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Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear

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csdjbtexas(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:41 am Post subject: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear

I am trying to restore a damaged RV8A.  Nose gear leg is stuck in the engine mount, and I am thinking about heat application while it is in the hydraulic press.

 From my quick research online, the steel strength should not be affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of the melting point, or about 1000 deg F.  If I keep an IR thermometer on it during the attempt, and keep the temp below 800, I figure I am probably ok.  But for the purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 would be enough.

 Any metalurists on the list?  Funny things happen during that cooling down period.

 C Dominey

 csdjbtexas(at)live.com (csdjbtexas(at)live.com)

 		 	   		  

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denis.walsh(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:07 am Post subject: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear

I am not a metalologist and haven't played one.



But I have talked to Harmon Lange, the builder of those legs.  Go to his web site or call him on the phone.  he has all the answers, and can sell you a new leg or straighten your old one, if feasible.

http://www.langair.com/



On Oct 21, 2011, at 5:38 , cliff dominey wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I am trying to restore a damaged RV8A.  Nose gear leg is stuck in the engine mount, and I am thinking about heat application while it is in the hydraulic press.

From my quick research online, the steel strength should not be affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of the melting point, or about 1000 deg F.  If I keep an IR thermometer on it during the attempt, and keep the temp below 800, I figure I am probably ok.  But for the purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 would be enough.

Any metalurists on the list?  Funny things happen during that cooling down period.

C Dominey

csdjbtexas(at)live.com (csdjbtexas(at)live.com)



 	  Quote: 	
		  



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chaskuss(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:20 am Post subject: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear

Cliff

 The gear legs are heat treated. Re-heating will destroy that. Best to order new parts.

Charlie



--- On Fri, 10/21/11, cliff dominey <csdjbtexas(at)live.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: cliff dominey <csdjbtexas(at)live.com>

Subject: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, October 21, 2011, 7:38 AM



    I am trying to restore a damaged RV8A.  Nose gear leg is stuck in the engine mount, and I am thinking about heat application while it is in the hydraulic press.

 From my quick research online, the steel strength should not be affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of the melting point, or about 1000 deg F.  If I keep an IR thermometer on it during the attempt, and keep the temp below 800, I figure I am probably ok.  But for the purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 would be enough.

 Any metalurists on the list?  Funny things happen during that cooling down period.

 C Dominey

 [url=/mc/compose?to=csdjbtexas(at)live.com]csdjbtexas(at)live.com[/url]

 		 	   		  

   	  Quote: 	
		  	




	
 [quote][b]

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d-burton(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:41 am Post subject: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear

This is a much more complex problem then just the  melting point of steel.  The atoms in steels have been specifically  arranged during manufacturing to produce the desired mechanical  properties.  There are many complex structures in the steel at an atomic  level.  You can influence these properties by applying both heat or  cold.  The sinking of the Titanic is an example of this.  The atomic  structure of the steel (and its strength) was altered by the cold water  temperatures causing the rivets to fail at a fraction of their room temperature  strength.  This was an unknown property at the time.  While this  property is transitory and changes with temperature, the altering of the atomic  structure of the material by heat, impact or deformation is permanent until  altered by the application of these inputs again.  

  

 Where this can bite you badly is by inadvertently  heating a localized area of a larger piece.  The entire part doesn't get  very hot, but some small part of it does.  The large part can act as a heat  sink causing rapid cooling of the small area that has been heated.  This is  exactly like quenching a knife blade to make it hard enough to allow it to hold  an edge.  This hard and brittle localized area in an larger area of softer  material will cause stresses to concentrate there and cause cracking.   

  

 This was identified as a huge problem with  untrained people welding hitches onto vehicles which subsequently  failed at weld/frame junction (not the weld itself) that it was  outlawed.  You may have noticed that  aftermarket hitches are all bolted on now.  Only a certified welder is  allowed to weld a hitch on and most insurance companies are not OK with  allowing even them to do this.

  

 You can probably carefully warm the engine mount  enough to help loosen the gear leg without danger.  You probably shouldn't  apply heat to the leg.  

  

 Striking the parts can help to loosen the bond  between them.  You must be careful to use a soft non-ferrous hammer or  drift so you don't damage the parts.  

  

 The bond that is preventing you from separating  the two parts is frequently caused by corrosion products, so using a  penetrating oil can be useful.  Use one safe for steel.  Use  a lot, over a long period of time.  It make take quite a while for the  oil to wick through the entire joint.

  

 I am suspicious that in your case the engine  mount has been deformed by the impact that caused the damage to the  aircraft and this is preventing the gear leg from being removed.  The  impact to the engine mount may have done other damage to it and having the  mount inspected might be wise.

  

 I'm sure you are like me and want to do this  yourself.  I suspect that if you get this problem to the engine mount  manufacturer they can solve it for you.  It might involve removing a  section of the mount and replacing it.  They can do this without damaging  the gear leg.  Finding out at this point that the mount is bent or cracked  would be preferable to having problems later...

  

 Good luck,

 David

  

(Former  material scientist and accident investigator)



    [quote][b]

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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear

On 10/21/2011 06:38 AM, cliff dominey wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		                         I am trying to restore a             damaged RV8A.  Nose gear leg is stuck in the engine mount,             and I am thinking about heat application while it is in the             hydraulic press.

         From my quick research online,             the steel strength should not be affected so long as it is             not heated beyond 40% of the melting point, or about 1000             deg F.  If I keep an IR thermometer on it during the             attempt, and keep the temp below 800, I figure I am probably             ok.  But for the purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500             would be enough.

         Any metalurists on the list?              Funny things happen during that cooling down period.

         C Dominey

         csdjbtexas(at)live.com (csdjbtexas(at)live.com)

       

       

     	
     If it's rust that's causing your problem, try googling 'acetone and     automatic transmission fluid'. 

     

     Charlie

     (It works for me; I now keep a pump-oil can handy when working on     old equipment.)

      [quote][b]

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gyoung

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 211
Location: Republic of Texas

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:35 am Post subject: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear

Since you have the mount off try using your rivet gun with a flush set to tap on the end of the gear leg. It doesn’t have to be real strong – about the same as for AN3 rivets. It works like magic to install and remove the close tolerance spar bolts where brute force fails. It’s a good idea to prep it with penetrating oil like Kroil. It’s excellent but hard to find.

 

Greg Young

 

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England

Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 12:54 PM

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear

 

On 10/21/2011 06:38 AM, cliff dominey wrote: 

I am trying to restore a damaged RV8A.  Nose gear leg is stuck in the engine mount, and I am thinking about heat application while it is in the hydraulic press.



From my quick research online, the steel strength should not be affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of the melting point, or about 1000 deg F.  If I keep an IR thermometer on it during the attempt, and keep the temp below 800, I figure I am probably ok.  But for the purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 would be enough.



Any metalurists on the list?  Funny things happen during that cooling down period.



C Dominey



csdjbtexas(at)live.com (csdjbtexas(at)live.com)

 

If it's rust that's causing your problem, try googling 'acetone and automatic transmission fluid'. 



Charlie

(It works for me; I now keep a pump-oil can handy when working on old equipment.)[quote]  [b]

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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:00 pm Post subject: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear

Get Kroil from Kano Labs.  Google 'kroil' for a special deal.  And     don't blow it off for price.  The stuff is worth it.

     Linn

     

     On 10/21/2011 3:20 PM, Greg Young wrote:     [quote]                       <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->                

Since             you have the mount off try using your rivet gun with a flush             set to tap on the end of the gear leg. It doesn’t have to be             real strong – about the same as for AN3 rivets. It works             like magic to install and remove the close tolerance spar             bolts where brute force fails. It’s a good idea to prep it             with penetrating oil like Kroil. It’s excellent but hard to             find.         

          

Greg             Young         

                                  

From:                 owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)                 [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On                   Behalf Of Charlie England

                 Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 12:54 PM

                 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)

                 Subject: Re: Rehab RV - Engine mount and                 Nose gear           

         

         

          

On 10/21/2011 06:38 AM, cliff dominey           wrote:                                  

I                 am trying to restore a damaged RV8A.  Nose gear leg is                 stuck in the engine mount, and I am thinking about heat                 application while it is in the hydraulic press.           

                        

From                 my quick research online, the steel strength should not                 be affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of                 the melting point, or about 1000 deg F.  If I keep an IR                 thermometer on it during the attempt, and keep the temp                 below 800, I figure I am probably ok.  But for the                 purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 would be                 enough.           

                        

Any                 metalurists on the list?  Funny things happen during                 that cooling down period.           

                        

C                 Dominey           

                        

csdjbtexas(at)live.com (csdjbtexas(at)live.com)           

         

         

          

If it's rust that's causing your problem,           try googling 'acetone and automatic transmission fluid'. 

           

           Charlie

           (It works for me; I now keep a pump-oil can handy when working           on old equipment.)          	  Quote: 	
		    

	
     [b]

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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:00 pm Post subject: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear

Get Kroil from Kano Labs.  Google 'kroil' for a special deal.  And     don't blow it off for price.  The stuff is worth it.

     Linn

     

     On 10/21/2011 3:20 PM, Greg Young wrote:     [quote]                       <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->                

Since             you have the mount off try using your rivet gun with a flush             set to tap on the end of the gear leg. It doesn’t have to be             real strong – about the same as for AN3 rivets. It works             like magic to install and remove the close tolerance spar             bolts where brute force fails. It’s a good idea to prep it             with penetrating oil like Kroil. It’s excellent but hard to             find.         

          

Greg             Young         

                                  

From:                 owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)                 [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On                   Behalf Of Charlie England

                 Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 12:54 PM

                 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)

                 Subject: Re: Rehab RV - Engine mount and                 Nose gear           

         

         

          

On 10/21/2011 06:38 AM, cliff dominey           wrote:                                  

I                 am trying to restore a damaged RV8A.  Nose gear leg is                 stuck in the engine mount, and I am thinking about heat                 application while it is in the hydraulic press.           

                        

From                 my quick research online, the steel strength should not                 be affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of                 the melting point, or about 1000 deg F.  If I keep an IR                 thermometer on it during the attempt, and keep the temp                 below 800, I figure I am probably ok.  But for the                 purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 would be                 enough.           

                        

Any                 metalurists on the list?  Funny things happen during                 that cooling down period.           

                        

C                 Dominey           

                        

csdjbtexas(at)live.com (csdjbtexas(at)live.com)           

         

         

          

If it's rust that's causing your problem,           try googling 'acetone and automatic transmission fluid'. 

           

           Charlie

           (It works for me; I now keep a pump-oil can handy when working           on old equipment.)          	  Quote: 	
		    

	
     [b]

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Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear

The previously mentioned acetone with ATF works better in penetrating 

and freeing parts than any commercial product, almost by a factor of 2.



On 10/21/2011 12:20 PM, Greg Young wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Since you have the mount off try using your rivet gun with a flush set 

 to tap on the end of the gear leg. It doesn’t have to be real strong – 

 about the same as for AN3 rivets. It works like magic to install and 

 remove the close tolerance spar bolts where brute force fails. It’s a 

 good idea to prep it with penetrating oil like Kroil. It’s excellent 

 but hard to find.



 Greg Young



 *From:*owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Charlie England

 *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2011 12:54 PM

 *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Re: Rehab RV - Engine mount and Nose gear



 On 10/21/2011 06:38 AM, cliff dominey wrote:



 I am trying to restore a damaged RV8A. Nose gear leg is stuck in the 

 engine mount, and I am thinking about heat application while it is in 

 the hydraulic press.



 From my quick research online, the steel strength should not be 

 affected so long as it is not heated beyond 40% of the melting point, 

 or about 1000 deg F. If I keep an IR thermometer on it during the 

 attempt, and keep the temp below 800, I figure I am probably ok. But 

 for the purpose of heat expansion, maybe about 500 would be enough.



 Any metalurists on the list? Funny things happen during that cooling 

 down period.



 C Dominey



 csdjbtexas(at)live.com <mailto:csdjbtexas(at)live.com>



 If it's rust that's causing your problem, try googling 'acetone and 

 automatic transmission fluid'.



 Charlie

 (It works for me; I now keep a pump-oil can handy when working on old 

 equipment.)



 *  *

 *  *

 *

 *

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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

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