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Wilson(at)REinfo.org
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:39 pm Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

OK, here it is in a nutshell.  I just purchased a Kitfox.  Love it.  

However, I only have 32 total hours of flying time.  That's all, and I 

have had one very scary landing.  I am strongly considering changing my 

plane to a nose gear configuration.  Help me here, does anyone know 

about a conversion kit?  Is it a good idea for as inexperienced as I am? 

 I really could use some input.

Steve Wilson

Wilson(at)REinfo.org

bnn(at)nethere.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

At 07:37 PM 5/23/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  However, I only have 32 total hours of flying time.  That's all, and I

have had one very scary landing.


	


Well. Let's see... I've got about 200 hours and have had about 100 scary 

landings. So... Your're way ahead of me! 

Guy

donpearsall
Guest

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

Steve, I am sure you will get lots of replies. My opinion is that it will be

a heck of a lot easier to convert the pilot than convert the airplane.



Every, I mean EVERY taildragger pilot has had scary landings. But as with

most things, practice makes perfect. You need more time, and training too. I

suggest getting some remedial training with a TD instructor, or even go

along with someone who has lots of time in a TD. You should arrange that

before you go out for your next flight. You don't need to damage the KF or

yourself.



As I said, you will be fine once you get some more technique down. Don't

despair, we have been there.



Don Pearsall



--

Ceashman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:37 am Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

 	  Quote: 	
		  >Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall"

>Every, I mean EVERY taildragger pilot has had scary landings.


	


I don't think so Don. What if you close your eyes when about 5 foot off? 

Nothing scary about that! (Only kidding)



 Steve, you say you have "only 32 hours of flying time"

Is this all aircraft and you are at the solo period? Or is this in a Kitfox?

But in 32 first hours in a new airplane, I think there should be about 40 to 

50 landings. And if the one scary landing was early then you have many 

landings that were good. If that scary landing was recently, then you probably found 

yourself in a cross wind or closed your eyes at the last minute, something 

like that.



Personally I think that all lead up to landings should be keeping me on edge. 

That doesn't suggest that it is scary but being on edge keeps me in front of 

all the action rather than behind. When with a passenger and on short final, 

if the passenger is a chatter box I tell him/her to be quiet THIS IS THE FIRST 

TIME THAT I AM DOINGTHIS, that gets them quiet and scares the pants off of 

them.

When I am behind, that is when it gets scary.

Hang in there, look at a instructor for some tailwheel time because tail 

wheel aircraft are so cool.



Eric.

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 3:23 am Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Ceashman(at)aol.com

 That doesn't suggest that it is scary but being on edge keeps me in front of 

 all the action rather than behind.


	


Exactly my opinion! Thank you, Eric, for writing it down.



Dear New Kitfox Pilot,

I was also a New Kitfox Pilot with now previous aviation experience, three years ago. I saw a Kitfox, it smiled at me and I bought her. Then people told me: "You can't fly that! A taildragger is not for a beginner!" But my father started flying, in 1938, on a taildragger! If I he could, I could too!

After 200 Kitfox hours, I just love it and, as Eric says, it's only a matter of keeping awake when you land. Please, think twice before making your Kitfox a tricycle.

Make sure your gears don't have too much toe-in or toe-out, that the tailwheel is properly fixed at a correct angle, the springs not too slack, your toe brakes not asymetric and all the other good advice you'll get on this list. 

Then avoid crosswind, turbulence and fly, fly a lot of touch and go. Last Sunday, I was up, doing only touch and go for one hour. It's fun, you learn, you know your plane like no one else, you are part of your plane, you are the pilot in command.

To start with, I was very scared with ... absolutely everything on a plane. But I wanted to fly. I am still scared but after each flight, I become more acquainted with my Kitfox and that's what it's all about ... for me.



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

morid(at)northland.lib.mi
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 3:34 am Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

I agree with Don's advice.  At 32 hours it doesn't matter if it's a

taildragger or nosewheel you'll still get some scary landings.  Much easier,

cheaper, and quicker to just get proficient at tailwheel.  Try to get

someone who will teach you in the KF and at some point it will just "click".

Doesn't really have to be a CFI for this--just someone who is good at it.

Deke



 	  Quote: 	
		   

<donpearsall(at)comcast.net>
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Steve, I am sure you will get lots of replies. My opinion is that it will

be
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   a heck of a lot easier to convert the pilot than convert the airplane.



 Every, I mean EVERY taildragger pilot has had scary landings. But as with

 most things, practice makes perfect. You need more time, and training too.

I
	


[quote] suggest getting some remedial training with a TD instructor, or even go

 along with someone who has lots of time in a TD. You should arrange that

 before you go out for your next flight. You don't need to damage the KF or

 yourself.



 As I said, you will be fine once you get some more technique down. Don't

 despair, we have been there.



 Don Pearsall



 --

dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:00 am Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

Hi Steve,



I have flown for nearly 3 decades in a multitude of aircraft and gear 

configurations.  You biggest issue here is lack of experience.



What training have you had so far in your flying career ?



You sound like your started in a tri-gear and they have a tendency to make a 

pilot lazy with his /her feet.



I would suggest get a min. of 5 hours tail time with a competent CFI in a 

Kitfox if possible.  the biggest part of flying is the landing and take off. 

If you cannot control  all three axises then you will have trouble landing. 

Always must keep your yaw under control and if you are lazy on feet, well 

you can veer off easily.

Best  Regards,



Dave

---

jeburke94je(at)hughes.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:02 am Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

Steve, I was in the same boat as you when I purchased my KF IV used in 2002. 

Only difference is I had 400 hours in a tricycle gear aircraft. I am lucky 

to have a CFI as a good friend, and enlisted his time to help me over come 

this wild thing I had put in my hanger. This is how the lessons went. First 

we went thru the basics of the tailwheel and a landing or two that he 

controlled. We then taxied back to the hanger and checked to see if there 

was fresh coffee and had a seat at the table. Now this may not work for 

every one but it worked great for me. My instructor told me to start taxing 

every chance and evening that I could. He told me after I had taxied and 

practiced ground work for 10 hrs,(slow,high speed,tail wheel up and down) He 

would take me up for my first solo landing with him in the seat as a backup. 

I have made every landing solo since then. I credit the 10 hrs of ground 

work before atemping my first landing for making the transition much easier 

in my case. I think having the skill needed to control the plane on the 

ground, is very inportent before attemping to make your first landing.



Jim N94JE

---

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:52 am Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

 	  Quote: 	
		  > practiced ground work for 10 hrs,(slow,high speed,tail wheel up and down) 

> He >>


	




Jim,

    No offence but I personally think that high speed taxi with the " tail 

up"  is for a more experienced tail wheel pilot.  When I first started, I 

couldn't even keep the Fox on the runway during take off (much less landing) 

and I was tail wheel certified.  However at the time, I hadn't flown a tail 

wheel for years.  When you are in a high speed taxi, you don't have enough 

airspeed to take off and a little side wind can ruin your day.  Just had a 

friend whose Son was a tailwheel certified CFI wipe out one wing tip on his 

Fox (groundloope).

    I would recommend getting some good CFI time and then fly with 

absolutely no wind for the first few times.  Then gradually add a little 

wind component.



Don Smythe

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:06 am Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

Hi Steve,



I read the other posts with good advice, and sorry if this is a repeat, but 

the first thing I would do is get out of th airplane stand at the tail and 

line up the airplane with a distant object. - vertical prop blade and 

vertical tail on a tree or rock or something..  Get into the airplane, 

settle comfortably in the pilots seat and with a grease pencil or thin strip 

of tape, mark the windsheld exactly where the distant object appears as you 

sit in your comfortable position.  That is straight ahead.



With the round cowl, there is a taper toward the spinner that is not 

apparent as you land and if you line up with the runway using the side of 

the cowl, like on a Cessna, you will be landing in a crab.  I used this 

technique and it helped a bunch and I trained in tailwheels from day one.



Lowell



---

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

Hey Steve.

   

  Good advice all around. I would only add that you should start and stay on grass untill you feel confident in your Fox's ground handling characteristics. I've reached the point now with 17 hrs on my Fox that I was feeling a little cocky. This week, I had an "interesting" landing on pavement in a cross wind. It's back to the grass for me!

  



Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

  



Hi Steve,



I read the other posts with good advice, and sorry if this is a repeat, but 

the first thing I would do is get out of th airplane stand at the tail and 

line up the airplane with a distant object. - vertical prop blade and 

vertical tail on a tree or rock or something.. Get into the airplane, 

settle comfortably in the pilots seat and with a grease pencil or thin strip 

of tape, mark the windsheld exactly where the distant object appears as you 

sit in your comfortable position. That is straight ahead.



With the round cowl, there is a taper toward the spinner that is not 

apparent as you land and if you line up with the runway using the side of 

the cowl, like on a Cessna, you will be landing in a crab. I used this 

technique and it helped a bunch and I trained in tailwheels from day one.



Lowell



---

jimmieblackwell(at)sbcglo
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:03 am Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

I agree with Don.  High speed taxi is dangerous for inexperienced tail wheel pilots.  Do get a lot of taxi time, just not high speed.

  You will love the Kitfox. I was 60 years old when I leaned to fly the Kitfox.  Now I would not even consider changing it to a tri-gear.  It is to much fun as a tail wheel airplane.

  Jimmie

Don Smythe <dosmythe(at)cox.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  > practiced ground work for 10 hrs,(slow,high speed,tail wheel up and down) 

> He >>

Jim,

No offence but I personally think that high speed taxi with the " tail 

up" is for a more experienced tail wheel pilot. When I first started, I 

couldn't even keep the Fox on the runway during take off (much less landing) 

and I was tail wheel certified. However at the time, I hadn't flown a tail 

wheel for years. When you are in a high speed taxi, you don't have enough 

airspeed to take off and a little side wind can ruin your day. Just had a 

friend whose Son was a tailwheel certified CFI wipe out one wing tip on his 

Fox (groundloope).

I would recommend getting some good CFI time and then fly with 

absolutely no wind for the first few times. Then gradually add a little 

wind component.

Don Smythe

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: Re: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

Lot's of good advice already so I'll just add my experience since it sounds similar to yours. I switched to my Kitfox after 20 hours of training and just after my first solo in a 172. Wasn't even done with my private ticket yet. Took me a while to find an instructor who would continue my training in the KF but it was worth the effort. After my first few lessons, I was also wondering if I had made a mistake switching to TD so soon but I stuck with it and now I'm glad I did. Cross wind landings are still scary to me so I just avoid anything over a 5mph cross wind component and I'm good to go.

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:30 am Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

some good tail wheel dual training will cost you less and benefit you in other ways.



John Kerr



-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "Steve Wilson" <Wilson(at)REinfo.org> 



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 OK, here it is in a nutshell. I just purchased a Kitfox. Love it. 

 However, I only have 32 total hours of flying time. That's all, and I 

 have had one very scary landing. I am strongly considering changing my 

 plane to a nose gear configuration. Help me here, does anyone know 

 about a conversion kit? Is it a good idea for as inexperienced as I am? 

 I really could use some input. 

 Steve Wilson 

 Wilson(at)REinfo.org 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

<html><body>
	


<DIV>some good tail wheel dual training will cost you less and benefit you in other ways.</DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

  List

mike
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: Re: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

Wow!  what a post, great advice given so far.  Now with me I started flying with the fox and had to go in a cessna for the final check ride(because the examiner would not fly in an experimental).  My instructor was tail wheel and he couldn't get the landings smooth on the fox, he referred to it as an untamed animal.  That was when the airplane was a long wing, now it's a short wing with spring gear, what a difference. I now have over 350 hours in the fox.  My landings are near perfect.  The last time I went flying my wife had to tell me something like, wow the wheels are turning, she didn't think we were down yet, and I was down for 15 seconds already.  My advice to anybody is to do a lot of approach to landings with holding off the runway for the entire length, you don't need to touch, it wears tires anyway, keep it straight and get use to slow flight, if not just over the runway, take it up 1000 ft. and slow flight and keep it straight to something on the ground.  



Lowells advice is a good one, I had to do it in the old days, that cowl is very deceiving.  After awhile you will clean it off.



The wing was the no. 1 best thing done on my airplane, the short wing handles better in all conditions.  Expecially in a cross wind. A couple flights ago I landed and was hit with a direct cross 12kt. wind, on arrival I was told that it was calm, but just as I touched down the sock next to me all the sudden went up and showed a cross, I quickly responded to the change, but didn't have any trouble, although the tower was trying to get me to respond for turning off the runway, I kept flying the airplane and ignored them.  Which you have to remember that flying the airplane is first and communication is second.  Seems he wanted a response just as I was touching down, and didn't like it that I ignored him.  I would have done the same thing if the winds were calm or down the runway, I give the landing 150% at all times.



I think if I had to do it all over I would still want the taildrag, I think the fox doesn't look right as a tri gear.  Although there are advantages to the nose gear, like taxing and turning off the runway to the right and if you end up changing that's just fine, it's your airplane, but you still need to know how to land the fox straight on the runway, or you will look funny still weaving all over the runway.



One last note on the kitfox, tail or tri is the stick needs to be aligned straight for level take off.  Best way to do this is fly on a calm day and mark on the panel where level flight is, then when you do your take off make sure the stick is in this possision, other wise when you take off that plane will dip to the side you favor, generally that is to the left in which you will be fighting to straighten things out.  Also on a cross wind take off my advice is to keep it level on the stick until lift off and then gently move the stick to the side for proper cross control, if by chance you have the stick aligned with the wind and you lift off you could end up like another fox I witnessed one time and came within inches of touching a wing tip on lift off, not good.

Wilson(at)REinfo.org
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

Eric,

My total time in the kitfox is only about 2 hours.  The other 30 hours was 

in a C172.  I'm brand new at this flying stuff.  I wanted to do it all my 

life but never have.  I'm now 56 years old and just starting out.  I feel 

like a young kid with a new toy and love to fly, but I also understand that 

I don't know enough to know I don't know enough.  I just bought the kitfox 

thinking I could fly it out of my pasture and go into the backcountry.  Now, 

I need a new prop and new landing gear!!

Steve Wilson



---

mike
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: Re: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

Steve,

I have one bit of advice to give to you, don't trust anybody in the aviation community, if I'm reading your post right, I wouldn't say any more about your flying experience.

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

Steve,

    You mention flying out of the old pasture.  A tail dragger is best for 

this kind of flying.  Also, your number of flying hours and the experience 

you mention don't quite add up.  As suggested, you might want to keep some 

secrets to yourself.  It almost sounds like you were flying that Fox without 

any tailwheel instruction.  If so, you did a pretty good job.

    When I was having trouble taming my Fox this list gave me the best 

advice.....GO PARK THE FOX IN THE HANGER and find a good tailwheel 

instructor.



Don Smythe

 	  Quote: 	
		   Eric,

 My total time in the kitfox is only about 2 hours.  The other 30 hours was

 in a C172.  I'm brand new at this flying stuff.  I wanted to do it all my

 life but never have.  I'm now 56 years old and just starting out.  I feel

 like a young kid with a new toy and love to fly, but I also understand 

 that

 I don't know enough to know I don't know enough.  I just bought the kitfox

 thinking I could fly it out of my pasture and go into the backcountry. 

 Now,

 I need a new prop and new landing gear!!

 Steve Wilson

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

Hi Steve,



You get the best advice here without a doubt.



Flying is not about risk taking, but risk control.



Like Lowell's example, you can control some risk with

just a piece of tape.  I have maybe 14,000 hours of

flying now and I will be flying a Boeing 767 tonight. 

But like Lowell suggested, I have a little red

"gunsight" on my KitFox windscreen and mine will stay

there.  When I haven't flown the Fox in a while, it

keeps me lined up.  When I have flown the Fox, I fly

everything else better.



This is like learning how to drive an automatic car,

then trying to teach yourself to drive a motorcycle,

having never ridden a bike before.  You are gonna fall

down.



Taildraggers are like motorcycles.  Lots of fun, but

only as safe as you make them.  So as suggested:



Tailwheel instruction



Grass runway



Taxi practice



Tape sight



Check gear alignment



Limit your cross winds



Then have so much fun getting it right your cheeks

hurt from smiling.



Don't skip any steps.  



Kurt S.



--- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:



[quote] Hi Steve,

 

 I read the other posts with good advice, and sorry

 if this is a repeat, but 

 the first thing I would do is get out of th airplane

 stand at the tail and 

 line up the airplane with a distant object. -

 vertical prop blade and 

 vertical tail on a tree or rock or something..  Get

 into the airplane, 

 settle comfortably in the pilots seat and with a

 grease pencil or thin strip 

 of tape, mark the windsheld exactly where the

 distant object appears as you 

 sit in your comfortable position.  That is straight

 ahead.

 

 With the round cowl, there is a taper toward the

 spinner that is not 

 apparent as you land and if you line up with the

 runway using the side of 

 the cowl, like on a Cessna, you will be landing in a

 crab.  I used this 

 technique and it helped a bunch and I trained in

 tailwheels from day one.

 

 Lowell

 

 ---

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

Flying is not about risk taking, but risk control. You are so right Kurt, 

well written. John A. Up there with ya on the hours but still a bit 

scared....

From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: New Kitfox Owner needing lots of help

Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 13:40:41 -0700 (PDT)

<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Hi Steve,

You get the best advice here without a doubt.

Flying is not about risk taking, but risk control.

Like Lowell's example, you can control some risk with

just a piece of tape.  I have maybe 14,000 hours of

flying now and I will be flying a Boeing 767 tonight.

But like Lowell suggested, I have a little red

"gunsight" on my KitFox windscreen and mine will stay

there.  When I haven't flown the Fox in a while, it

keeps me lined up.  When I have flown the Fox, I fly

everything else better.

This is like learning how to drive an automatic car,

then trying to teach yourself to drive a motorcycle,

having never ridden a bike before.  You are gonna fall

down.

Taildraggers are like motorcycles.  Lots of fun, but

only as safe as you make them.  So as suggested:

Tailwheel instruction

Grass runway

Taxi practice

Tape sight

Check gear alignment

Limit your cross winds

Then have so much fun getting it right your cheeks

hurt from smiling.

Don't skip any steps.  

Kurt S.

--- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

 > Hi Steve,

 >

 > I read the other posts with good advice, and sorry

 > if this is a repeat, but

 > the first thing I would do is get out of th airplane

 > stand at the tail and

 > line up the airplane with a distant object. -

 > vertical prop blade and

 > vertical tail on a tree or rock or something..  Get

 > into the airplane,

 > settle comfortably in the pilots seat and with a

 > grease pencil or thin strip

 > of tape, mark the windsheld exactly where the

 > distant object appears as you

 > sit in your comfortable position.  That is straight

 > ahead.

 >

 > With the round cowl, there is a taper toward the

 > spinner that is not

 > apparent as you land and if you line up with the

 > runway using the side of

 > the cowl, like on a Cessna, you will be landing in a

 > crab.  I used this

 > technique and it helped a bunch and I trained in

 > tailwheels from day one.

 >

 > Lowell

 >

 > ---

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