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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: ? re: Radiator for 582 |
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Arty:
Stewart has made gauges for many, many years. They even supply gauges and oil coolers for certified aircraft. So, yes... Go for it. for it. And I'm sure you know as an experimental you can do this without any issues.
Barry
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 11:41 AM, TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com (thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]I fly a Talon - an ultralight-type E-LSA, powered by a 582. I need a new radiator. I've been told that it's not necessary to buy a new radiator from Rotax - that a car radiator will do every bit as well. Do any of you have any experience using a car radiator with a 582?
Also, I need to replace my Westach water temp gauge. Again, I've been told that you can buy a water temp gauge at an auto parts store and pay significantly less than for a Westach. Any thoughts?
Arty Trost
Sandy, Oregon
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/oshkosh/
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:02 pm Post subject: ? re: Radiator for 582 |
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A car radiator is too big for anything that travels faster than a PPC. What you want is the radiator from a Honda Sabre or Magna motorcycles. I've converted two 582 powered Kolb Mk III's and both work perfectly even in the Kansas heat. See the attached article I wrote for the newsletter of our local EAA chapter.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 10:41 AM, TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com (thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I fly a Talon - an ultralight-type E-LSA, powered by a 582. I need a new radiator. I've been told that it's not necessary to buy a new radiator from Rotax - that a car radiator will do every bit as well. Do any of you have any experience using a car radiator with a 582?
Also, I need to replace my Westach water temp gauge. Again, I've been told that you can buy a water temp gauge at an auto parts store and pay significantly less than for a Westach. Any thoughts?
Arty Trost
Sandy, Oregon
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/oshkosh/
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
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--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
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Arty Trost
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Sandy, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:23 am Post subject: ? re: Radiator for 582 |
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Roger, you say to pick up a "small used radiator."
How do you calculate how large/small a radiator needs to be? Rick Girard writes about looking for a motorcycle radiator of about 100 sq. in. in a tractor configuration. (Thanks, Rick, for sharing the detailed article.) I've got a pusher configuration, so the prop isn't a cooling factor.
Arty Trost
Sandy, OR
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/oshkosh/
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
From: Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 2:23 PM
Subject: ? re: Radiator for 582
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Arty,
The answer is yes and yes. Go to a junk yard and pick up a small used radiator. You can use any water temp gauge for the most part that was designed for that.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3ronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List" target="_blank">http://www.matron http://forums.ma &nbs//www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co==================
[quote][b]
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:33 am Post subject: ? re: Radiator for 582 |
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Arty:
This is one case where Bigger is Better.
Install as large a radiator as you can fit. If too large you can always block the vanes to increase the temps. If too small... Well, you are up the preventable creak without the paddle.
But, if you want to do the math, you will need to know the following:
How many BTU's the engine produces. You could always use the HP and divide it in half since most of the heat goes out the exhaust.
Then convert HP to BTU's - There are programs on the Web to do that. Then the simple rule of thumb is to take that and use 25% to 33% for the dissipation requirement of the radiator.
These and ANY numbers given are guess-ta-mates because of factors such as Air temp, Quality of Cowling & Baffling, Moisture in the air, type of coolant and coolant flow rate.
Here is a link - But, I'm betting it is more info than you want to know... http://www.overclockers.com/radiator-heat-dissipation-testing/
Just remember... Bigger is Better in THIS case.
Barry
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:20 AM, TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com (thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]Roger, you say to pick up a "small used radiator."
How do you calculate how large/small a radiator needs to be? Rick Girard writes about looking for a motorcycle radiator of about 100 sq. in. in a tractor configuration. (Thanks, Rick, for sharing the detailed article.) I've got a pusher configuration, so the prop isn't a cooling factor.
Arty Trost
Sandy, OR
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/oshkosh/
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
From: Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 2:23 PM
Subject: ? re: Radiator for 582
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Arty,
The answer is yes and yes. Go to a junk yard and pick up a small used radiator. You can use any water temp gauge for the most part that was designed for that.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home [url=tel:520-574-1080]520-574-1080[/url] TRY HOME FIRST
Cell [url=tel:520-349-7056]520-349-7056[/url]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3ronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List" target="_blank">http://www.matron http://forums.ma &nbs//www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co==================
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List |
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:38 am Post subject: ? re: Radiator for 582 |
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Arty, You misunderstood the point of my article which was about finding a suitable radiator for a 582 in a PUSHER configuration, specifically that the Rotax twin radiators are not suitable, IMHO, for that configuration. The pictures, both in the article and those included in the post show the Honda radiator used in a pusher configuration. There's one other consideration that might be of interest to you. The Honda Sabre / Magna radiator has a nice compact cooling fan and mounting frame that can often be had with the radiator, depending on the supplier. I've never had a reason to use it, but you might be interested if you operate at airports where you have long taxis or they are busy enough that you find yourself having to wait in line to take off. Nice to be able to just flip a switch and know you have sufficient airflow through the radiator to keep things within specs.
As for the bigger is better argument, well, hmmm. Bigger is more weight and most likely more drag, both anathema to aircraft. As I pointed out, going to a one piece radiator as opposed to a two piece is more efficient since the air goes through the radiator rather than around. In a single pass radiator of brass construction, 100 sq. in. of area is the minimum I would condider for a 582. I've had the opportunity to test it in 110 degree heat this summer in my Kolb Mk III and it kept everything within parameters during full power climbs of 6 minutes. From my home field, elevation 1270', that's a climb to 5000' in the Kolb. Since OAT generally goes down with altitude I have no reason to believe that longer climbs would cause any problems.
Rick
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 12:30 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Arty:
This is one case where Bigger is Better.
Install as large a radiator as you can fit. If too large you can always block the vanes to increase the temps. If too small... Well, you are up the preventable creak without the paddle.
But, if you want to do the math, you will need to know the following:
How many BTU's the engine produces. You could always use the HP and divide it in half since most of the heat goes out the exhaust.
Then convert HP to BTU's - There are programs on the Web to do that. Then the simple rule of thumb is to take that and use 25% to 33% for the dissipation requirement of the radiator.
These and ANY numbers given are guess-ta-mates because of factors such as Air temp, Quality of Cowling & Baffling, Moisture in the air, type of coolant and coolant flow rate.
Here is a link - But, I'm betting it is more info than you want to know... http://www.overclockers.com/radiator-heat-dissipation-testing/
Just remember... Bigger is Better in THIS case.
Barry
On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:20 AM, TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com (thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Roger, you say to pick up a "small used radiator."
How do you calculate how large/small a radiator needs to be? Rick Girard writes about looking for a motorcycle radiator of about 100 sq. in. in a tractor configuration. (Thanks, Rick, for sharing the detailed article.) I've got a pusher configuration, so the prop isn't a cooling factor.
Arty Trost
Sandy, OR
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/oshkosh/
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
From: Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 2:23 PM
Subject: ? re: Radiator for 582
--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>
Hi Arty,
The answer is yes and yes. Go to a junk yard and pick up a small used radiator. You can use any water temp gauge for the most part that was designed for that.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home [url=tel:520-574-1080]520-574-1080[/url] TRY HOME FIRST
Cell [url=tel:520-349-7056]520-349-7056[/url]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3ronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List" target="_blank">http://www.matron http://forums.ma &nbs//www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co==================
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RotaxEngines-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List |
|
_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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