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jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:42 am Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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Hi All:
On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest temperatures observed:
Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
CHT: 400 F
EGT: 1500 F
The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
I create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete installation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
Thanks for your support during this long journey..
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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matronics(at)rtist.nl
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:21 am Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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Jose,
The only 'suspect' in your pictures is the oil pan duct. You are scooping a large amount of air, duct it along the bottom of the sump and then throw that in the area that is supposed to be low pressure. That could cause a big curtain of air that prevents hot air from leaving the cowl.
Since you have a decent oil cooler present (that Positech coller is hooked up, right?), I would run a quick test and cover most if not all of the inlet to the oil pan duct.
Another point. You appear to have a somewhat older engine. Running the CHT up to 400F would result in warped heads in no time flat. Do you see any signs of blow-by around the head-to-barrel surface? If not, then perhaps that 400F isn't 400F and your instruments are really off. Take one of the CHT probes and dunk it in boiling water. Make sure it really shows the right temperature. Lookup the partnumber on your probes and your instrument and make sure they are made for eachother. Poor ground connection between the engine and the instrument panel can cause weird readings as well.
Hope this helps,
Rob
On 11/21/2011 6:38 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote: [quote] Hi All:
On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest temperatures observed:
Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
CHT: 400 F
EGT: 1500 F
The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
I create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete installation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
Thanks for your support during this long journey...
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
[b]
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:24 am Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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Hi Jose,
Without taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding reason for your high temps.
The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I would address that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet and larger main jet.Â
If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. Â I figure your engine is still new and therefore tight, which doesn't help. Â Are those temp reading taken at full throttle or cruise ?
Martin
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] Hi All:
Â
On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest temperatures observed:
Â
Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
CHT: 400 F
EGT: 1500 F
Â
The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
Â
I create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete installation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
Â
I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
Â
Thanks for your support during this long journey...
Â
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
| Quote: |
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:54 am Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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I agree with Martin, that looks a good installation. I like your ram air on the sump and the hole isn’t that big, should be helping the oil cooling.
Make sure you prove the temperature readings.
You can spot check at 100 C /212 with a boiling kettle of water, be a good place to start.
Regards, Clive
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Hone
Sent: 21 November 2011 19:23
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modification
Hi Jose,
Without taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding reason for your high temps.
The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I would address that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet and larger main jet.
If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. I figure your engine is still new and therefore tight, which doesn't help. Are those temp reading taken at full throttle or cruise ?
Martin
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
Hi All:
On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest temperatures observed:
Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
CHT: 400 F
EGT: 1500 F
The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
I create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete installation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
Thanks for your support during this long journey...
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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Martin:
The engine now has 4.8 hours, still in break in. These readings were crusing at 2840 RPM. My needle jet is 2.76. I don't know the size of the main jet, but it is the same one that came with the engine back in January 2005. I understand that this was before the economy needles. Is it there a size of main jet and needle jet that you may recommend, at least to start trial and error?
Thanks!
Jose
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modification
Hi Jose,
Without taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding reason for your high temps.
The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I would address that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet and larger main jet.
If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. I figure your engine is still new and therefore tight, which doesn't help. Are those temp reading taken at full throttle or cruise ?
Martin
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] Hi All:
On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest temperatures observed:
Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
CHT: 400 F
EGT: 1500 F
The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
I create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete installation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
Thanks for your support during this long journey...
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
| Quote: |
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
_blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:08 pm Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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Rob:
The air flow from the duct goes directly to the muffler. Would it make sense to extend the duct to route this air flow under the muffler, directly to the cowling exit? For my next test flight, I will try completely closing the oil duct entrance at the cowling. The Positech oil cooler and 3 inches oil duct should be providing plenty of oil cooling.
I bought the replacement cht senders from Grand Rapids, so, compatibility with the EIS should not be an issue. In addition, when the engine is not running, the 4 CHT shows consistently OAT.
Thanks!
Jose
From: Rob Turk <matronics(at)rtist.nl>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modification
Jose,
The only 'suspect' in your pictures is the oil pan duct. You are scooping a large amount of air, duct it along the bottom of the sump and then throw that in the area that is supposed to be low pressure. That could cause a big curtain of air that prevents hot air from leaving the cowl.
Since you have a decent oil cooler present (that Positech coller is hooked up, right?), I would run a quick test and cover most if not all of the inlet to the oil pan duct.
Another point. You appear to have a somewhat older engine. Running the CHT up to 400F would result in warped heads in no time flat. Do you see any signs of blow-by around the head-to-barrel surface? If not, then perhaps that 400F isn't 400F and your instruments are really off. Take one of the CHT probes and dunk it in boiling water. Make sure it really shows the right temperature. Lookup the partnumber on your probes and your instrument and make sure they are made for eachother. Poor ground connection between the engine and the instrument panel can cause weird readings as well.
Hope this helps,
Rob
On 11/21/2011 6:38 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote: [quote] Hi All:
On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest temperatures observed:
Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
CHT: 400 F
EGT: 1500 F
The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
I create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete installation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
Thanks for your support during this long journey...
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
_blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:08 pm Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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|
Jose,
Your engine is going to run hot simply because it is tight. Â However, during this critical phase, where you need to run it reasonably hard to bed it in, you also need to manage the temps. Â Looking at the pics again, how does the cooling air to the oil cooler exit the cooler ? Â Are the fins close to the firewall and does the air have to turn through 90 degrees to pass through ?
Regardless of what jetting your engine came with, if it is indeed running lean, then larger jets are required. Â I'd suggest stripping the carb and determining what you have. If the needle jet is too small, often larger main jets won't have any effect. Â Check the float height, place a small washer under the needle ( unless you have one with multiple grooves and you can adjust it this way) Â and use about 2 sizes larger main jet. Â If the temps come down, then you are in the ball park....
Marty
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] Martin:
Â
The engine now has 4.8 hours, still in break in. These readings were crusing at 2840 RPM. My needle jet is 2.76. I don't know the size of the main jet, but it is the same one that came with the engine back in January 2005. I understand that this was before the economy needles. Is it there a size of main jet and needle jet that you may recommend, at least to start trial and error?
Â
Thanks!
Â
Jose
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com (aerobiz1(at)gmail.com)>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification
Hi Jose,
Without taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding reason for your high temps.
The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I would address that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet and larger main jet.Â
If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. Â I figure your engine is still new and therefore tight, which doesn't help. Â Are those temp reading taken at full throttle or cruise ?
Martin
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi All:
Â
On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest temperatures observed:
Â
Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
CHT: 400 F
EGT: 1500 F
Â
The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
Â
I create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete installation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
Â
I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
Â
Thanks for your support during this long journey...
Â
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
_blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:17 pm Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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|
I would still try the boiling water test. Errors are unlikely to show at ambient.
It’s suggested the sump can provide as much as 25% of the oil cooling and I think it is at least that so be aware you may get a very hot engine.
When I had my sump covered no amount of air through the oil cooler was enough at high power.
Regards, Clive
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose M. Toro
Sent: 21 November 2011 20:06
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification
Rob:
The air flow from the duct goes directly to the muffler. Would it make sense to extend the duct to route this air flow under the muffler, directly to the cowling exit? For my next test flight, I will try completely closing the oil duct entrance at the cowling. The Positech oil cooler and 3 inches oil duct should be providing plenty of oil cooling.
I bought the replacement cht senders from Grand Rapids, so, compatibility with the EIS should not be an issue. In addition, when the engine is not running, the 4 CHT shows consistently OAT.
Thanks!
Jose
From: Rob Turk <matronics(at)rtist.nl>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification
Jose,
The only 'suspect' in your pictures is the oil pan duct. You are scooping a large amount of air, duct it along the bottom of the sump and then throw that in the area that is supposed to be low pressure. That could cause a big curtain of air that prevents hot air from leaving the cowl.
Since you have a decent oil cooler present (that Positech coller is hooked up, right?), I would run a quick test and cover most if not all of the inlet to the oil pan duct.
Another point. You appear to have a somewhat older engine. Running the CHT up to 400F would result in warped heads in no time flat. Do you see any signs of blow-by around the head-to-barrel surface? If not, then perhaps that 400F isn't 400F and your instruments are really off. Take one of the CHT probes and dunk it in boiling water. Make sure it really shows the right temperature. Lookup the partnumber on your probes and your instrument and make sure they are made for eachother. Poor ground connection between the engine and the instrument panel can cause weird readings as well.
Hope this helps,
Rob
On 11/21/2011 6:38 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
Hi All:
On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest temperatures observed:
Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
CHT: 400 F
EGT: 1500 F
The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
I create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete installation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
Thanks for your support during this long journey...
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
012345678901234567890123456789012
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
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jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:41 pm Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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|
Clive:
Then will have to go for the boiling water test. Thanks for the advice about the sump covered. Do you think it could help if I deflect the air that exits the oil pan duct in direction to the cowlling exit?
Jose
From: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:14 PM
Subject: RE: CHT still high after cowling modification
I would still try the boiling water test. Errors are unlikely to show at ambient.
It’s suggested the sump can provide as much as 25% of the oil cooling and I think it is at least that so be aware you may get a very hot engine.
When I had my sump covered no amount of air through the oil cooler was enough at high power.
Regards, Clive
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jose M. Toro
Sent: 21 November 2011 20:06
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modification
Rob:
The air flow from the duct goes directly to the muffler. Would it make sense to extend the duct to route this air flow under the muffler, directly to the cowling exit? For my next test flight, I will try completely closing the oil duct entrance at the cowling. The Positech oil cooler and 3 inches oil duct should be providing plenty of oil cooling.
I bought the replacement cht senders from Grand Rapids, so, compatibility with the EIS should not be an issue. In addition, when the engine is not running, the 4 CHT shows consistently OAT.
Thanks!
Jose
From: Rob Turk <matronics(at)rtist.nl>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification
Jose,
The only 'suspect' in your pictures is the oil pan duct. You are scooping a large amount of air, duct it along the bottom of the sump and then throw that in the area that is supposed to be low pressure. That could cause a big curtain of air that prevents hot air from leaving the cowl.
Since you have a decent oil cooler present (that Positech coller is hooked up, right?), I would run a quick test and cover most if not all of the inlet to the oil pan duct.
Another point. You appear to have a somewhat older engine. Running the CHT up to 400F would result in warped heads in no time flat. Do you see any signs of blow-by around the head-to-barrel surface? If not, then perhaps that 400F isn't 400F and your instruments are really off. Take one of the CHT probes and dunk it in boiling water. Make sure it really shows the right temperature. Lookup the partnumber on your probes and your instrument and make sure they are made for eachother. Poor ground connection between the engine and the instrument panel can cause weird readings as well.
Hope this helps,
Rob
On 11/21/2011 6:38 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
Hi All:
On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest temperatures observed:
Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
CHT: 400 F
EGT: 1500 F
The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
I create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete installation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
Thanks for your support during this long journey...
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
012345678901234567890123456789012
3
[quote][b]
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jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:45 pm Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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Martin:
Regarding the oil cooler, you are right. Looking from the front, it is pretty close to the firewall on the right side, and a few inches separated on the left side, and yes, air flow has to turn 90 degress to exit.
Jose
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT still high after cowling modification
Jose,
Your engine is going to run hot simply because it is tight. However, during this critical phase, where you need to run it reasonably hard to bed it in, you also need to manage the temps. Looking at the pics again, how does the cooling air to the oil cooler exit the cooler ? Are the fins close to the firewall and does the air have to turn through 90 degrees to pass through ?
Regardless of what jetting your engine came with, if it is indeed running lean, then larger jets are required. I'd suggest stripping the carb and determining what you have. If the needle jet is too small, often larger main jets won't have any effect. Check the float height, place a small washer under the needle ( unless you have one with multiple grooves and you can adjust it this way) and use about 2 sizes larger main jet. If the temps come down, then you are in the ball park....
Marty
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] Martin:
The engine now has 4.8 hours, still in break in. These readings were crusing at 2840 RPM. My needle jet is 2.76. I don't know the size of the main jet, but it is the same one that came with the engine back in January 2005. I understand that this was before the economy needles. Is it there a size of main jet and needle jet that you may recommend, at least to start trial and error?
Thanks!
Jose
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com (aerobiz1(at)gmail.com)>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification
Hi Jose,
Without taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding reason for your high temps.
The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I would address that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet and larger main jet.
If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. I figure your engine is still new and therefore tight, which doesn't help. Are those temp reading taken at full throttle or cruise ?
Martin
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi All:
On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest temperatures observed:
Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
CHT: 400 F
EGT: 1500 F
The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
I create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete installation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
Thanks for your support during this long journey...
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
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aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:57 pm Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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Jose,
There's part of your answer. Â Air does not like turning 90 degrees, and in fact, the incoming airflow to the cooler fins should not be more than about 8 degrees of being direct. Any more than 20 degrees and it will skip off the fins. Â You need to ensure a nice direct path to the cooling fins and sufficient space behind the cooler for the air to exit. Ideally into a low pressure area, but you can make up a divergent chamber that goes from the ear of the cooler to near the exit air at the bottom of the firewall. Â Â For a start, get the cooler away from the firewall so air can get through it, and possible mount it horizontally so the airflow is smoother....
Martin
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 8:42 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] Martin:
Â
Regarding the oil cooler, you are right. Looking from the front, it is pretty close to the firewall on the right side, and a few inches separated on the left side, and yes, air flow has to turn 90 degress to exit.
Â
Jose
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com (aerobiz1(at)gmail.com)>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification
Jose,
Your engine is going to run hot simply because it is tight. Â However, during this critical phase, where you need to run it reasonably hard to bed it in, you also need to manage the temps. Â Looking at the pics again, how does the cooling air to the oil cooler exit the cooler ? Â Are the fins close to the firewall and does the air have to turn through 90 degrees to pass through ?
Regardless of what jetting your engine came with, if it is indeed running lean, then larger jets are required. Â I'd suggest stripping the carb and determining what you have. If the needle jet is too small, often larger main jets won't have any effect. Â Check the float height, place a small washer under the needle ( unless you have one with multiple grooves and you can adjust it this way) Â and use about 2 sizes larger main jet. Â If the temps come down, then you are in the ball park....
Marty
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Martin:
Â
The engine now has 4.8 hours, still in break in. These readings were crusing at 2840 RPM. My needle jet is 2.76. I don't know the size of the main jet, but it is the same one that came with the engine back in January 2005. I understand that this was before the economy needles. Is it there a size of main jet and needle jet that you may recommend, at least to start trial and error?
Â
Thanks!
Â
Jose
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com (aerobiz1(at)gmail.com)>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification
Hi Jose,
Without taking measurements, from your pics I don't see any outstanding reason for your high temps.
The high EGT's indicate to me that you are running lean and I would address that first by checking float height, then use a larger needle jet and larger main jet.Â
If you get your EGT's down, CHT's etc should follow. Â I figure your engine is still new and therefore tight, which doesn't help. Â Are those temp reading taken at full throttle or cruise ?
Martin
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:38 AM, Jose M. Toro <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com (jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi All:
Â
On saturday, I performed the third flight on my Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 after modifying the cowling to improve the air exit. Following are the highest temperatures observed:
Â
Oil temp:231 F, Oil pressure: 27 psi
CHT: 400 F
EGT: 1500 F
Â
The change performed to the cowling made no difference on the observed temperatures. I changed the cht senders for the right cylinders, and have no reason to suspect that the readings are not accurate.
Â
I create the following album, Rans S6 Jab 2200 Cooling System, showing the complete installation.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/photos/album/884873074/pic/list
Â
I'm running out of tricks, and at this point am seriously considering Liquid Cooled Heads. Pete, Lynn, John, Rob and the other listers, based on my pictures, do you have any other recommendation?
Â
Thanks for your support during this long journey...
Â
Jose Toro
Rans S6ES/Jab 2200 Solid Lifters, SN 1905
_blank rel=nofollow>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank rel=nofollow>www.homebuilthelp.com
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_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
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="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
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ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
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[b]
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dons701
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 80
Location: Hershey, PA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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You only have 27PSI oil press. at 2840RPM ?? That to me is scary!
For what it's worth I run 285 needle jet, 245 main jet. This is a 2200 #2456 in a Zenith 701. After things are sorted out, change oil and filter. What air speeds are you cruising at?...DonB
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_________________
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop |
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jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:31 pm Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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Don:
Cruise is 100-105 mph. Flight was .5 hour. Oil pressure drops gradually. It flew at 31 psi for a while, oil temp continued increasing, and then oil pressure dropped to 27.
Jose
From: dons701 <burdon1(at)comcast.net>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 5:38 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "dons701" <burdon1(at)comcast.net (burdon1(at)comcast.net)>
You only have 27PSI oil press. at 2840RPM ?? That to me is scary!
For what it's worth I run 285 needle jet, 245 main jet. This is a 2200 #2456 in a Zenith 701. After things are sorted out, change oil and filter. What air speeds are you cruising at?...DonB.
--------
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matro; * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com; * HomebuiltHELP
[quote][b]
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mhubel
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:18 pm Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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Jose,
Assuming you are measuring the pressure at the "gallery" not at the
oil pump output as is often the case with Jabirus this is solvable. I
also have a 3300 and until I changed the oil filter adapter plate and
all the oil hoses I had the same low pressure. Now it sits at 40-45 PSI
under all conditions. Personally, I think some of the Jabiru problems
are caused by low oil pressure.
It this is the pressure at the oil pump (I believe the top hole)
then there is a real problem and should be fixed before further use as
the gallery pressure may be below 20.
--
Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com
978-443-3955
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_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com |
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jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: CHT still high after cowling modification |
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Mark:
My oil pressure is measured at the gallery.
Jose
From: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: CHT still high after cowling modification
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: Mark Hubelbank <mhubel(at)nemon.com (mhubel(at)nemon.com)>
Jose,
Assuming you are measuring the pressure at the "gallery" not at the oil pump output as is often the case with Jabirus this is solvable. I also have a 3300 and until I changed the oil filter adapter plate and all the oil hoses I had the same low pressure. Now it sits at 40-45 PSI under all conditions. Personally, I think some of the Jabiru problems are caused by low oil pressure.
It this is the pressure at the oil pump (I believe the top hole) then there is a real problem and should be fixed before further use as the gallery pressure may be below 20.
-- Mark Hubelbank
NorthEast Monitoring
2 Clock Tower Place
Suite 555
Maynard, MA, 01754 - USA
mhubel(at)nemon.com (mhubel(at)nemon.com)
978-443-3955
www.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www=======================
[quote][b]
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