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smoke

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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject: smoke

http://www.acroflyer.com/smoke_system.htm



quite a good link to building a smoke system



i found other links that said to inject the oil through an atomizing nozzle 

to get better smoke from the same oil.



google aircraft smoke generator, there is a lot of stuff.



do not archive.



boyd

Ozarkflyer

Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 68
Location: Mtn. View, AR

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:19 am Post subject: Re: smoke

I believe Michael Cuy, of Pietenpol fame, used a pump-up bug sprayer and injected smoke oil into the exhaust of his Continental.

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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:12 am Post subject: Re: smoke

I think I spent $10 when I built mine back in 1985. Worked fine.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:00 am Post subject: Re: smoke

I just wonder where would be the best place to put the container holding the oil in my little plane.  I don't think I'd want something permanent because of the weight. And I wouldn't want to throw myself out of balance.

It sounds like some training from an experienced person might be in order if there is a possibility of the oil catching on fire if you turn it on or off at the wrong time.

It just doesn't sound as easy as I had imagined.  I guess I thought maybe something already built could just be attached.  I'm not much of a builder.

And would the speed of the plane matter?  I would think it would.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: smoke

 	  cristalclear13 wrote: 	
		  I just wonder where would be the best place to put the container holding the oil in my little plane.  I don't think I'd want something permanent because of the weight. And I wouldn't want to throw myself out of balance.

It sounds like some training from an experienced person might be in order if there is a possibility of the oil catching on fire if you turn it on or off at the wrong time.

It just doesn't sound as easy as I had imagined.  I guess I thought maybe something already built could just be attached.  I'm not much of a builder.

And would the speed of the plane matter?  I would think it would. 	




It really is as easy as you imagine, I think too many people make it too complicated. I like the idea of using a pump up sprayer for the oil tank. Back in the day I used a 2 liter bottle with a grommet in the cap and a 1/4" copper tube to the bottom. Soldered a metal valve stem into the line a few inches outside of the bottle, and then ran the line on up to the cockpit. 



Soldered an off/on valve into the line. On the downstream (low pressure) side of the off/on valve I used fish tank air line to run back to the engine. At the engine I took a hose clamp and drilled a hole in it, took a length of metal brake line and brazed a washer on it and poked it through the hose  clamp so that I could clamp the hose clamp around the exhaust pipe and the washer kept the steel tube tight to the exhaust. Make the steel tube long enough that it won't get hot enough to melt the plastic tube.



I was using a Rotax 277, and I drilled a hole in the middle section of the exhaust, the part with a ball joint at each end. Pressurized the 2 liter bottle from the air hose, the tube fit tight enough in the grommet that it wouldn't leak down. 75 psi worked real well.



Once the engine got up to temperature, when you opened the valve, the corvis oil would pour big clouds of smoke out the exhaust pipe. A liter of oil lasted a long time in use. I searched the archives to see if I could find it, but couldn't. I remember discussing this on the list years ago because when I did, somebody took me to task for being a terrible environmentalist...



Anyway, I like the idea of using a pump up sprayer and then just rigging an off/on valve and a nozzle - much less work and lower pressure. I never worried about what would happen if you turned the oil on with the engine not running - that's easy. It will fill your muffler up with oil and make one heck of a mess.



Something that was interesting is that after a few uses, you could see the pressure pulse wave pattern in the paint, as the paint burned off in some places but not in others. A couple years later one of the baffles in the muffler came loose, and when I cut the can apart to weld it back, there was no mung or carbon in the canister. Also, when you turned the oil on, the RPM went up by about 50. Must not have hurt anything, the last time I heard, that 277 had 750 hours on the original bottom end and the second piston & rings.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:35 pm Post subject: smoke

I find all of this conversation about having a smoke system on a Kolb to be very interesting. I can just picture me flying down the Owyhee Canyon leaving a smoke trail or actually more realistically, enveloped in a cloud of smoke. Mine doesn't fly so fast that I might be able to be able to actually see the landscape. Then of course the next question would be to have a speed dial for the emergency services people that would be making the 2 hour drive to get to where they thought I had gone down. Then of course there is always the question of the artistic value of a straight line of smoke, or if I get really frisky and throw a couple of left and right turns in there to spice it up. I can just imagine the oohs and aaws of the local population when I lumber by stinking up the landscape, and getting the whole rear end of my lovely little Firestar greased up. Then again perhaps the bullshit might slide off a little easier.

 Larry

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org (richard(at)bcchapel.org)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org (richard(at)bcchapel.org)>

 cristalclear13 wrote:

 > I just wonder where would be the best place to put the container holding the oil in my little plane.  I don't think I'd want something permanent because of the weight. And I wouldn't want to throw myself out of balance.

  > It sounds like some training from an experienced person might be in order if there is a possibility of the oil catching on fire if you turn it on or off at the wrong time.

 > It just doesn't sound as easy as I had imagined.  I guess I thought maybe something already built could just be attached.  I'm not much of a builder.

 > And would the speed of the plane matter?  I would think it would.

 It really is as easy as you imagine, I think too many people make it too complicated. I like the idea of using a pump up sprayer for the oil tank. Back in the day I used a 2 liter bottle with a grommet in the cap and a 1/4" copper tube to the bottom. Soldered a metal valve stem into the line a few inches outside of the bottle, and then ran the line on up to the cockpit.

 Soldered an off/on valve into the line. On the downstream (low pressure) side of the off/on valve I used fish tank air line to run back to the engine. At the engine I took a hose clamp and drilled a hole in it, took a length of metal brake line and brazed a washer on it and poked it through the hose  clamp so that I could clamp the hose clamp around the exhaust pipe and the washer kept the steel tube tight to the exhaust. Make the steel tube long enough that it won't get hot enough to melt the plastic tube.

 I was using a Rotax 277, and I drilled a hole in the middle section of the exhaust, the part with a ball joint at each end. Pressurized the 2 liter bottle from the air hose, the tube fit tight enough in the grommet that it wouldn't leak down. 75 psi worked real well.

 Once the engine got up to temperature, when you opened the valve, the corvis oil would pour big clouds of smoke out the exhaust pipe. A liter of oil lasted a long time in use. I searched the archives to see if I could find it, but couldn't. I remember discussing this on the list years ago because when I did, somebody took me to task for being a terrible environmentalist...

 Anyway, I like the idea of using a pump up sprayer and then just rigging an off/on valve and a nozzle - much less work and lower pressure. I never worried about what would happen if you turned the oil on with the engine not running - that's easy. It will fill your muffler up with oil and make one heck of a mess.

 Something that was interesting is that after a few uses, you could see the pressure pulse wave pattern in the paint, as the paint burned off in some places but not in others. A couple years later one of the baffles in the muffler came loose, and when I cut the can apart to weld it back, there was no mung or carbon in the canister. Also, when you turned the oil on, the RPM went up by about 50. Must not have hurt anything, the last time I heard, that 277 had 750 hours on the original bottom end and the second piston & rings.

 --------

 Richard Pike

 Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org

 Kingsport, TN 3TN0

 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 Hebrews 11:1

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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: smoke

 	  lcottrell wrote: 	
		  <snip>Then of course the next question would be to have a speed dial for the emergency services people that would be making the 2 hour drive to get to where they thought I had gone down. <snip> 	




That brings back memories - When the Hummer had the smoke system, we had a supervisor at the tower who was a real ding-dong. If it was on a weekend when the races were running at Bristol, I would fly over  the track at altitude, put the smoke on, and then descend and disappear behind the next ridge over, knowing that Milt the Moron was getting bombarded by people calling the tower telling him that they thought they had seen a plane go down.  



That was before I started preaching - now I don't get to do that stuff anymore; I have to behave.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:42 am Post subject: smoke

At 10:32 PM 12/15/2011, Larry Cottrell wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  ...Then of course the next question would be to have a speed dial for the emergency services people that would be making the 2 hour drive to get to where they thought I had gone down... 	


 Ah, but just think... when you make that off airport landing just for fun somewhere you're not supposed to, you can always make the excuse of engine trouble more believable... 



 -Dana



 

 

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 Whiplash injuries:  Research has shown that the rate of return to work was five times greater amongst those who did not see a lawyer compared with those who did.

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cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:30 am Post subject: Re: smoke

 	  lcottrell wrote: 	
		  I find all of this conversation about having a smoke system on a Kolb to be very interesting. I can just picture me flying down the Owyhee Canyon leaving a smoke trail or actually more realistically, enveloped in a cloud of smoke. Mine doesn't fly so fast that I might be able to be able to actually see the landscape. Then of course the next question would be to have a speed dial for the emergency services people that would be making the 2 hour drive to get to where they thought I had gone down. Then of course there is always the question of the artistic value of a straight line of smoke, or if I get really frisky and throw a couple of left and right turns in there to spice it up. I can just imagine the oohs and aaws of the local population when I lumber by stinking up the landscape, and getting the whole rear end of my lovely little Firestar greased up. Then again perhaps the bullshit might slide off a little easier.

 Larry



	


 	  Richard Pike wrote: 	
		  



That brings back memories - When the Hummer had the smoke system, we had a supervisor at the tower who was a real ding-dong. If it was on a weekend when the races were running at Bristol, I would fly over  the track at altitude, put the smoke on, and then descend and disappear behind the next ridge over, knowing that Milt the Moron was getting bombarded by people calling the tower telling him that they thought they had seen a plane go down.  



That was before I started preaching - now I don't get to do that stuff anymore; I have to behave. 	


Oh, you guys are really funny and all I can do is laugh when reading the scenarios you are describing.  Sure, smash a girl's dream of writing "I love you" or "Happy Birthday" in the sky.  Ok, forget smoke...how about a big bubble machine?  Can you picture me flying overhead leaving a trail of nice big bubbles to entertain the kids?  Ok, maybe I've been watching too many Disney movies.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: smoke

 	  cristalclear13 wrote: 	
		  



Oh, you guys are really funny and all I can do is laugh when reading the scenarios you are describing.  Sure, smash a girl's dream of writing "I love you" or "Happy Birthday" in the sky.  Ok, forget smoke...how about a big bubble machine?  Can you picture me flying overhead leaving a trail of nice big bubbles to entertain the kids?  Ok, maybe I've been watching too many Disney movies. 	




If you still have or can mooch an old Playstation 2 system, pick up a copy of "Sky Odyssey" - they are cheap now days - and one of the things you can do is practice skywriting. You have to maintain altitude and be able to visualize where you are relative to where you have been. It is initially very difficult, but after a while it starts to make sense, and it is surprisingly realistic - or so it seemed to me. Give it a shot.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

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