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Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs

 
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rob(at)hyperion-ef.com
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:27 pm    Post subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs Reply with quote

[img]cid:image001.gif(at)01CC64BA.F01FC3D0[/img] <![endif]-->
I’ve encountered another one of those “minor” problems I have come to accept as normal with the factory’s step child, the Tri-Gear.

The diameter of the Landing Gear Frame is 1.55 inch (39.4 mm) and the opening in the spring that must hook onto it is 1.35 inch (34.3 mm). This seems to allow for either of two solutions, neither one particularly elegant. 1) use brute force to deform the hook in the spring, 2) cut off some of the end of the hook.

Comments and suggestions from those who have perhaps already dealt with this, or anyone else for that matter, would be greatly appreciated.


Best regards,

Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon


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max8992



Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:17 pm    Post subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs Reply with quote

[img]cid:image002.gif(at)01CC650F.172C8450[/img] <![endif]-->
Hi there,

Bought the mod71 and installed it last July. Fitted perfectly to the gear frame, so either the springs are not the right ones or your frame is wrong…

Cheers,
Max Cointe
Auxerre, France
Kit #560 3-gear 912ULS / 385 hours


De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Rob Housman
Envoyé : samedi 27 août 2011 22:24
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs

I’ve encountered another one of those “minor” problems I have come to accept as normal with the factory’s step child, the Tri-Gear.

The diameter of the Landing Gear Frame is 1.55 inch (39.4 mm) and the opening in the spring that must hook onto it is 1.35 inch (34.3 mm). This seems to allow for either of two solutions, neither one particularly elegant. 1) use brute force to deform the hook in the spring, 2) cut off some of the end of the hook.

Comments and suggestions from those who have perhaps already dealt with this, or anyone else for that matter, would be greatly appreciated.


Best regards,

Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon


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Max8992
Europa XS #560 F-PMLH
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rob(at)hyperion-ef.com
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:56 pm    Post subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs Reply with quote

[img]cid:image001.gif(at)01CC64C7.A264DB50[/img] <![endif]-->
Although it is usually not a good idea, because a drawing may not be to scale, I “verified” the diameter of the Landing Gear Frame as 39.4 mm by doing just that from Fig. 6 of the Mod.  This suggests that the spring is not quite right.  Using the same scale, the opening at the hook (on Fig. 6) is 38.1 mm, almost 4 mm greater than the actual spring I have, but still less than the diameter of the LGF.  I’ll allow for errors I may have made in scaling from Fig. 6 but is now looks like the factory may not have allowed much clearance when the springs were designed.

Soooo, shall I cut or bend?  Anyone?


Best regards,

Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon


From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Max Cointe
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 2:15 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs

Hi there,

Bought the mod71 and installed it last July. Fitted perfectly to the gear frame, so either the springs are not the right ones or your frame is wrong…

Cheers,
Max Cointe
Auxerre, France
Kit #560 3-gear 912ULS / 385 hours


De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) De la part de Rob Housman
Envoyé : samedi 27 août 2011 22:24
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Objet : Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs

I’ve encountered another one of those “minor” problems I have come to accept as normal with the factory’s step child, the Tri-Gear.

The diameter of the Landing Gear Frame is 1.55 inch (39.4 mm) and the opening in the spring that must hook onto it is 1.35 inch (34.3 mm). This seems to allow for either of two solutions, neither one particularly elegant. 1) use brute force to deform the hook in the spring, 2) cut off some of the end of the hook.

Comments and suggestions from those who have perhaps already dealt with this, or anyone else for that matter, would be greatly appreciated.


Best regards,

Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon


- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -
 

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g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:31 am    Post subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs Reply with quote

[img]cid:image002.gif(at)01CC656C.77C45290[/img] <![endif]-->
Rob

I have attached a copy of Mod 71 issue 3 for information.

The radius of the upper hook should be 38mm to fit the frame tube ( the lower is 32mm).

I am not aware of any batch of springs which have been out of tolerance. If yours are please let Europa know.


Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com



From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Sent: 27 August 2011 21:24
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs

I’ve encountered another one of those “minor” problems I have come to accept as normal with the factory’s step child, the Tri-Gear.

The diameter of the Landing Gear Frame is 1.55 inch (39.4 mm) and the opening in the spring that must hook onto it is 1.35 inch (34.3 mm). This seems to allow for either of two solutions, neither one particularly elegant. 1) use brute force to deform the hook in the spring, 2) cut off some of the end of the hook.

Comments and suggestions from those who have perhaps already dealt with this, or anyone else for that matter, would be greatly appreciated.


Best regards,

Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon


- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -
 

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rob(at)hyperion-ef.com
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:37 am    Post subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs Reply with quote

[img]cid:image001.gif(at)01CC655F.FE558DE0[/img] <![endif]-->
Thanks Ian.

The plot thickens. I am working from the May 2006 version of the Mod 71 document – THE ONE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE ON THE EUROPA WEB SITE. Just curious since you have already provided it, but other than getting the 2011 version from you, where would I have found it? I hope that this has nothing to do with that little disagreement we had with George III.

The dimensions in the latest version match the Landing Gear Frame I have installed although the current LGF is of a significantly different design. And now I know that /U+220538 (Fig. 6, May 2006) means 38 mm. My very slightly larger diameter (39.4 mm) is probably all explained by the powder coat applied by the factory which is apparently no longer done. I’ll make things go together per Jeff B’s suggestion, implemented in my case with a Dremel and an abrasive cut-off blade.

I’ll advise the folks in Kirkbymoorside about the opening in my springs.


Best regards,

Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon


From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 2:29 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs

Rob

I have attached a copy of Mod 71 issue 3 for information.

The radius of the upper hook should be 38mm to fit the frame tube ( the lower is 32mm).

I am not aware of any batch of springs which have been out of tolerance. If yours are please let Europa know.


Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com (g-iani(at)ntlworld.com)



From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Sent: 27 August 2011 21:24
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs

I’ve encountered another one of those “minor” problems I have come to accept as normal with the factory’s step child, the Tri-Gear.

The diameter of the Landing Gear Frame is 1.55 inch (39.4 mm) and the opening in the spring that must hook onto it is 1.35 inch (34.3 mm). This seems to allow for either of two solutions, neither one particularly elegant. 1) use brute force to deform the hook in the spring, 2) cut off some of the end of the hook.

Comments and suggestions from those who have perhaps already dealt with this, or anyone else for that matter, would be greatly appreciated.


Best regards,

Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon


- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -
 

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs Reply with quote

[img]cid:image002.gif(at)01CC65CA.1DF4E690[/img] <![endif]-->
Rob

At this moment I am the only source of issue 3. At Europa’s request (David Goddard said he was too busy) I had it approved by the LAA. I have passed the factory the master copy but as yet they have not got round to putting it up. Mod 77 (Push rod rudder drive) and Mod 78 (Glider wing fix) have gone up recently but the revised versions of 75 and 76 (which include the Dynon servos) are not up yet.

The opening for the tube to pass into the spring hook is a bit tight. It is perfectly OK to take off the inside corner to allow the tube in as Jeff B suggested.


Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:54 pm    Post subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs Reply with quote

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> [img]cid:008601cc65d5$1e1565e0(at)goldfishbk2xxe[/img][img]cid:008701cc65d5$1e17afd0(at)goldfishbk2xxe[/img] Photo E-mail [url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!136&type=5&authkey=KzlAF!wKhQk%24]View slideshow [/url]| [url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=downloadphotos&resid=2161856909618AA7!136&type=5&authkey=KzlAF!wKhQk%24]Download images [/url] Rob,
Attached is a drawing of how I round off my springs and a photo of how we keep the spring from grinding into the steel frame by using small bits of stainless.
Note that I install the springs with the openning forward. Please note the left and right hand wind requires you to place the springs so that they do not rub against the center tube.

The springs can be installed facing aft but the last snap in is a bit difficult unless the entire wheel well is open or you are very strong.

Forgive me that I do not have my tech article on how to install the springs any longer as folks were just not having problems and it went to archive somewhere. Bob Borger and Gary Leinberger may have photo's of us doing theirs if you ask..

Please round over the spring as per the drawing to make snapping the spring over the top tube less painful. You may do the lower part as well.

One indispensible tool is a piece of stainless cable with handles on both ends to snap the spring up and over the top. I have one of the guys standing on the wheel well and pull it up to snap in the spring over the upper tube. Then he bounces on the front until the 5/16 and 1/4 inch bolts fall out.
The other nice to have tool is a set of threaded rods with a couple of curved ends to help hold the gear up while I install, but rope or a strap works also...I just like steel to protect me from a rope brake or strap slip. It takes me with two helpers (for added weight), about 45 minutes to install the springs.


[url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!137&parid=2161856909618AA7!136&type=1&authkey=KzlAF!wKhQk%24][img]cid:008801cc65d5$1e17afd0(at)goldfishbk2xxe[/img][/url]

[url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!138&parid=2161856909618AA7!136&type=1&authkey=KzlAF!wKhQk%24][img]cid:008901cc65d5$1e1a20d0(at)goldfishbk2xxe[/img][/url]
Small pieces of stainless between the spring and frame glued in or just set in sealant will keep the spring from scratching up your frame and rusting later on. Even with an engine on you can see that putting a cable through the hook on the spring and pulling from above is an easy safe method to snap the spring in. Technique: I normally put the engine on to add weight when I am doing this operation alone. I put a strap around the gearbox and nose gear leg to pull the spring a bit to get the bolts to fall out then repeat.
Please use safety precautions so as not to injure yourself when stretching and installing the springs and you will find it is an easy install.


Regards,
Bud Yerly
Europa Tech Advisor
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
www.customflightcreations.com
(813) 653-4989



[quote] ---


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:11 am    Post subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs Reply with quote

[img]cid:image001.gif(at)01CC6629.9944B190[/img]
Bud

After I replied to the e-mail last night, I realised that Mod 71 issue 3 is, in fact, sitting on Andy Draper’s desk at the LAA. Andy has had it since May but, despite chasing, has yet to come back with the formal approval. The same applies to the revised mods 75 & 76.

I think it would be helpful if I added your notes to the Mod 71 documentation. If you are happy with this I will send you a revised draft in a few day. When you are happy I will pass to LAA for formal approval.

Out of interest, why was the forward, top, inboard corner of the stbd foot well removed in the attached picture?


Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:59 am    Post subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs Reply with quote

[img]cid:image001.gif(at)01CC6618.7F05B330[/img]
Thanks for the detailed reply.

In the May 2006 version of the Mod it looks like the openings face aft but in the 2011 version the opening is forward. I elected to use the latest version for guidance. The Landing Gear Frame in my kit has several additional members so there is not much room for the upper hooks to move in either direction - they are trapped between two narrowly spaced tubes.

In my case your other suggestions about getting the springs in place don’t apply since I am doing Mod 71 right after Mod 72, so the engine is on the floor and not in the way. I also eliminated most of the hassle getting the springs in place by removing the tie wires and the four bolts on the pillow blocks that are the pivot points for the nose gear arm. With the leg free to move a bit (still restrained by the safety cable) I could get the lower hooks in place with minimum fuss.

Of course, with the engine on the floor that leaves me to contemplate how to load the springs with sufficient force to remove the spacers.


Best regards,

Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon


From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 3:52 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CC6618.7F05B330[/img][img]cid:image003.jpg(at)01CC6618.7F05B330[/img]Photo E-mail
[url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!136&type=5&authkey=KzlAF!wKhQk%24]View slideshow [/url]| [url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=downloadphotos&resid=2161856909618AA7!136&type=5&authkey=KzlAF!wKhQk%24]Download images [/url]
Rob,

Attached is a drawing of how I round off my springs and a photo of how we keep the spring from grinding into the steel frame by using small bits of stainless.

Note that I install the springs with the openning forward. Please note the left and right hand wind requires you to place the springs so that they do not rub against the center tube.



The springs can be installed facing aft but the last snap in is a bit difficult unless the entire wheel well is open or you are very strong.



Forgive me that I do not have my tech article on how to install the springs any longer as folks were just not having problems and it went to archive somewhere. Bob Borger and Gary Leinberger may have photo's of us doing theirs if you ask..



Please round over the spring as per the drawing to make snapping the spring over the top tube less painful. You may do the lower part as well.



One indispensible tool is a piece of stainless cable with handles on both ends to snap the spring up and over the top. I have one of the guys standing on the wheel well and pull it up to snap in the spring over the upper tube. Then he bounces on the front until the 5/16 and 1/4 inch bolts fall out.

The other nice to have tool is a set of threaded rods with a couple of curved ends to help hold the gear up while I install, but rope or a strap works also...I just like steel to protect me from a rope brake or strap slip. It takes me with two helpers (for added weight), about 45 minutes to install the springs.





[url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!137&parid=2161856909618AA7!136&type=1&authkey=KzlAF!wKhQk%24][img]cid:image004.jpg(at)01CC6618.7F05B330[/img][/url]


[url=https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&resid=2161856909618AA7!138&parid=2161856909618AA7!136&type=1&authkey=KzlAF!wKhQk%24][img]cid:image005.jpg(at)01CC6618.7F05B330[/img][/url]

Small pieces of stainless between the spring and frame glued in or just set in sealant will keep the spring from scratching up your frame and rusting later on. Even with an engine on you can see that putting a cable through the hook on the spring and pulling from above is an easy safe method to snap the spring in. Technique: I normally put the engine on to add weight when I am doing this operation alone. I put a strap around the gearbox and nose gear leg to pull the spring a bit to get the bolts to fall out then repeat.

Please use safety precautions so as not to injure yourself when stretching and installing the springs and you will find it is an easy install.





Regards,

Bud Yerly
Europa Tech Advisor

Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
www.customflightcreations.com
(813) 653-4989






[quote]
---


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:17 pm    Post subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs Reply with quote

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Ian,
I am sure they are working as fast as they can.. I do not get into the loop on the finals of these mods as I am not the only person putting in changes. I would like to see the final issues sent to Andy if it is not too much trouble. Different folks are responsible for different mods so I am not privy to all the final touches until the Gods at the LAA pass judgment I'm afraid I just am too much of a maverick and "git 'er done", rather than mother may I.

The clearance was necessary for a Jason Parker Fuel injected Rotax and a specialized frame for a 50 amp alternator that belt drives off the rear of the crank shaft and the alternator bracket didn't quite fit... We measured three times and it just was a little too tight, so I needed another 1/2 inch. Those little compromises we make for clearances. By putting the alternator off a belt drive, the maintenance and access in the engine compartment is superb, but the frame is a proprietary frame, similar to the Rotax frame, but modified for clearances for the belt...

Regards,
Bud

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budyerly(at)msn.com
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:27 pm    Post subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs Reply with quote

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Rob,
There isn't much room but it is sufficient with the hooks forward in the 2011 (which I still haven't seen final) version which is how I do the mod. If you don't have the engine, make friends with three 200 lb. agile guys to spring things into action.
I am surprised that you don't leave the gear leg attached final as it is quite easy to snap the spring into place even working alone. As Bob Borger indicated in his email it takes a bit of rounding of the spring end, and a bit of a pull to get them in. One thing that was not forwarded though is I use a few 5/16 inch bolts to help lengthen the spring. Hopefully Bob's photo album shows that we took the time to prep and make sure the spring was dead straight.

I have an unfair advantage that I have done many of these and frankly miss what I consider is obvious, which is not.

Apologies for leaving that info out.

Bud Yerly


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g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:18 am    Post subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs Reply with quote

[img]cid:image001.gif(at)01CC6703.3B554AB0[/img]
Bud

Copy of Mod 75/3 attached to today’s e-mail to Rob.  Copy of Mod 71/3 with my Sunday e-mail.  Copy of Mod 76/3 attached here.  If you cannot find them let me know and I will send direct to you.  I will change Mod 71/3 to include rounding off the spring ends and using 5/16 bolts (rather than ¼).  I will send you a copy when it has been revised.

Thanks for the explanation of the foot well change.


Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours
Europa Club Mods Specialist
e-mail g-iani(at)ntlworld.com



From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
Sent: 29 August 2011 22:15
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs

Ian,

I am sure they are working as fast as they can.. I do not get into the loop on the finals of these mods as I am not the only person putting in changes. I would like to see the final issues sent to Andy if it is not too much trouble. Different folks are responsible for different mods so I am not privy to all the final touches until the Gods at the LAA pass judgment I'm afraid I just am too much of a maverick and "git 'er done", rather than mother may I.



The clearance was necessary for a Jason Parker Fuel injected Rotax and a specialized frame for a 50 amp alternator that belt drives off the rear of the crank shaft and the alternator bracket didn't quite fit... We measured three times and it just was a little too tight, so I needed another 1/2 inch. Those little compromises we make for clearances. By putting the alternator off a belt drive, the maintenance and access in the engine compartment is superb, but the frame is a proprietary frame, similar to the Rotax frame, but modified for clearances for the belt...



Regards,

Bud


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rob(at)hyperion-ef.com
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:22 am    Post subject: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs Reply with quote

[img]cid:image001.gif(at)01CC6669.D9098220[/img]
Thanks again, Bud.

What I had not indicated is that I had all of my landing gear hardware powder coated so I tried hard not to damage the integrity of the coating (unavoidable on the Landing Gear Frame), ergo, drop the gear leg and place the lower hooks with minimal damage. In retrospect, perhaps flexing of the gear legs during even normal landings will craze, or worse, the powder coating. Too late to worry about that.

I may try a long lever arm bolted to the LGF to assist in loading the springs in order to remove the spacers.


Best regards,

Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics soon


From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 2:25 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Mod 71 - Nose gear leg bungee, replacement with springs

Rob,

There isn't much room but it is sufficient with the hooks forward in the 2011 (which I still haven't seen final) version which is how I do the mod. If you don't have the engine, make friends with three 200 lb. agile guys to spring things into action.

I am surprised that you don't leave the gear leg attached final as it is quite easy to snap the spring into place even working alone. As Bob Borger indicated in his email it takes a bit of rounding of the spring end, and a bit of a pull to get them in. One thing that was not forwarded though is I use a few 5/16 inch bolts to help lengthen the spring. Hopefully Bob's photo album shows that we took the time to prep and make sure the spring was dead straight.



I have an unfair advantage that I have done many of these and frankly miss what I consider is obvious, which is not.



Apologies for leaving that info out.



Bud Yerly




[quote]
---


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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