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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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 Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:10 pm Post subject: Defective fuel pickup |
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This last week end we had a failure of the fuel pickup on one gas tank of FSII N582EF. After landing, one tank had approx 1.5 gallons left, the other tank was full. Disassembling the fuel lines, hoses and the pickup, it was discovered that the fuel pickup would not allow any gas to pass through it. This is the in-tank fuel filter that California Power Systems sells as part #7129, and Aircraft Spruce sells as #05-01031.
Further investigation revealed that this is not simply a fuel pickup, it is also a ball-check valve, and the ball was stuck. Taking the valve to the work bench and smacking the ball with a drift & hammer got it freed up, however I will be replacing it with a simple finger strainer type pickup, and the identical pickup from the other tank will be discarded and replaced with a simple finger strainer type pickup.
In my opinion, this is a non-airworthy design. There is no reason to have a ball check valve as part of a fuel pickup. I realize that not having a ball check valve in the system can allow the fuel to drain back downhill from the carbs into the gas tank, but that is why they sell fuel pumps. Had the flight lasted 30 minutes longer, the outcome probably would have been a media event.
The partially disassembled one is the one that stuck, I was trying to see if the ball check valve can be removed. Not readily. The other one is original.
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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:29 pm Post subject: Defective fuel pickup |
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Richard, I skipped the pickup filter idea. I take it you use a downward dip tube like I do,
Mine is a straight copper tube, cut at an angle at the end that extends to within 1/4 -1/2" of the bottom.
Any sludge, particles or water stays on the bottom of the tanks. I have yet to see any.
The top/dip tube design avoids any problems with leakage and possible tank splits promoted by a hole in the bottom.
My filter and pump are below the tanks. I have a small final filter just before the carb.
BB
MkIII, suzuki
On 29, Sep 2011, at 6:10 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
| Quote: |
This last week end we had a failure of the fuel pickup on one gas tank of FSII N582EF. After landing, one tank had approx 1.5 gallons left, the other tank was full. Disassembling the fuel lines, hoses and the pickup, it was discovered that the fuel pickup would not allow any gas to pass through it. This is the in-tank fuel filter that California Power Systems sells as part #7129, and Aircraft Spruce sells as #05-01031.
Further investigation revealed that this is not simply a fuel pickup, it is also a ball-check valve, and the ball was stuck. Taking the valve to the work bench and smacking the ball with a drift & hammer got it freed up, however I will be replacing it with a simple finger strainer type pickup, and the identical pickup from the other tank will be discarded and replaced with a simple finger strainer type pickup.
In my opinion, this is a non-airworthy design. There is no reason to have a ball check valve as part of a fuel pickup. I realize that not having a ball check valve in the system can allow the fuel to drain back downhill from the carbs into the gas tank, but that is why they sell fuel pumps. Had the flight lasted 30 minutes longer, the outcome probably would have been a media event.
The partially disassembled one is the one that stuck, I was trying to see if the ball check valve can be removed. Not readily. The other one is original.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:05 pm Post subject: Defective fuel pickup |
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BB,
Mine is very similar to yours except the filter is before both fuel pumps (in parallel). Never seen any crap or water in my filter or downstream thereof.
Thom
(sent from iPhone 4)
On Sep 29, 2011, at 6:27 PM, robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Richard, I skipped the pickup filter idea. I take it you use a downward dip tube like I do,
Mine is a straight copper tube, cut at an angle at the end that extends to within 1/4 -1/2" of the bottom.
Any sludge, particles or water stays on the bottom of the tanks. I have yet to see any.
The top/dip tube design avoids any problems with leakage and possible tank splits promoted by a hole in the bottom.
My filter and pump are below the tanks. I have a small final filter just before the carb.
BB
MkIII, suzuki
On 29, Sep 2011, at 6:10 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
>
> This last week end we had a failure of the fuel pickup on one gas tank of FSII N582EF. After landing, one tank had approx 1.5 gallons left, the other tank was full. Disassembling the fuel lines, hoses and the pickup, it was discovered that the fuel pickup would not allow any gas to pass through it. This is the in-tank fuel filter that California Power Systems sells as part #7129, and Aircraft Spruce sells as #05-01031.
>
> Further investigation revealed that this is not simply a fuel pickup, it is also a ball-check valve, and the ball was stuck. Taking the valve to the work bench and smacking the ball with a drift & hammer got it freed up, however I will be replacing it with a simple finger strainer type pickup, and the identical pickup from the other tank will be discarded and replaced with a simple finger strainer type pickup.
>
> In my opinion, this is a non-airworthy design. There is no reason to have a ball check valve as part of a fuel pickup. I realize that not having a ball check valve in the system can allow the fuel to drain back downhill from the carbs into the gas tank, but that is why they sell fuel pumps. Had the flight lasted 30 minutes longer, the outcome probably would have been a media event.
>
> The partially disassembled one is the one that stuck, I was trying to see if the ball check valve can be removed. Not readily. The other one is original.
>
> --------
> Richard Pike
> Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
> richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
> Kingsport, TN 3TN0
> Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
> Hebrews 11:1
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353561#353561
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1200766_large_128.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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elleryweld(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: Defective fuel pickup |
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I had the same problems in my first ultralight many years ago with only two 2.5 gallon tanks but it never left the neiborhood with so little gas onboard
I would never use any screen or check valve inside a fuel tank system in anything that flys I like a gascolator much better
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
--
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: Defective fuel pickup |
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Was surprised how small the mess was on the inlet screen. Very susceptible to blockage.
I pull out of the bottom of my tank through a standard aviation mesh finger strainer, then through the facet pump which is lower than the bottom of the tank, and up through the fuel filter and into the engine driven pump on my 912. Have pumped around 15,500 gals through that system in the last 3,100+ hours without a problem. Can't remember when I did it, but I pulled the finger strainer a thousand hours or so ago. Found some pretty interesting stuff living on the strainer. Makes me wonder how I was able to get that much trash through the fuel filler. 
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ellery Batchelder Jr
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:07 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Defective fuel pickup
I had the same problems in my first ultralight many years ago with only two 2.5 gallon tanks but it never left the neiborhood with so little gas onboard
I would never use any screen or check valve inside a fuel tank system in anything that flys I like a gascolator much better
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
--
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: Defective fuel pickup |
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At 09:06 PM 9/29/2011, Ellery Batchelder Jr wrote:
| Quote: | I had the same problems in my first ultralight many years ago with only two 2.5 gallon tanks but it never left the neiborhood with so little gas onboard
I would never use any screen or check valve inside a fuel tank system in anything that flys I like a gascolator much better |
I have a two check valves on my fuel tank vent. One lets air in at 1/2 psi during operation, the other lets air out at 6 psi so the tank doesn't balloon in the sunlight. Keeps the fuel fresh by limiting evaporation during storage. There is also a screen (not too fine) outside of the vent to keep bugs and such out.
At the bottom of the tank is a finger strainer made from a brass tube a couple of inches long with lots of drilled holes, pressed into the Dapco valve that threads into the bottom of the [aluminum] tank.
-Dana
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Welcome to the Federal Bureau for Reducing Bureaucracy!
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captainron1(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:03 am Post subject: Defective fuel pickup |
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John
I think the old adage where " I rather be lucky than good" proves itself yet again. I can tell you about my second flight in the terducktyle but then I may be banned even riding my Harley, suffice it to say I came back from a flight with only two nuts holding the c-430 motor mount and they were about 1/4 each threaded out, no locking nuts no nothing was between them and the tubes. It was the last time I ever let anyone work on that Ultralight, from then on it was only I and the damn thing was locked in the hanger. Yes the motor was canted about 30 degrees on the two remaining attach points. Could not see a thing behind but it did feel weird in the last 15 minutes of flight.
---- John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:
=============
Was surprised how small the mess was on the inlet screen. Very susceptible
to blockage.
I pull out of the bottom of my tank through a standard aviation mesh finger
strainer, then through the facet pump which is lower than the bottom of the
tank, and up through the fuel filter and into the engine driven pump on my
912. Have pumped around 15,500 gals through that system in the last 3,100+
hours without a problem. Can't remember when I did it, but I pulled the
finger strainer a thousand hours or so ago. Found some pretty interesting
stuff living on the strainer. Makes me wonder how I was able to get that
much trash through the fuel filler.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ellery Batchelder
Jr
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:07 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Defective fuel pickup
I had the same problems in my first ultralight many years ago with only two
2.5 gallon tanks but it never left the neiborhood with so little gas onboard
I would never use any screen or check valve inside a fuel tank system in
anything that flys I like a gascolator much better
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
--
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