 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
FIRESTARII
Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 32
|
 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: Hirth 3203 |
 |
|
 Hello ladies, gents, and Kolbers! I am just about to take my FSII apart for a winter resto with my A&P/IA father. I plan on a complete resto including recovering/painting as well as a repower and all new instruments including an EIS system and Matco tail wheel, Hydro toe brakes and a full enclosure. I am pondering engine choices because my 503 DCDI has right at 300 hours TT now and I don't want to go beyond TBO simply because I am scared to death of the engine and I take one of my two boys or my wife every time I fly. Additionally the field I fly out of on a regular basis is VERY SHORT and it is ONE WAY IN AND ONE WAY OUT with no options short of crashing into trees if she quits! Needless to say I don't like the risk but I am comfortable enough with the engine and my abilities that I feel the risk is worth the reward and I am only in the "Danger Zone" for less than 30 seconds each flight. That being said I would like to further minimize the risk as much as possible. Now I FULLY REALIZE, let me say that again I FULLY REALIZE that the FSII is not designed for a 65 horse motor, however I know that with a few mods guys have been able to run 65HP safely. I am leaning toward the 65HP motor simply because it would reduce the "Danger Zone" substantially by reducing TO roll and increase Climb Perf dramatically. Yes, yes I know the FSII already preforms incredibly well as it is but in this case I feel more is better. Folks I have flown alot of very high performance airplanes and still have never flown one with "Too Much Power"! That being said I am leaning strongly toward the Hirth 3202 and here is why, fuel injection(because I really want to run the IVO in flight adjustable prop) so the FI will automatically adjust the fuel to keep EGT's in check and maximize fuel economy. I really like the fact that the Hirth develops it's peak power at a significantly lower RPM, thus less noise, vibration, and fuel flow. Also the main reason is the 1000 hour TBO because I fly A LOT and if you run the numbers "long term" the Hirth pays for itself over time when compared to the 582. Additionally unlike the 582 it's air cooled and eliminates the need and complexity for a cooling system and further reduces the chances of a critical component failing. All that plus it's lighter and over all less complex than the 582 and best of all the over haul is cheaper! So based on my criteria it would seem to be an "Ideal" fit for my needs. Now let me say I realize two strokes have proven themselves to be safe and reliable as well as affordable compared to their 4 stroke brethren but that still does not mean I trust them. I was raised on the Lyco's and Continentals and frequently bet my life that they will run and since I am writing this post obviously they have not yet let me down. I am also leaning toward the Hirth because I REALLY don't trust the "Conversions" i.e. BMW/Honda and I am not even sure there is one that could be made to work on the FS.
I guess what I am looking for from you folks is how ya'll feel about the Hirth engines VS the Rotax both in terms of SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY, and long term durability/usability/parts availability. My biggest problem with the Rotax is the 300 hour TBO because with the sheer amount I fly I will be rebuilding once a year and "Dang" that gets pricy!  Price aside though SAFETY is my number 1 priority here regardless of price and performance being a close second. However with the price of four strokes being in the 10K range I just cannot justify that on an airplane like mine. I feel that it would be like putting leather seats in a school bus and is just not logical. I would really like to hear any information/opinions good or bad provided they are based on facts not soap boxes. Thanks again everybody and fly safe!
Seth Miller
FSII
Skypark, Ohio
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
Low and Slow FireStar II |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: Hirth 3203 |
|
|
Hello ladies, gents, and Kolbers
I guess what I am looking for from you folks is how ya'll feel about the
Hirth engines VS the Rotax both in terms of SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY, and long
term durability/usability/parts availability.
Seth Miller
Seth M/Gang:
If Hirth two stroke engines were a bargain, safe and reliable, and IVO in
flight adjustable props would increase our flying performance, safety, and
economy on our Kolb airplanes, we'd all be flying that particular set up.
How many folks do you know that fly a Kolb, powered with a Hirth, and
equipped with an IVO in flight adjustable prop?
Hirth has the worst reputation for reliability of those two strokes
available for our Kolbs.
I've been building and flying Kolb aircraft since 1984. I quit flying my
Kolb with two stroke power in 1993, the last engine failure I had with a
582. After that engine failure, last of many, many engine failures with two
strokes, I found a way to buy a 912 and never looked back. Haven't had an
engine failure in over 3,000 hours.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FIRESTARII
Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 32
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Hirth 3203 |
|
|
Hey John thanks, I would already have a 912 on the airplane if there was any way safely possible to fit that sucker on there, Boy can you imagine the astonishing performance of a 912S powered FSII I bet it would accelerate vertically! However seeing as how thats a 100% increase in horse power over what the airplane was designed for I would rather not see the catastrophic damage running that engine full power would do to the airframe! I can only imagine that the engine torque would twist itself clean off the mounts and most likely take the empenage with it, thus resulting in a really bad day and if ya lived you sure would have a whole lot of explaining to do to the local FSDO but thanks for your input. Remember facts...not soap boxes! 
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
Low and Slow FireStar II |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: Hirth 3203 |
|
|
I would already have a 912 on the airplane if there was any way safely
possible to fit that sucker on there
Remember facts...not soap boxes! [Wink] [Wink] [Wink]
--------
Low and Slow FireStar II
I did not recommend putting a 912 on your FSII. However, there are other 4
stroke engines available, e.g., the HKS. Several of my close friends have
them mounted on FSII aircraft. They are not rocket ships, but they are
extremely reliable.
If you plan to fly passengers, I would recommend a MKIIIc or a Kolbra
powered with a 912UL or 912ULS. The MKIIIc is an extremely good STOL
aircraft with the proper mods.
I don't know about the soap boxes, but I have been intimately involved with
Kolb aircraft for 27 years, since I retired as an Army Aviator. Flying
Kolbs is not like flying store bought airplanes.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Hirth 3203 |
|
|
Based on my very limited exposure to Hirth engines, if you gave me one, I would sell it on ebay and buy something else. For your application, I would go with an HKS.
We are running a 582 on the FSII, but it always flies solo, and consequently runs at around 4800 rpm. At that rpm, it will go WAY beyond 300 hrs, but exactly how long - ??? I have over 300 hrs on my 582 on the MKIII, but since I normally run it around 5300 rpm, - I have no plans to overhaul it anytime soon. I'll keep ya posted...
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
