Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Retractable
Goto page 1, 2, 3 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

pdwalter(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: Retractable

In read on a web site that a guy in  Western  Australia is trying to adapt a retratrable undercarraige from a lancair  to an RV  10. Not sure how far into this mission he is but if he is sucessfull i'm  sure he  should be able to squeeze a few more knots out of this thing. Any  thoughts ?. As  for me I'll just keep working on the empenage.

  

 Paul Walter

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:11 am Post subject: Retractable

Thoughts as requested...

Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time

over the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and

building time that could be spent either flying or with the family

or both?  Not for me.  Also, one of the nicest things about the -10

is that you can own it and fly reasonably fast without the many

maintenance hassles that can come up with a retract system that

will only cost you MORE money, and MORE headaches along the way...

not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing.



I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason.

If someone wants a retract, they should consider actually building

a retractible kit that was designed for it, or buying a used

Bonanza, which would be an awesome plane



But, isn't that the beauty of homebuilding?  He has the ability to

do things that make little sense for numerous reasons, but make

sense for only a couple....and yet he's still fine to do it.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Paul Walter wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   In read on a web site that a guy in Western Australia is trying to adapt 

 a retratrable undercarraige from a lancair to an RV 10. Not sure how far 

 into this mission he is but if he is sucessfull i'm sure he should be 

 able to squeeze a few more knots out of this thing. Any thoughts ?. As 

 for me I'll just keep working on the empenage.

  

 Paul Walter

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:36 am Post subject: Retractable

If retractable gear is so great, how come all Cirrus airplanes and all 

Columbias (no slouches in performance) are fixed gear?



TDT



--

GRANSCOTT(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:54 am Post subject: Retractable

In a message dated 5/23/06 7:14:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  < FONT    style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size =2>If    someone wants a retract, 	


 

 Tim, 

  

 If one wanted to do this in the US, I think one might want to   touch base with an insurance agent to get an idea how much a jury rigge d  undercarriage would increase your insurance cost...bet it would come close t o  doubling or more rate increase over your normal rate with  fixed gear.

  

 Certainly the Bo, Commander, Mooney are good choices in single  fan retract GA area but if one wants a retract kit rather than jury rig  an  RV, it seems to make more sense to buy a retract experimental with some  experience...Lance, (Wheeler) Express or the Raven kit.  The Raven   while a home built is based on a former production aircraft (Piper Comanche) ; so  it has some similarity to a production product, this may or may not make any   difference in your rates, though.

  

 Patrick

  

 do not archive

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:53 am Post subject: Retractable

Having owned a Cardinal RG for 28 years and 2500 hours I agree with Tim. 

Never landed gear up but did have several XCs home with the gear left down 

so maintenance could be done at home. Retractable gear benefits are a wash 

for the increased maintenance and insurance costs and my gear version was 

the final engineering level for the aircraft. A far more beneficial (again 

with tradeoffs) was the turbonormalization. Fortunately the 10 is so over 

powered by FAR standards that it will not be needed.

---

ichelva(at)netspace.net.a
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:11 am Post subject: Retractable

Paul, do you have the website of the alleged  Western  Australian RV-10 RG builder? I'm only aware of 5 kits (with one flying)  in this  state.

  

 Indran Chelvanayagam



   From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul  Walter

Sent: Tuesday, 23 May 2006 3:22 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Retractable

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:40 am Post subject: Retractable

Yeah, I didn't even mention the insurance, but it's significant.

When the rates got jacked up about 6 years ago, I remember

retracts were an extreme amount higher than fixed gear.

My guess is you'd be facing at least $2000-3000/year more

in our market if it was retractable.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   In a message dated 5/23/06 7:14:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 

 Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:

 

     < FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial

     color=#000000 size =2>If someone wants a retract,

 

 Tim,

  

 If one wanted to do this in the US, I think one might want to touch base 

 with an insurance agent to get an idea how much a jury rigge d 

 undercarriage would increase your insurance cost...bet it would come 

 close t o doubling or more rate increase over your normal rate with 

 fixed gear.

  

 Certainly the Bo, Commander, Mooney are good choices in single 

 fan retract GA area but if one wants a retract kit rather than jury rig 

 an RV, it seems to make more sense to buy a retract experimental with 

 some experience...Lance, (Wheeler) Express or the Raven kit.  The Raven 

 while a home built is based on a former production aircraft (Piper 

 Comanche) ; so it has some similarity to a production product, this may 

 or may not make any difference in your rates, though.

  

 Patrick

  

 do not archive

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:56 am Post subject: Retractable

I'm suspicious of this rumor. The Lancair IV landing gear is a huge box 

structure that would not fit into the RV10 fuse (unless you built on an 

additional drag producing box-like structure on the bottom of the fuse 

to house it (what's the point?) The 360/Legend gear would require  being 

mounted into the wing structure with several ribs removed/reengineered. 

Then there's the mater of the nose gear, where would you stow it? Not to 

mention the significant change that this would produce in the locations 

of the wheels and the rotation moments for landing/takeoff and the 

almost total rework of the engine mount, exhaust, and induction. There 

are better solutions for an RG than the -10.



 Deems Davis # 406

Fuse

http://deemsrv10.com/

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: Retractable

Taildragger retract . . .



TDT

Do not archive 



--

3edcft6(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: Retractable

It's my understanding that in a 200 mph airplane, if you can do retracts 

with out adding too much weight, the best you are going to see is 15 

knots.  From what I have heard, you are very lucky to get that.  It 

seems until you have a plane that files closer to 300 mph, retracts 

aren't worth the trouble.



-- 

Chris W

KE5GIX



Gift Giving Made Easy

Get the gifts you want & 

give the gifts they want

One stop wish list for any gift, 

from anywhere, for any occasion!

http://thewishzone.com

ichelva(at)netspace.net.a
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: Retractable

Paul - any chance of pointing us to the website you mentioned? As far as I'm

aware, there are only 5 RV10 kits (one flying) in Western Australia. Would

be good to contact another builder, especially if he's making serious mods.

Might also be able to post some photos on the list!



Indran Chelvanayagam

Paul Walter wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   In read on a web site that a guy in Western Australia is trying to 

 adapt a retratrable undercarraige from a lancair to an RV 10. Not sure 

 how far into this mission he is but if he is sucessfull i'm sure he 

 should be able to squeeze a few more knots out of this thing. Any 

 thoughts ?. As for me I'll just keep working on the empenage.

  

 Paul Walter

jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: Retractable

Van was asked the same question at Oshkosh.  His comment was to put a gear handle on the panel with some lights.  Move the handle and the lights indicate gear position.  You can't see them anyway, just pretend they are up (or down).



Jim Combs



Do Not Archive  

===========================================================

From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Date: 2006/05/23 Tue AM 07:10:59 EDT

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Retractable






Thoughts as requested...

Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time over the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and building time that could be spent either flying or with the family or both?  Not for me.  Also, one of the nicest things about the -10 is that you can own it and fly reasonably fast without the many maintenance hassles that can come up with a retract system that will only cost you MORE money, and MORE headaches along the way...

not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing.



I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason.  If someone wants a retract, they should consider actually building a retractible kit that was designed for it, or buying a used Bonanza, which would be an awesome plane. But, isn't that the beauty of homebuilding?  He has the ability to do things that make little sense for numerous reasons, but make sense for only a couple....and yet he's still fine to do it.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 9:07 am Post subject: Retractable

That's brilliant!  Maybe I'll put in a noise generator wired into the

audio system, so when the wheels go down you hear the gear motor and the

rush of disturbed air . . .



TDT

Do not archive



--

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: Retractable

If you can add engine noises, it could be something you

sell to current non-flying builders.  They they won't

wear out their lips making the engine noises themselves

when they sit in their half-built planes.  Then,

add a small vibrator from an old reclining chair...



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:

[quote] 

 

 

 That's brilliant!  Maybe I'll put in a noise generator wired into the

 audio system, so when the wheels go down you hear the gear motor and the

 rush of disturbed air . . .

 

 TDT

 Do not archive

 

 

 

 --

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: Retractable

Tim, could you also add an intermittent, random failure of one of the

indicator lights, just for yucks!  Would appreciate it.  I miss suspense of

seeing 3-green.  



John J



do not archive 



--

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: Retractable

But for the retract, you would have to have the bass box to simulate the

thump from the door going up and closing!

Dan

Do not archive 



--

mark(at)macomb.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:39 am Post subject: Retractable

I helped Van attach the wings to his sailplane one day and observed a 

gear light on the dash. I asked if the flight engineer was supposed to 

report "One Green" during the landing checklist.



Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:

[quote] 

 That's brilliant!  Maybe I'll put in a noise generator wired into the

 audio system, so when the wheels go down you hear the gear motor and the

 rush of disturbed air . . .



 TDT

 Do not archive



 --

jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: Retractable

Just think you wouldn't be spending $30+ per hour for fuel either just to land where you took off from (Most of the time!)



Jim C



Do nOT archive.

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: Retractable

Or, you could just buy a 20 yr old Mooney 201, miss all the great  

building experience, choice of avionics experience, spend about the  

same money, go the same speed, on 2-4gph less(have a 4 cyl engine with  

cheaper overhaul) and have real operating gear....oh, and you lose one  

cabin door, need ~2000 ft runways instead of 1000 ft and can't climb  

as fast..........choices, choices.



Quoting John Jessen <jjessen(at)rcn.com>:



[quote] 



 Tim, could you also add an intermittent, random failure of one of the

 indicator lights, just for yucks!  Would appreciate it.  I miss suspense of

 seeing 3-green.



 John J



 do not archive



 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: Retractable

I really agree with Tim Olson on this one. Having owned a used  

Bonanza for a few years, I am really looking forward to annual  

inspections with no retractable gear worries. Expensive, heavy,  

complex, and you always have a moment of "will it, or won't it come  

down" when you lower the gear for landing. Don't get me wrong, the  

Bonanza is an awesome airplane, but less complexity and similar  

performance are very attractive to me now. The building experience is  

icing on the cake.



David Maib



do not archive

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2, 3 Next
Page 1 of 3

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum