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Oxygen systems and refilling

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saolesen(at)sirentel.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: Oxygen systems and refilling

I'm planning a trip out to Boise next month and have decided that a portable O2 system would be wise.  Any recommendations on systems would be appreciated.  Usage would be sporadic.



My home airport has no FBO and no way to refill an O2 bottle.  Is leasing a large single cylinder of O2 and self filling a viable way to go?  Given occassional usage, would it be smarter to send it to be refilled by an O2 supplier?  What does it cost to refill a 22 cu ft bottle?



Sheldon Olesen

N475PV. 292 hrs

 

Sent from my iPad

Jim Berry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Oxygen systems and refilling

While leasing a large cylinder is certainly viable, it is probably not cost effective for only occasional use. I leased two 300 cu ft cylinders for 10 years, and with the cost of the transfill hose and pressure gage, I have about $800 invested. I did it for the convenience, not to save money.



Jim Berry

N15JB

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:11 am Post subject: Oxygen systems and refilling

Go to your local welding supply house or a medical equip supplier.  O2 should be less expensive from the welder supply house.   



Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 24, 2011, at 10:42 AM, Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I'm planning a trip out to Boise next month and have decided that a portable O2 system would be wise.  Any recommendations on systems would be appreciated.  Usage would be sporadic.

 

 My home airport has no FBO and no way to refill an O2 bottle.  Is leasing a large single cylinder of O2 and self filling a viable way to go?  Given occassional usage, would it be smarter to send it to be refilled by an O2 supplier?  What does it cost to refill a 22 cu ft bottle?

 

 Sheldon Olesen

 N475PV. 292 hrs

 

 Sent from my iPad

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:26 am Post subject: Oxygen systems and refilling

I'd go for a nice system that is pulse demand if you plan to use

it a lot.  The big catch is that unless you have a demand

system, there is quite a bit of waste of O2.  Even the balloon

"conserving" cannulas are big wasters.  My demand system by

Precise Flight is supposed to be about 3x more efficient. The

Mountain High pulse systems are even better yet by a bunch.

The big issue is that even with my system, I can't plan a

trip to say, Oregon, without planning to fill my O2 if I

want to use oxygen for 4 people for a long amount of time.

A 3x increase in efficiency can make the difference between

spending $35-50 to fill at the remote airport.  Filling my

own probably costs me $10 or less, but requires a big cylinder

lease and some hardware.  If you're only a very occasional

user, I'd just buy a real good system and pay someone

to fill it.  For me, I already owned the large cylinders

to fill from so it wasn't a big deal.  If you don't

buy/lease at least 2 of the large cylinders, it won't

give you a very full efficient fill, either....3 is even

better.  So the investment to get a good self-fill

system isn't nil....that's why I'd just probably recommend

for the occasional user even, buying a very nice system

like Mountain High, so that you operate as efficiently

as possible and don't need to fill as often.



BTW: If you get a good deal from a local gas supplier,

filling your small bottle should be maybe $20 or so

I'd think.  FBO's will likely charge at least $35.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 8/24/2011 9:42 AM, Sheldon Olesen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Olesen<saolesen(at)sirentel.net>



 I'm planning a trip out to Boise next month and have decided that a

 portable O2 system would be wise.  Any recommendations on systems

 would be appreciated.  Usage would be sporadic.



 My home airport has no FBO and no way to refill an O2 bottle.  Is

 leasing a large single cylinder of O2 and self filling a viable way

 to go?  Given occassional usage, would it be smarter to send it to be

 refilled by an O2 supplier?  What does it cost to refill a 22 cu ft

 bottle?



 Sheldon Olesen N475PV. 292 hrs



 Sent from my iPad

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:52 am Post subject: Oxygen systems and refilling

I'm not sure what the leases are these days. I thought before

I had been paying $150 for 5 years or something like that,

per cylinder.  I spent only about $100-125 in transfill

hardware.  So unless leases have changed a lot, it shouldn't

take $800 to get set up for filling.  At the time, I

could have bought my OWN 2 large cylinders and owned them

for that kind of cash.   I used to have to do a lot of

this stuff because I owned or leased Argon, Helium, and

Oxygen cylinders for doing deep mixed-gas technical SCUBA

dives. I still own a 400cf Helium cylinder, and converted

4 of them to Oxygen for the hangar.  I haven't leased

for a while though.  I would figure that unless pricing

is vastly different, a guy should be able to get set

up for $500 or so on a lease.



Not sure what current market value is on cylinders, but

http://www.jandrweldingsupply.com/store/GasCylinders/LargeHighPressure.html



..this place shows 300cuft with CGA-540 valves for $362

each.  That seems like a great price.  So for someone

setting up a fill system in the hangar, I'd go for

about 3 of them, plus a fill hose.  Maybe $1200 or so

if you want to buy instead of lease.  Keep in mind that

the companies make it painful to buy sometimes, if they

don't fill locally....every time you want a fill they

may send it out for 2 weeks. If you lease, they just

swap with you.  Also, if you own, you pay for hydro

tests. If you lease, it's part of the lease.  So for

convenience, leasing is better.   I have 4 of them

in the hangar, and I go *years* between needing a

bottle filled.  So it's not too bad for me.



Jim's right though...convenience is really the driving

force behind doing it yourself. Unless you use a ton

of it, cost won't be less by D-I-Y.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive



On 8/24/2011 10:05 AM, Jim Berry wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 While leasing a large cylinder is certainly viable, it is probably

 not cost effective for only occasional use. I leased two 300 cu ft

 cylinders for 10 years, and with the cost of the transfill hose and

 pressure gage, I have about $800 invested. I did it for the

 convenience, not to save money.



 Jim Berry N15JB





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350441#350441

pmnewlon

Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Posts: 21

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:05 am Post subject: Oxygen systems and refilling

Depending on the shop, some scuba shops can fill pure O2. In Columbus, 'breathing air systems' on East Broad St. will fill them.



Be careful about doing your own fills - I am a 'training advocate' here.  As a long-time diver, I've actually seen the aftermath of an O2 tank explosion.  Pure O2 tanks are prepped, handled and filled much differently than lower PPO2 tanks.



Phil

-------------------------

Original Message:

From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net>

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Cc: 

Date: Wednesday, August 24 2011 10:59 AM

Subject: Oxygen systems and refilling




I'm planning a trip out to Boise next month and have decided that a portable O2 system would be wise.  Any recommendations on systems would be appreciated.  Usage would be sporadic.



My home airport has no FBO and no way to refill an O2 bottle.  Is leasing a large single cylinder of O2 and self filling a viable way to go?  Given occassional usage, would it be smarter to send it to be refilled by an O2 supplier?  What does it cost to refill a 22 cu ft bottle?



Sheldon Olesen

N475PV. 292 hrs

 

Sent from my iPad

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:55 am Post subject: Oxygen systems and refilling

Why not get a prescription for a medical O2 refill?

--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: Oxygen systems and refilling

There's no reason to get a prescription for medical O2.

It would probably cost you more anyway.

The fact is, at most sites, ALL of the O2 is filled

off of the exact same tap, be it welding, aviation, or

medical.  The main differences are in the handling, or

in some cases the filling.  For filling some varieties

they draw a vacuum on the cylinder before filling it.

Welding requires high purity O2, just as much as medical

does.  Moisture specs are different for aviation, but,

the same tap fills each, as they are all dry.  So

dealing with it by getting a prescription is just a

prescription for adding more cost and hassle.



And Phil is right...there are valid worries when filling

O2.  I've seen an O2 fire, and I've run a mixed gas

and O2/Nitrox filling station for a few years.  There

are 2 major things to consider....one is that everything

you fill with high O2 percentages should be cleaned

and have special lubes for O2 service.  The other is

that whenever you open a valve, you should do it

slowly. Adiabatic compression has very real effects on

temperature and the ability to ignite a fire.  So always

open a valve slowly.  If you do those things, there

really is very little to worry about.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 8/24/2011 11:45 AM, DLM wrote:

[quote] 



 Why not get a prescription for a medical O2 refill?

 --

jdriggs49(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: Oxygen systems and refilling

No reason for getting a Rx for oxygen. We get it delivered to the dental office I share with my daughter and it comes in the same tanks and from the same source as the welding oxygen I have at home. Same thing for nursing homes. Only very large hospitals get it delivered in liquid form. Doctor's office, nursing home, welding shops and FBOs ALL get the same thing. The only difference is the price you pay as a consumer. Been there. Done that. All the above.

[quote] From: dlm34077(at)q.com

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Oxygen systems and refilling

 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:45:24 -0700

 --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM" <dlm34077(at)q.com>

 Why not get a prescription for a medical O2 refill?

 --

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: Oxygen systems and refilling

I just purchase a system this year and it only cost me between $450 and

$500.  Don't remember the exact number.



1 Large Cylinder (Purchase)

1 Transfill

1 Dolly



I have a built in Mountain High system, so I think in the long run it will

work great for me. Can't tell yet since the system is so efficient. The

convenience of having one is more important to me.  I don't even start

worrying about the O2 level until it gets to 500 PSI.  I use the system on

every cross country flight, anytime above 10,000.  Living in Utah, that is

every cross country flight.....for the most part.  I have never had to fill

off station.  When I made my trip to southern Cal last year, with 4 soles on

board, on O2 for about 10 hours.....I only used half a tank.  What a great

system.....but very pricy.

Rene' Felker

N423CF

801-721-6080



--

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