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Advice from Gear-Heads... LOP [bcc][faked-from]

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blorber(at)southwestcirru
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:08 am Post subject: Advice from Gear-Heads... LOP [bcc][faked-from]

CloudCraft(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Their reason for running ROP was not about cylinder head temperature nor any 

of the usual heat or oil wash reasons: it was because of the low lead content 

in modern AvGas.



They saw a problem with valve guide lubrication that lead was intended to 

provide in these engines.

  



I'm not a metallurgist or engine rebuilder (I'm just barely a pilot  ) 
	


but, I would bet that the engines that still need the lead for valve 

guide lube have bigger needs.  If an engine has been overhauled or 

topped in the last ~ 10 (20?) years, it doesn't need the lead for 

lubrication.  At some point, even the air-cooled antiques that power 

these confounded machines received new valve guides that don't use the 

lead for lubrication.  As pointed out, the lead is purely octane boost.



God bless the old gear-heads that have been building and rebuilding 

these things since before I was born, but some have a built-in resistor 

to noticing there have been some changes since the 1960s.  One of the 

best (and informative) conversations I've had with anyone dealing with 

engines is when I toured Pacific Continental Engines with the owner John 

Jackson (818-781-4947) in Van Nuys.  John is a busy guy, so he doesn't 

spend a lot of time jawing, but he did explain to me the differences 

between the way his father (and other old gear-heads) did things, and 

the way they're done now.  We were talking specifically overhaul 

considerations - used to be you could mic something like a connecting 

rod and re-use it if it was in specs, now it's a mandatory replacement 

per the FAA.  His father's resistor basically forced him to hand the 

operation to John; he just couldn't see his way to replacing what, to 

him, was a perfectly good part.  Add in technology that makes the magic 

even tighter (I love that phrase), and John's dad was ready to throw in 

the towel.  Thank God he taught John the magic before departing the fix.



I'm not buying the APS "red box" hocus that is based on a Continental 

graph from when Toby was a pup.  Their logic contradicts itself when 

using this chart, thus making that part of their argument suspect.  The 

science is sound, however, and I can provide real-world data from a 

Continental IO-550 over multiple flights where LOP does amazing things 

for temps and ease of operation (give me a bit to format and post the 

data).  With almost 500 hours on this engine, I giggle like a 

school-girl every time I pull the plugs and read the serial numbers 

stamped into the face of the pistons like they are brand-spanking new.



One last observation, and back to the original question about backlash, 

is that all the LOP, ROP, props forward for landing, ground-feathering, 

taxi discussions in the world are worthless with the props turning.  The 

ONLY thing you can do to save an engine (and the rest of the airplane 

for that matter) has nothing to do with operating parameters.  It has 

everything to do with staying in the same zip code as the airplane (or, 

even better, being one or two zip codes ahead of the airplane) 

especially in the descent and landing.  Strive for a smooth, programmed 

reduction from cruise power at altitude to idle power on touchdown with 

the engine pulling the airplane at all times in between (geared and 

direct-drive).  Use your brain and the airplane to hit the spot, not the 

engines.  That's what keeps jugs and props attached to the engines.



Brock Lorber

702-510-7728

http://www.southwestcirrus.com/n400ch

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Therock24(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:40 am Post subject: Advice from Gear-Heads... LOP [bcc][faked-from]

In a message dated 5/24/2006 5:09:45 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  

blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com writes:




<blorber(at)southwestcirrus.com>



CloudCraft(at)aol.com  wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Their reason for running ROP was not about cylinder head  temperature nor 

any 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  of the usual heat or oil wash reasons: it was  because of the low lead 

content 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  in modern AvGas.



They  saw a problem with valve guide lubrication that lead was intended to  

provide in these engines.

  



I'm not a  metallurgist or engine rebuilder (I'm just barely a pilot  ) 
	


but, I  would bet that the engines that still need the lead for valve 

guide lube  have bigger needs.  If an engine has been overhauled or 

topped in the  last ~ 10 (20?) years, it doesn't need the lead for 

lubrication.  At  some point, even the air-cooled antiques that power 

these confounded  machines received new valve guides that don't use the 

lead for  lubrication.  As pointed out, the lead is purely octane boost.



God  bless the old gear-heads that have been building and rebuilding 

these  things since before I was born, but some have a built-in resistor 

to  noticing there have been some changes since the 1960s.  One of the  

best (and informative) conversations I've had with anyone dealing with  

engines is when I toured Pacific Continental Engines with the owner John  

Jackson (818-781-4947) in Van Nuys.  John is a busy guy, so he  doesn't 

spend a lot of time jawing, but he did explain to me the  differences 

between the way his father (and other old gear-heads) did  things, and 

the way they're done now.  We were talking specifically  overhaul 

considerations - used to be you could mic something like a  connecting 

rod and re-use it if it was in specs, now it's a mandatory  replacement 

per the FAA.  His father's resistor basically forced him  to hand the 

operation to John; he just couldn't see his way to replacing  what, to 

him, was a perfectly good part.  Add in technology that  makes the magic 

even tighter (I love that phrase), and John's dad was  ready to throw in 

the towel.  Thank God he taught John the magic  before departing the fix.



I'm not buying the APS "red box" hocus that  is based on a Continental 

graph from when Toby was a pup.  Their  logic contradicts itself when 

using this chart, thus making that part of  their argument suspect.  The 

science is sound, however, and I can  provide real-world data from a 

Continental IO-550 over multiple flights  where LOP does amazing things 

for temps and ease of operation (give me a  bit to format and post the 

data).  With almost 500 hours on this  engine, I giggle like a 

school-girl every time I pull the plugs and read  the serial numbers 

stamped into the face of the pistons like they are  brand-spanking new.



One last observation, and back to the original  question about backlash, 

is that all the LOP, ROP, props forward for  landing, ground-feathering, 

taxi discussions in the world are worthless  with the props turning.  The 

ONLY thing you can do to save an engine  (and the rest of the airplane 

for that matter) has nothing to do with  operating parameters.  It has 

everything to do with staying in the  same zip code as the airplane (or, 

even better, being one or two zip codes  ahead of the airplane) 

especially in the descent and landing.  Strive  for a smooth, programmed 

reduction from cruise power at altitude to idle  power on touchdown with 

the engine pulling the airplane at all times in  between (geared and 

direct-drive).  Use your brain and the airplane  to hit the spot, not the 

engines.  That's what keeps jugs and props  attached to the engines.



Brock  Lorber

702-510-7728

http://www.southwestcirrus.com/n400ch





Great input Brock

 

Rocky Magee

Sierra Air Conditioning Inc.

4210 West Patrick  Lane

Las Vegas NV 89118

Office 702 798-1055 ex. 202

Mobile 702  498-7601



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