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harley(at)AgelessWings.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:01 am Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

We need to get this out to the group ASAP:

Hi All,

I just found out about this very important survey regarding 

homebuilt aircraft. The FAA is concerned that the accident rate 

for homebuilts is double that of manufactured aircraft (12 

accidents per 100K hours w/MFR vs 25 accidents per 100K hours for 

homebuilts). This was reported in USA Today 8/29/11 which is how 

I found out about the survey. The article stated that the FAA is 

looking into placing more restrictions on the homebuilt community 

and the EAA convinced them to look at this survey before making 

any new rules.

Here is the link: http://www.eaa.org/news/2011/2011-08-18_survey.asp

Time is now the issue.



  Harley

__._,_.___

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:41 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

At 08:58 AM 8/30/2011, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  





We need to get this out to the group ASAP:

Hi All,

I just found out about this very important survey regarding 

homebuilt aircraft. The FAA is concerned that the accident rate for 

homebuilts is double that of manufactured aircraft (12 accidents per 

100K hours w/MFR vs 25 accidents per 100K hours for homebuilts). 

This was reported in USA Today 8/29/11 which is how I found out 

about the survey. The article stated that the FAA is looking into 

placing more restrictions on the homebuilt community and the EAA 

convinced them to look at this survey before making any new rules.

Here is the link: http://www.eaa.org/news/2011/2011-08-18_survey.asp

Time is now the issue.


	


    Hmmmm . . .  I'm wondering what the root causes

    were for the accidents and why anyone is led

    to believe that the "homebuilt" nature of the

    airplane is causation for the difference.



    I note further that questionair's interest

    in "modifications" did not touch on electrical

    systems. I also wonder where the accident study

    gets their numbers for total hours flown for

    the two classes of aircraft.



    Aside from entering recent experience numbers

    on a medical every two years, I don't recall

    that anyone asked me or tracked my flight

    hours . . . much less what kind of airplane

    I flew.



    Color me skeptical . . . like all agencies

    of government, this has the look and smell

    of expansion of organization at the expense

    of an individual liberty to assess and accept/

    reject certain risks.



    Exactly what is entered on this survey will

    have little or no effect on outcome. As one

    wise observer once suggested, "85% of all

    statistics are made up on the spot."  I

    fear that this is but another cloud of

    floobydust kicked up to distract from the

    real agenda.

   Bob . . .

harley(at)AgelessWings.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

 	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		           

         We need to get this out to the group ASAP:         

         Hi All,         

         I just found out about this very important survey regarding         homebuilt aircraft. The FAA is concerned that the accident rate         for homebuilts is double that of manufactured aircraft (12         accidents per 100K hours w/MFR vs 25 accidents per 100K hours         for homebuilts). This was reported in USA Today 8/29/11 which is         how I found out about the survey. The article stated that the         FAA is looking into placing more restrictions on the homebuilt         community and the EAA convinced them to look at this survey         before making any new rules.         

         Here is the link:         http://www.eaa.org/news/2011/2011-08-18_survey.asp         

         Time is now the issue.         

       	
       

          Hmmmm . . .  I'm wondering what the root causes       

          were for the accidents and why anyone is led       

          to believe that the "homebuilt" nature of the       

          airplane is causation for the difference.       

       

          I note further that questionair's interest       

          in "modifications" did not touch on electrical       

          systems. I also wonder where the accident study       

          gets their numbers for total hours flown for       

          the two classes of aircraft.       

       

          Aside from entering recent experience numbers       

          on a medical every two years, I don't recall       

          that anyone asked me or tracked my flight       

          hours . . . much less what kind of airplane       

          I flew.       

       

          Color me skeptical . . . like all agencies       

          of government, this has the look and smell       

          of expansion of organization at the expense       

          of an individual liberty to assess and accept/       

          reject certain risks.       

       

          Exactly what is entered on this survey will       

          have little or no effect on outcome. As one       

          wise observer once suggested, "85% of all       

          statistics are made up on the spot."  I       

          fear that this is but another cloud of       

          floobydust kicked up to distract from the       

          real agenda.       

       

       

         Bob . . . 

       

       

     	
     I had the same thoughts, Bob...I also am a bit skeptical...but it's     all we have at the moment!  So, I filled it out in the hope that the     results just MIGHT make some kind of impression on someone...I can't     do anything by myself...and I don't want anyone to restrict my     freedom of flying because I can't afford the fees/ 

     

     So thanks to the EAA for at least giving it a shot.  Even though     they are fighting our wonderful government, once in awhile things     get decided in our favor. 

     

     Harley

      [quote][b]

ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:56 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

I think it's pretty well studied and accepted that aircraft in the Experimental category do suffer a much higher accident rate than certificated aircraft. 



The cause of those increased accident rates is still being debated though. I see no hidden agenda on the part of the FAA to usurp more power or curtail the OBAM movement, unless we continue to ignore the problem.  Fortunately, we are not ignoring it. Ron Wanttaja recently wrote a number of high-quality articles for Kitplanes magazine investigating many aspects of this problem--if you're a subscriber, look for the "Safety Is No Accident" title.  This is actively being investigated by the EAA/FAA and interested parties.  

  

As for the survey, the FAA is probably simply trying to get better data. I started the survey but quit because it's really for those already flying experimental aircraft, and I'm not (still building).



 The reality is if the homebuilt community does not take action to reduce the accident rate, the FAA will take action. A single aircraft accident--not even fatal--always generates front page news in our local newspapers, and that's probably true for most reading this. The non-flying public doesn't like dangerous homebuilt airplanes and their rich, reckless pilots falling out of the skies and killing unsuspecting citizens. That's how it gets portrayed to Congress, who in turn tell the FAA to fix it, now.  Better we fix it ourselves.

   

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

  [quote] --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>

 



    Hmmmm . . .  I'm wondering what the root causes

    were for the accidents and why anyone is led

    to believe that the "homebuilt" nature of the

    airplane is causation for the difference.

 

    I note further that questionair's interest

    in "modifications" did not touch on electrical

    systems. I also wonder where the accident study

    gets their numbers for total hours flown for

    the two classes of aircraft.

 

    Aside from entering recent experience numbers

    on a medical every two years, I don't recall

    that anyone asked me or tracked my flight

    hours . . . much less what kind of airplane

    I flew.

 

    Color me skeptical . . . like all agencies

    of government, this has the look and smell

    of expansion of organization at the expense

    of an individual liberty to assess and accept/

    reject certain risks.

 

    Exactly what is entered on this survey will

    have little or no effect on outcome. As one

    wise observer once suggested, "85% of all

    statistics are made up on the spot."  I

    fear that this is but another cloud of

    floobydust kicked up to distract from the

    real agenda.

 

 

   Bob . . . 



 

 ====================================

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 ====================================

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

 

 

 

 



[b]

ainut(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:57 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

Kitplanes had a series of articles recently that showed accident numbers 

derived from the NTSB data.



David M.



Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



 At 08:58 AM 8/30/2011, you wrote:

> 

> <harley(at)agelesswings.com>

>

>

> We need to get this out to the group ASAP:

> Hi All,

> I just found out about this very important survey regarding homebuilt 

> aircraft. The FAA is concerned that the accident rate for homebuilts 

> is double that of manufactured aircraft (12 accidents per 100K hours 

> w/MFR vs 25 accidents per 100K hours for homebuilts). This was 

> reported in USA Today 8/29/11 which is how I found out about the 

> survey. The article stated that the FAA is looking into placing more 

> restrictions on the homebuilt community and the EAA convinced them to 

> look at this survey before making any new rules.

> Here is the link: http://www.eaa.org/news/2011/2011-08-18_survey.asp

> Time is now the issue.



    Hmmmm . . .  I'm wondering what the root causes

    were for the accidents and why anyone is led

    to believe that the "homebuilt" nature of the

    airplane is causation for the difference.



    I note further that questionair's interest

    in "modifications" did not touch on electrical

    systems. I also wonder where the accident study

    gets their numbers for total hours flown for

    the two classes of aircraft.



    Aside from entering recent experience numbers

    on a medical every two years, I don't recall

    that anyone asked me or tracked my flight

    hours . . . much less what kind of airplane

    I flew.



    Color me skeptical . . . like all agencies

    of government, this has the look and smell

    of expansion of organization at the expense

    of an individual liberty to assess and accept/

    reject certain risks.



    Exactly what is entered on this survey will

    have little or no effect on outcome. As one

    wise observer once suggested, "85% of all

    statistics are made up on the spot."  I

    fear that this is but another cloud of

    floobydust kicked up to distract from the

    real agenda.

   Bob . . .




	


-- 

If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid of Soros.



..democracy and a republic can function only in a firm partnership with morality and religion. -- John Adams.  Indeed.  Same should be said for ANY type of gubmnt

email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

Part of the issue with accident "rates" is that they are usually divided by hours flown.  After all, the number of accidents doesn't mean anything without some sort of context. Imagine two cases, one where 5 airplanes crash in a year, and the airplanes in that group flew 5000 hours.  The following year, 6 crash, but the group flew 7000 hours.  The number of accidents rose, but the accident rate per hour flown decreased. 



EAB aircraft are becoming more numerous, so the increase in accident occurrences may or may not actually be leading to a higher accident rate. Since the FAA has no idea how many hours we fly experimental airplanes (or most other light GA airplanes by that matter), they make a guess and hope for the best.  Since the number of hours flown is the denominator of most of these rates, then an increase in hours will decrease the accident rate.  The opposite is also true of course.  A good survey could make that guess more accurate, which will therefore improve the accuracy of the rates.  If they are underestimating our hours, then the rates will improve even if the total number of accidents per year does not decrease.  I don't know if this survey will serve that purpose, since I haven't taken it.  I'm also not flying an experimental airplane currently.

 



On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Ralph Finch <ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com (ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] I think it's pretty well studied and accepted that aircraft in the Experimental category do suffer a much higher accident rate than certificated aircraft. 



The cause of those increased accident rates is still being debated though. I see no hidden agenda on the part of the FAA to usurp more power or curtail the OBAM movement, unless we continue to ignore the problem.  Fortunately, we are not ignoring it. Ron Wanttaja recently wrote a number of high-quality articles for Kitplanes magazine investigating many aspects of this problem--if you're a subscriber, look for the "Safety Is No Accident" title.  This is actively being investigated by the EAA/FAA and interested parties.  

   

As for the survey, the FAA is probably simply trying to get better data. I started the survey but quit because it's really for those already flying experimental aircraft, and I'm not (still building).



  The reality is if the homebuilt community does not take action to reduce the accident rate, the FAA will take action. A single aircraft accident--not even fatal--always generates front page news in our local newspapers, and that's probably true for most reading this. The non-flying public doesn't like dangerous homebuilt airplanes and their rich, reckless pilots falling out of the skies and killing unsuspecting citizens. That's how it gets portrayed to Congress, who in turn tell the FAA to fix it, now.  Better we fix it ourselves.

    

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

   

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>

 



    Hmmmm . . .  I'm wondering what the root causes

    were for the accidents and why anyone is led

    to believe that the "homebuilt" nature of the

    airplane is causation for the difference.

 

    I note further that questionair's interest

    in "modifications" did not touch on electrical

    systems. I also wonder where the accident study

    gets their numbers for total hours flown for

    the two classes of aircraft.

 

    Aside from entering recent experience numbers

    on a medical every two years, I don't recall

    that anyone asked me or tracked my flight

    hours . . . much less what kind of airplane

    I flew.

 

    Color me skeptical . . . like all agencies

    of government, this has the look and smell

    of expansion of organization at the expense

    of an individual liberty to assess and accept/

    reject certain risks.

 

    Exactly what is entered on this survey will

    have little or no effect on outcome. As one

    wise observer once suggested, "85% of all

    statistics are made up on the spot."  I

    fear that this is but another cloud of

    floobydust kicked up to distract from the

    real agenda.

 

 

   Bob . . . 



 

 ====================================

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ====================================

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

 

 

 

 



	


   	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




[b]

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:47 am Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

I completed mine.  No problem.



On 8/30/2011 9:58 AM, Harley wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   





 We need to get this out to the group ASAP:

 Hi All,

 I just found out about this very important survey regarding homebuilt 

 aircraft. The FAA is concerned that the accident rate for homebuilts 

 is double that of manufactured aircraft (12 accidents per 100K hours 

 w/MFR vs 25 accidents per 100K hours for homebuilts). This was 

 reported in USA Today 8/29/11 which is how I found out about the 

 survey. The article stated that the FAA is looking into placing more 

 restrictions on the homebuilt community and the EAA convinced them to 

 look at this survey before making any new rules.

 Here is the link: http://www.eaa.org/news/2011/2011-08-18_survey.asp

 Time is now the issue.



  Harley

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

Harley...don't get excited. I also note that you have posted these..."run in circles, scream and shout" viral notices on this website previously.



This sounds to me like a hoax or at least a waste of time. The FAA has all the tools needed to get any information without anyone here getting excited.



Hey, here's a good photo of Bob Nuckolls attached.

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

harley(at)AgelessWings.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:58 am Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

Morning, Eric...

         

         Harley...don't get excited. 

         

       I never get excited...  

       

         I also note that you have posted these..."run in circles, scream         and shout" viral notices on this website previously.         

         

         I have?          I don't recall any ...unless you are talking about my telling         people to stay away from a couple of links that AVG marked as         having viruses. I know for a fact that many here don't update         their anti-virus software or even don't have any.  I often         receive emails after posting warnings like that thanking me for         pointing it out to them and stating that they just updated their         anti-virus software.  Just         trying to help. 

         

         This sounds to me like a hoax or at least a waste of time. 

         

       I'm not sure it's a waste of time...the         FAA is planning a number of new fees and restrictions to GA         pilots, and anything that anyone can do to let them know that         they are barking up the wrong tree and that there are other ways         to save money is good in my opinion.  And the EAA is the only         power we have. Tim LaDolce over in the canard aviators forum         sent me that (he also posted it in the forum)...so I posted it         here and on a couple of other aviation forums as well.  

       

         The FAA has all the tools needed to get any information without         anyone here getting excited.         

         

       Tools they continually change with         little regard for us guys...

       

         Hey, here's a good photo of Bob Nuckolls attached.         

         

       Why is he lying down (the photo was         rotated, in case you missed it)?               

         

         

       --------         Eric M. Jones         emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)       

     

     Harley

      [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:35 am Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Hey, here's a good photo of Bob Nuckolls attached. 



 Why is he lying down (the photo was rotated, in case you missed it)?  	


   Probably taken Sunday after a two day, 12-hour

   stand up presentation. Eric and I met at a weekend

   seminar about 6 years ago in Plymouth, MA.



   That was a weekend to remember! Missed connections

   going out. Arrived at motel after midnight. Slipped

   in shower and busted my butt. Delivered the presentation

   with a big bruise on my buns. Had a flight

   cancelled on the way back and got to spend the

   night in Detroit. Dropped a bag in the motel

   parking lot and broke two bottles of wire. AC

   in room didn't work so we played musical rooms

   until finding one suitable for getting some

   sleep about midnight. Had to be up at o-dark

   thirty to catch plane for Wichita.



   I wonder what I looked like when I got home!



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:49 am Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

Eric,

The FAA may have all the tools need to do a lot of things, but they are government sloths that can't figure anything out.  They have to hire people to actually do something.  The problem is that they won't hire anyone.  Instead, they will just simply ram rod new regulations without regard to the GA community and without doing their real homework.  If anybody has any problems with it, it's after the fact.

Here's an example of government inefficiency and ineptness. Remember the Casey Anthony trial down in Orlando?  Well, she was found not guilty, because the jury decided there simply wasn't enough evidence to find her guilty.  In other words, the prosecution should have never gone to trial.   They were hoping to snooker the jury into making an emotional decision.  After they lost, they were on TV congratulating each other for a great job done.  What great job?  They lost!  In the commercial world, they would have be considered flunkies!  Now the lead prosecutor is writing a book!  I bet you he won't mention his ineptness!  The FAA guys are the same way.

 

Henador Titzoff



From: Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net>

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:35  AM

Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31



--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)>



Harley...don't get excited. I also note that you have posted these.."run in circles, scream and shout" viral notices on this website previously.



This sounds to me like a hoax or at least a waste of time. The FAA has all the tools needed to get any information without anyone here getting excited.



Hey, here's a good photo of Bob Nuckolls attached.



--------

Eric M. Jones

www.PerihelionDesign.com

113 Brentwood Drive

Southbridge, MA 01550

(508) 764-2072

emjones(at)charter.net (emjones(at)charter.net)





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351089#351089





Attachments: 



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 [quote][b]

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:24 am Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

That was a weekend to remember! Missed connections

		  going out. Arrived at motel after midnight. Slipped

		  in shower and busted my butt. Delivered the presentation

		  with a big bruise on my buns. Had a flight

		  cancelled on the way back and got to spend the

		  night in Detroit. Dropped a bag in the motel

		  parking lot and broke two bottles of wire. AC

		  in room didn't work so we played musical rooms

		  until finding one suitable for getting some

		  sleep about midnight. Had to be up at o-dark

		  thirty to catch plane for Wichita.

		

		  I wonder what I looked like when I got home!

		

		  Bob . . . 



				Other than that. . .  Was it a good weekend?

â˜º



		Roger

winmail.dat

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ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:30 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

Henador,

 

Actually the FAA is trying to pick up the pieces and repair the damage from the criminally incompetent private sector. The homebuilders have all the tools they need to get the accident rate down, but being a bunch of private crooks they won’t do it.  The government has to step in to actually fix it. Instead of cooperating, the private sector just stonewalls and denies.

 

Here are some examples of private criminality and incompetence. Remember the Enron scandal in Texas, the Wall Street derivative trading, the owner-verified housing loans, the huge BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico they couldn’t stop for months?  Well, if that happened in government they wouldn’t get a promotion anymore. But in private, they get trillion-dollar bailouts, and $100 million bonuses!  Who needs to write a book with a bonus like that, huh?

 

Ralph Finch

 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador Titzoff

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 8:47 AM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

 

Eric,



 



The FAA may have all the tools need to do a lot of things, but they are government sloths that can't figure anything out.  They have to hire people to actually do something.  The problem is that they won't hire anyone.  Instead, they will just simply ram rod new regulations without regard to the GA community and without doing their real homework.  If anybody has any problems with it, it's after the fact.



 



Here's an example of government inefficiency and ineptness. Remember the Casey Anthony trial down in Orlando?  Well, she was found not guilty, because the jury decided there simply wasn't enough evidence to find her guilty.  In other words, the prosecution should have never gone to trial.  They were hoping to snooker the jury into making an emotional decision.  After they lost, they were on TV congratulating each other for a great job done.  What great job?  They lost!  In the commercial world, they would have be considered flunkies!  Now the lead prosecutor is writing a book!  I bet you he won't mention his ineptness!  The FAA guys are the same way.



 



Henador Titzoff



 

  [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:54 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

 	  Quote: 	
		  Who needs to write a book with a bonus like that, huh?

  

 Ralph Finch 	


   Let's give this one a rest folks. If you have

   specifics to discuss about FAA actions with

   respect to OBAM aviation, fine. But the

   sand and mud balls are being gathered up from

   far afield and have no direct bearing on helping

   folks on the List deal with a relevant bureaucracy

    . . . or build airplanes.



   Thanks!



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

mmayfield

Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 40
Location: NSW Central Coast, Australia

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

Unless you happen to live in Somalia, Government is here to stay. So the OBAM community has two choices: engage the regulator to its best advantage, or ignore it and reap the consequences.



It's not unreasonable for the regulator to seek more data to help it formulate policy. It's gonna make policies whether you like it or not, and the OBAM side is gonna come into it, whether it likes it or not too. There's no need to sell your soul in the process, but at least you can help steer it in the direction you want.

_________________
Mike

ainut(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

Why won't they just leave us alone?



David M.



mmayfield wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Unless you happen to live in Somalia, Government is here to stay. So the OBAM community has two choices: engage the regulator to its best advantage, or ignore it and reap the consequences.



 It's not unreasonable for the regulator to seek more data to help it formulate policy. It's gonna make policies whether you like it or not, and the OBAM side is gonna come into it, whether it likes it or not too. There's no need to sell your soul in the process, but at least you can help steer it in the direction you want.



 --------

 Mike



 Your political opinions are noted. And ignored.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=351171#351171



    


	


-- 

If you're an American, just say NO to the Obamanation, to socialism, and get rid of Soros.



..democracy and a republic can function only in a firm partnership with morality and religion. -- John Adams.  Indeed.  Same should be said for ANY type of gubmnt

ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:45 pm Post subject: Homebuilt Survey Expires 8/31

Because when we fall out of the sky at the high rates we do, too often we hit someone or something on the ground. If we would just kill only ourselves and destroy only our own property....



RF



  On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 10:00 AM, David <ainut(at)knology.net (ainut(at)knology.net)> wrote:

[quote]  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: David <ainut(at)knology.net (ainut(at)knology.net)>

 

 Why won't they just leave us alone?

 

 David M.

 

 

[b]

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