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frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:49 pm Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

Richard,

Seems like an easy comonsense way to solve a big problem. I plan on adding earbuds to my headset

next time I go to the airport. Thanks for the info and pics.

Frank Goodnight 



From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, November 2, 2011 6:18:18 PM

Subject: Headsets & hearing loss



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org (richard(at)bcchapel.org)>



While getting ready to go fly this evening, I thought about what John said earlier: "My hearing is so poor I cannot understand the spoken word on the radio without an ANR headset and the volume turned up max."



I am dealing with tinnitus caused by a rogue antibiotic (If anybody suggests you should take Avelox - the side effects are horrendous) and loud noises aggravates it. 



Don't know how this would compare with a good ANR headset, but it cuts the noise down a huge amount over a normal headset and makes it really easy to hear what other people are saying.  Here's how to make yours for about $10 and 45 minutes time:



Pick up some earbuds at your favorite big box store or drugstore, and glue the most comfortable silicon earpieces in place. if you don't glue them in  place, they will come off the earbuds, fall out of your ear, and then into the recesses of your Kolb. Guess how I know this?



Cut the earbuds off their twinned wire so that you have about 7" of wire coming off the earbud. Separate a small amount of the two wires from the insulation. Pull off the ear pad cover and pull out the foam inside. Unscrew the speaker and move it so you can get to the speaker wires. Unsolder one of the wires and splice the earbud in so that it is in series. If necessary, dab some silicone on to insulate things. Do the other side the same way and then put everything all back together. Just let the lip of the ear pad push the wire against the headset, it won't hurt it. 



Put the headset on and then lift one side at a time from your head and poke the earbud in your ear so it feels comfortable. It is much quieter than before, and hearing other airplanes and ATC seems a lot better for me. Your results may vary, and if you   

 [quote][b]

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:09 am Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

On 11/03/2011 07:14 AM, Richard Pike wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 SS568 wrote:

>

> On the serious side is there a need to worry about impedance match?

>

> David d.[/b]

 Not that I noticed. I wondered about it ahead of time, but it seems to work just fine.

 --------

 Richard Pike

Were these regular headsets, or active noise canceling? I'd be a little 

leery of making that mod on noise canceling models; it might mess up the 

headset's ability to do its noise cancel process.

I've used regular earbuds under active headsets by just using an adapter 

& plugging the earbuds into the a/c's headset jack instead of the 

headset plug. The headset mic plug stayed in the regular configuration. 

In a homebuilt (RV-4 in this case), it's so quiet I worried a little bit 

that I might not hear a/c noise that I would *need* to hear.

Charlie

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:32 am Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

i had wondered about using regular ear buds, and plugging them into the aux 

output on the intercom..  , sigtronics spo22n,  and running the wires under 

the ear cup seals.  at least for a test, before i connected them into the 

headset.  as far as impedance,,,   most ear buds, because they are placed in 

the ear canal and need to move a much smaller volume of air to be just as 

loud, and will have a much higher impedance than the speakers in the 

headsets.   the biggest difference in the impedance would show up in how 

they are connected, series or parole, to the headset speaker.   i have 

nothing but a gut feeling on this one but i think i would go with parole. 

instead of hard wiring them into the headset,,,  i have wondered about a 

small magnetic coupled connection,  kind of like the new apple computer 

laptop is using for the charging cable.  this would eliminate ripping 

something loose should it get pulled by accident.

opinions welcome



boyd young

\mkiii  utah/

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


I've used regular earbuds under active headsets by just using an adapter

& plugging the earbuds into the a/c's headset jack instead of the

headset plug. The headset mic plug stayed in the regular configuration.

In a homebuilt (RV-4 in this case), it's so quiet I worried a little bit

that I might not hear a/c noise that I would *need* to hear.



Charlie

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:48 am Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

The biggest problem that I have using a headset is that  most are not tight enough to the head to keep out the unwanted noise. David  Clarks however are painful to me because they squeeze my head, Sigtronics  and all the others that I have tried are too loose. I need to check into a chin  strap I guess. Keep us posted with what you find out Boyd.

 Larry

  

 Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history,  which includes my email address.

 [quote]   ---

_________________
do not archive

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:43 am Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

I'm currently using Sony ear buds under my Sigtronics head set that I added the headset inc. active noise reduction kit to. I got some adapters and plugged two sets of ear buds into my intercom one for me and one for my passenger. The ear buds provide almost as much additional noise reduction as ear plugs but do a better job with voice clarity than the heads sets so it works very well. I have been flying with this set up for about four years but now I occasionally loose one or both the ear bud connections and have to wiggle the adapters to get it working again. Richard P has developed a elegant solution but I wounder if a jack in the head set or in the intercom for the ear buds might be a better long term solution. I'm also getting close to wearing out the Sony ear buds and would not look forward to soldering in a new set with each change. Those tiny wires are a real pain with my fat fingers. I have never lost a ear seal from the ear buds but I have discovered at least with the Sony buds that the little handle on the ear buds bumps against the head set and isn't comfortable so I have scored and broken off the little ear bud handles. 



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:27 AM, b young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)>

  

 i had wondered about using regular ear buds, and plugging them into the aux output on the intercom..  , sigtronics spo22n,  and running the wires under the ear cup seals.  at least for a test, before i connected them into the headset.  as far as impedance,,,   most ear buds, because they are placed in the ear canal and need to move a much smaller volume of air to be just as loud, and will have a much higher impedance than the speakers in the headsets.   the biggest difference in the impedance would show up in how they are connected, series or parole, to the headset speaker.   i have nothing but a gut feeling on this one but i think i would go with parole. instead of hard wiring them into the headset,,,  i have wondered about a small magnetic coupled connection,  kind of like the new apple computer laptop is using for the charging cable.  this would eliminate ripping something loose should it get pulled by accident.

  opinions welcome

 

 boyd young

 \mkiii  utah/



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 I've used regular earbuds under active headsets by just using an adapter

 & plugging the earbuds into the a/c's headset jack instead of the

 headset plug. The headset mic plug stayed in the regular configuration.

 In a homebuilt (RV-4 in this case), it's so quiet I worried a little bit

 that I might not hear a/c noise that I would *need* to hear.

 

 Charlie

 

 

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 om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

 ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 le, List Admin.

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 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

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 http://forums.matronics.com

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 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

 

 

 

 



[b]

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss

 	  neilsenrm(at)gmail.com wrote: 	
		  I'm currently using Sony ear buds under my Sigtronics head set that I added the headset inc. active noise reduction kit to. I got some adapters and plugged two sets of ear buds into my intercom one for me and one for my passenger. The ear buds provide almost as much additional noise reduction as ear plugs but do a better job with voice clarity than the heads sets so it works very well.

Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

	




I did that for a while, but ran out of patience with the plethora of wires. I have a low confusion tolerance, and I was always getting something tangled up. Probably it is just me...  Anyway, splicing the earbuds into the headset eliminated the overabundance of wires. 



OTOH, before I spliced them into the headset, I could plug the earbuds into the mp3 player, which was nice if I was going off by myself with no expectation to talk to anybody. That option is no longer available.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss

[quote="lcottrell"]The biggest problem that I have using a headset is that  most are not tight enough to the head to keep out the unwanted noise. David  Clarks however are painful to me because they squeeze my head, Sigtronics  and all the others that I have tried are too loose. I need to check into a chin  strap I guess. Keep us posted with what you find out Boyd.

 Larry

   	  Quote: 	
		     --- 	




You can use the Armstrong method on that stainless steel strap that runs over the top of the head, you know - fine tune the tension a bit.



Along with that - was brain storming with a friend the other night - I am using silicon gel filled ear cushions on the head set - why would it not work to get a second set of gel filled cushions and then use some of that foamy double stick tape and stack the foam cushions atop one another to make things more comfortable? Feedback?

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:30 pm Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

Rick,

 You wore the David Clarks when we rode in my MK3.Were they enough to be comfortable or have I become accustomed to the din the Jabiru produces?

 G.Aman

    

  

     

  

     

  

    --

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:49 pm Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

OTOH, before I spliced them into the headset, I could plug the earbuds into 

the mp3 player, which was nice if I was going off by myself with no 

expectation to talk to anybody. That option is no longer available.



--------

Richard Pike

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>


	


plug the mp3 into the aux input in the intercom.  best of both worlds. 

listen to music and talk to ATC.



boyd young

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:50 pm Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

series or parole, 

  

 parallel  is what i ment,,,,  i think  when i hit replace all i did not look carefully enough to what i was replacing  with.

  

 boyd

  

 do not archive

   [quote][b]

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:10 pm Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

I have in fact done that very thing several times, just  not enough spring steel in Sigtronics to do the job I guess. I am thinking about  some Velcro on each headset and a comfortable strap. Got the Velcro, no such  thing as a comfortable strap as of yet.

  

 Actually my S45's do enough of a job to be tolerable,  better for me than the DRE's, I do like to listen to music, and do so every  chance I get, Quieter would still be very nice though and I am ready to listen  (pun intended) and adapt every viable  option.

 Larry

  

 Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history,  which includes my email address.

 [quote]   ---

_________________
do not archive

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss

 	  byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c wrote: 	
		  

plug the mp3 into the aux input in the intercom.  best of both worlds. 

listen to music and talk to ATC.



boyd young 	




I tried that, but never could get enough volume. Don't know why. 



Talk to ATC? I put in 30 years BEING ATC, I don't want to talk to them unless I need them. Which at the altitudes I fly, I mostly don't. <grin> I know how good their radar is, and I know how to hide from it...

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

At 04:18 PM 11/2/11 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Pick up some earbuds at your favorite big box store or drugstore, and glue 

the most comfortable silicon earpieces in place. if you don't glue them in 
	


place, they will come off the earbuds, fall out of your ear, and then into 

the recesses of your Kolb. Guess how I know this?

 	  Quote: 	
		  


	


Richard,



I have the same type of hearing problem.  I tried the ear buds but I could 

not keep them located in my ears.  I went to a hearing aid salesman and 

asked him to make me some ear molds.  He did.  I never got around to 

mounting the ear buds, but I believe they will take care of the fall out 

problem.  Also, by making the right adaptor, one could use them while flying 

and on the lawn mower too, and may be get by just using ordinary muff ear 

protectors.



Now if I can just find them....



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:11 am Post subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss

[quote="jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne"]At 04:18 PM 11/2/11 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

I have the same type of hearing problem.  I tried the ear buds but I could 

not keep them located in my ears.  I went to a hearing aid salesman and 

asked him to make me some ear molds.  He did.  I never got around to 

mounting the ear buds, but I believe they will take care of the fall out 

problem.  Also, by making the right adaptor, one could use them while flying and on the lawn mower too, and may be get by just using ordinary muff ear protectors.



Now if I can just find them....



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN 	




You can make your own molded ear plugs fairly cheaply, and mold them to fit around the ear buds, but it may take you more than one attempt. I bought several sets of these Radians moldable ear plugs 



 http://www.amazon.com/Radians-Custom-Molded-Earplugs-Red/dp/B002XULPSQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1320411520&sr=8-2



and experimented with them. They are perhaps a bit quieter, not sure, but I could not come up with a combination that stayed comfortable for any length of time under the pressure of the head set. And they are tricky to get to fit when you are trying to insert them and dealing with the short length of wire. Or maybe I didn't mold them right.



I would mold the flexible stuff around the earbud and then have my wife help me to get them properly seated in the ear, where it would set up in just a few minutes. It was one of those things that almost worked. Since the plain earbuds fit my ears ok and don't fall out, I decided that is good enough. 



You can buy the silicone tips for earbuds in various sizes, and in my case, one size fits very well, and the others either fall out or are uncomfortable. I assume you have already experimented with this?

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:14 am Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

how about mounting a set of ear buds in something  like this

  

 http://www.amazon.com/Surefire-Sonic-Defenders-Medium-Clear/dp/B0012XT8B6/ref=pd_sim_sg_3

  

 the link has better photo,   and if you  scroll down there are other options   one of the options has a flap  with a plug that would fit in the hole, so i am nearly sure they are hollow into  the ear canal.

  

 been doing some searching for magnetic coupled  connectors,,,,  and found some patents and line drawings on what i would  like to use to connect the ear buds to the inside of the headsets, but haven't  been able to find a supplier.  still looking.

  

 boyd young

  

 [img]cid:9BBC9B416E08488C95F42D8B28B556BB(at)laptop1[/img]

earplug.BMP

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neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:32 am Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

Gary



Seems like I reported that your Jabiru powered MKIII was close to the quietest I have flown in. Let me qualify that by saying that you added a bunch of sound absorbing foam and it seems like your high quality head sets had the active noise cancelling kit installed. I have ringing in my ears all the time but after exposure to high noise levels it get worse for a bit. I don't remember that I noticed any extra ringing after flying in your plane but it was, what three years ago.

 



The nosiest Kolb I ever flew in was a 503 powered MKIIIC with a cheep head set/intercom that had non standard plugs that I couldn't plug my Sigtronics into. At full throttle (which we did a lot of) the noise was down right pain full. The quietest Kolb was John H's MKIIIC. My theory is that big fuel tank mounted high in the cage is a large viscus mass that absorbs sound and noise producing vibration before it gets to the cockpit. I don't remember the headset I used but I don't think he had and active noise canceling in the passenger headset. That 912S was just a soft purr, well maybe a bit higher pitch. I compare it to the old factory MKIIIC demonstrator (fat albert) with the 912 which always got my ears ringing.

 



One configuration of my VW powered MKIIIC was actually quieter than John H's. It was the high mount redrive VW. The high mount used the same Rotax style vibration dampers but the engine was mounted high over the Rotax mount so as to allow clearance to the oil sump on the bottom of the engine. The engine kind of floated on the mount twisting a bit under power. One of the dampers failed after about a hundred hours. The noise level was so low with the 3200 engine RPM at cruise and 2000 RPM prop that I actually took my headset off for the briefest moment to see how bad it was.

 



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC   



On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com (zeprep251(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 [quote]Rick,

 You wore the David Clarks when we rode in my MK3.Were they enough to be comfortable or have I become accustomed to the din the Jabiru produces?

 G.Aman

    

  

     

  

     

  

    --

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:16 pm Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

Rick,

 Adding all that Denso- Foam made the difference,in the center section in particular. I think you are right about the liquid killing the noise in John's plane.Took a tour of Kennedy space center last year and one of the interesting pieces of information I recalled was the massive amounts of water they poured on the launch pad at lift-off.I thought it was to cool the pad,but they said no,it was to control the noise. I still need to insulate the areas behind the fuel tanks.I have the foam,will carry it south with me this year and maybe get to it.  Maybe meet up again with you and some of the guys that are local.

 G.Aman MK3C Jabiru 2200a

  

    --

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss

 	  byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c wrote: 	
		  how about mounting a set of ear buds in something  like this

  

 http://www.amazon.com/Surefire-Sonic-Defenders-Medium-Clear/dp/B0012XT8B6/ref=pd_sim_sg_3  

<snip>  

 boyd young  

	




How about if you got some small diameter silicone tubing - the size that they use on model airplanes - attach it to the passage that runs through the Sonic Defender insert and let it extend to outside and below the headset cushion, and then attach the ear bud at that point? Hanging a few inches below the headset muff, with the tubing lying between your head and the headset cushion. Attach the ear bud wires to the head set as described in my previous post. Now the ear bud is not being smashed up against your ear by the inside of the headset, and you ought to have the best of both worlds. Sound dampening from the headset and from the insert both.  Thoughts?



One caveat: some earbuds have an opening in the back for some sort of acoustic reason - if you used it in this manner, would it be better to seal that up? Would that not let sound pass through the earbud and on up the tube?

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: Headsets & hearing loss

One caveat: some earbuds have an opening in the back for some sort of 

acoustic reason - if you used it in this manner, would it be better to seal 

that up? Would that not let sound pass through the earbud and on up the 

tube?



--------

Richard Pike

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


is the opening in the back an air passage way to eliminate pressure 

differences in the inner ear to the outside air pressure,,



boyd young

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Headsets & hearing loss

If any of you hard-of-hearing pilots use hearing aids you should try the T-Coil setting, if so equipped. The T-Coil switches OFF the hearing aid microphone and gets its signal from the emf (electromagnetic field) generated by the coils in the headset. This way, the only major sound you get comes through the radio and/or intercom. The T-coil was designed for use with telephones (hence the name) but works as well or better in a noisy airplane cabin with headsets.



I went completely deaf over the years in both ears and now have bi-lateral cochlear implants. The only way I can use the radio now is with the T-coil set which makes a HUGE difference in speech intelligibility.



For more information on T-coils see this:

http://www.tecear.com/Turn-On-To-T-coil.htm

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

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