion.
[quote][b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:55 pm Post subject: More FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt)? |
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At 08:48 PM 7/30/2011, you wrote:
| Quote: | | Bob, a number of manufacturers state in their installation manuals (Garmin - GTN 650, PS Engineering – PS9000EX) that the use of push-pull circuit breakers is required, and that the breakers “be readily accessible to the pilot.” Based on your recommendation I intend to use fuses, for simplicity and cost. What’s your view on the matter? I’m reluctant to go against a manufacturer’s recommendation/requirement, but don’t want to do it blindly either. |
Black box designers are not systems designers.
Further, their products are generally tested
to meet performance and environmental specifications
that are never called upon to 'test the efficacy
of protection for power feeders.' In other
words, it's none of their business. If their
devices were being installed in an airplane
fitted with a VP system . . . or an airplane
like the Eclipse, there are no pullable
breakers.
Do these same folks insist on an Avionics
Master Switch?
Bottom line is that the authors of their
installation manuals are more lawyer than
engineer.
| Quote: |
As long as I’m asking, what’s your view on the VPX-PRO? I was initially attracted to it, but thought better of it for a number of reasons (much higher cost than fuses, support issues if Vertical Power goes away, electronic interface to reset an ECB (i.e. complexity?), single power bus, etc.). Plus, I’n not sure if the added benefits of their systems exceed the negatives. I’d be interested in your opinion. |
What is your return on investment? Lighter
airplane, faster airplane, lower fuel
consumption? Yes, lots of nice nic-nacs
but are you a PILOT or someone who would
rather just be along for a nice ride?
If you have a fuse/breaker/switch system,
you know where every part comes from and what
spares will cost you for repairs. If the VP
system gets a cold, your airplane is down
while the factory repairs it. It uses software
you didn't write, parts you didn't buy and
couldn't replace even if you had them . . .
'cause you don't understand it.
I just don't see that the VP products are
in synchronization for why we choose to
built our own airplanes as opposed to paying
factory prices. Certainly cost/performance
ratio is a strong driver and I don't see
how a VP product fits that recipe for success.
Bob . . . [quote][b]
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JLuckey(at)pacbell.net
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| Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:57 pm Post subject: More FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt)? |
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I’ve been fascinated w/ the VP product line since it came out. As an electrical engineer I think it is a really cool way to skin the Power Distribution cat but no matter how cool, I still don’t want one in my airplane. It seems like there is a lot of complexity involved to accomplish a relatively simple mission – safe & reliable power distribution & control – something we’ve been doing for decades w/ relatively inexpensive & proven components.
I’m all for trying to apply new technologies to solving old problems, but it’s not easy, and sometimes the old way is hard to beat.
It looks kind of like a solution looking for a problem and it seems to put all of your electrical eggs in one basket. Like Bob says, if the system gets sick, it must come out – thus grounding (electrical pun intended;) your airplane - while the system travels back and forth to the factory for repair.
I think that you probably get a lot of bang but you also put up a lot of bucks – I just don’t see the value – but then again I’m capable of designing & building my own system. Someone without that skill set may see it differently.
I would like to hear from someone who is knowledgeable about VP’s features/benefits discuss why they think those system are better, stronger, faster. I might learn something.
-Jeff
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 22:50
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: More FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt)?
At 08:48 PM 7/30/2011, you wrote:
Bob, a number of manufacturers state in their installation manuals (Garmin - GTN 650, PS Engineering – PS9000EX) that the use of push-pull circuit breakers is required, and that the breakers “be readily accessible to the pilot.” Based on your recommendation I intend to use fuses, for simplicity and cost. What’s your view on the matter? I’m reluctant to go against a manufacturer’s recommendation/requirement, but don’t want to do it blindly either.
Black box designers are not systems designers.
Further, their products are generally tested
to meet performance and environmental specifications
that are never called upon to 'test the efficacy
of protection for power feeders.' In other
words, it's none of their business. If their
devices were being installed in an airplane
fitted with a VP system . . . or an airplane
like the Eclipse, there are no pullable
breakers.
Do these same folks insist on an Avionics
Master Switch?
Bottom line is that the authors of their
installation manuals are more lawyer than
engineer.
As long as I’m asking, what’s your view on the VPX-PRO? I was initially attracted to it, but thought better of it for a number of reasons (much higher cost than fuses, support issues if Vertical Power goes away, electronic interface to reset an ECB (i.e. complexity?), single power bus, etc.). Plus, I’n not sure if the added benefits of their systems exceed the negatives. I’d be interested in your opinion.
What is your return on investment? Lighter
airplane, faster airplane, lower fuel
consumption? Yes, lots of nice nic-nacs
but are you a PILOT or someone who would
rather just be along for a nice ride?
If you have a fuse/breaker/switch system,
you know where every part comes from and what
spares will cost you for repairs. If the VP
system gets a cold, your airplane is down
while the factory repairs it. It uses software
you didn't write, parts you didn't buy and
couldn't replace even if you had them . . .
'cause you don't understand it.
I just don't see that the VP products are
in synchronization for why we choose to
built our own airplanes as opposed to paying
factory prices. Certainly cost/performance
ratio is a strong driver and I don't see
how a VP product fits that recipe for success.
Bob . . . | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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cjay
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: More FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt)? |
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"If you have a fuse/breaker/switch system,
you know where every part comes from and what
spares will cost you for repairs. If the VP
system gets a cold, your airplane is down
while the factory repairs it. It uses software
you didn't write, parts you didn't buy and
couldn't replace even if you had them . . .
'cause you don't understand it. "
The VP system tells you exactly and precisely what device/avionics/electronic is surging, overloading, shorting, etc. Much more information than a fuse or breaker provides. Great system for monitoring, tweaking, and measuring. Never heard of a VP system going back to the factory, but I suppose it happens. What do you do when a radio/EFIS/autopilot goes bad if you don't send it back to the factory? Or maybe modern electronics violates your principle of why we choose to build our own plane? You must be flying with analogue/vacuum gauges.
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