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Z11 architecture question

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gerf(at)gerf.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: Z11 architecture question

I'm in the process of "designing" my electrical system, 

more-or-less following diagram Z11.  I think I get the overall 

goal - near-automatic shedding of non-essential electrical load 

in the event of an alternator failure.  As my CFI drummed into 

my head over and over again during emergency procedure training 

"Fly the airplane !!" - you can't do that if you're head's 

inside the plane futzing with switches and breakers.



The problem I'm having is deciding what's non-essential and 

what's not.  Landing lights can be shut off in-route, but they 

become very desireable in the terminal area at night - for 

landing in "comfort".  Its almost as though you need 2 

essential buses - one for in-route and one for the terminal area.



Any thoughts ?



__g__



========================================================== 

Gerry Filby                                  gerf(at)gerf.com

                   Tel: 415 203 9177

----------------------------------------------------------

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Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.c
Guest

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject: Z11 architecture question

Gerry:



Went through this same thought process myself a short while ago and am now

hip deep in wiring.  But did get to turn my master switch on for the first

time the other day, and was pleased as punch to hear the battery contactor

thump and then be able to turn on my EFIS and light up the screen.  Very

cool.



Im a Z-13 guy, but I dont think you need to worry about near-terminal

operations.  This is short-time duration stuff and assuming you have a

properly maintained battery (which you WILL have lest Bob reach up and

personally grab you right out of the sky), you should be able to rely on

your battery to make up the extra amps during the time it takes you to get

on the ground.



Make sense?



Erich Weaver

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stevea(at)svpal.org
Guest

Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: Z11 architecture question

Gerry Filby wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm in the process of "designing" my electrical system, 

 more-or-less following diagram Z11.  I think I get the overall 

 goal - near-automatic shedding of non-essential electrical load 

 in the event of an alternator failure.



 The problem I'm having is deciding what's non-essential and 

 what's not.  Landing lights can be shut off in-route, but they 

 become very desireable in the terminal area at night - for 

 landing in "comfort".

   

Gerry,
	




Here is what is on my Z11 based e-bus (VFR day/night):  turn 

coordinator, boost pump, panel flood, GPS, COM/intercom, XPONER/encoder, 

electric elevator trim.  The full electrical system load is 20-30 amps, 

depending on flight configuration (takeoff, landing, cruise, day/night, 

etc.).  Max e-bus load (all e-bus loads ON) is 6.7 amps, typical e-bus 

load is 5 amps (boost pump OFF).  Everything on the e-bus has its own 

ON/OFF switch (built in or on the panel) except the turn coordinator and 

electric trim.  Minimum e-bus load (all switchable loads OFF) is 0.7 amps.



Landing lights are in the nice to have category, rather than essential 

(at least for me).  If really needed after an alternator failure my 

landing lights can be run by turning the master switch back ON and 

turning the landing lights ON.



At some point after the alternator quits running, switch/breaker 

settings must be dealt with.  The Z11 e-bus design does not eliminate 

dealing with switches, it just bypasses the no longer needed battery 

relay with an alternate e-bus feed (to drop the 1 amp relay load).  

Dealing with switches and breakers does not have to be done 

immediately.  It is ok to take a few minutes (after a few choice words 

about the alternator       ) to run through the alternator failure 

checklist.  Here's mine:



alternate e-bus feed ON

master OFF

panel flood AS REQUIRED

avionics AS REQUIRED

terminate flight as soon as practical

Steve

RV-6A  ......  under construction.......still

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gerf(at)gerf.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 8:47 am Post subject: Z11 architecture question

Thanks all - that seems to make sense.



g



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 <stevea(at)svpal.org>

 

 Gerry Filby wrote:

 > I'm in the process of "designing" my electrical system, 

 > more-or-less following diagram Z11.  I think I get the overall 

 > goal - near-automatic shedding of non-essential electrical load 

 > in the event of an alternator failure.

 >

 > The problem I'm having is deciding what's non-essential and 

 > what's not.  Landing lights can be shut off in-route, but they 

 > become very desireable in the terminal area at night - for 

 > landing in "comfort".

 >   

 Gerry,

 

 Here is what is on my Z11 based e-bus (VFR day/night):  turn 

 coordinator, boost pump, panel flood, GPS, COM/intercom, 

 XPONER/encoder, 

 electric elevator trim.  The full electrical system load is 20-30 amps, 

 depending on flight configuration (takeoff, landing, cruise, day/night, 

 etc.).  Max e-bus load (all e-bus loads ON) is 6.7 amps, typical e-bus 

 load is 5 amps (boost pump OFF).  Everything on the e-bus has its own 

 ON/OFF switch (built in or on the panel) except the turn 

 coordinator and 

 electric trim.  Minimum e-bus load (all switchable loads OFF) 

 is 0.7 amps.

 

 Landing lights are in the nice to have category, rather than essential 

 (at least for me).  If really needed after an alternator failure my 

 landing lights can be run by turning the master switch back ON and 

 turning the landing lights ON.

 

 At some point after the alternator quits running, switch/breaker 

 settings must be dealt with.  The Z11 e-bus design does not eliminate 

 dealing with switches, it just bypasses the no longer needed battery 

 relay with an alternate e-bus feed (to drop the 1 amp relay load).  

 Dealing with switches and breakers does not have to be done 

 immediately.  It is ok to take a few minutes (after a few choice words 

 about the alternator       ) to run through the alternator failure 

 checklist.  Here's mine:

 

 alternate e-bus feed ON

 master OFF

 panel flood AS REQUIRED

 avionics AS REQUIRED

 terminate flight as soon as practical

 

 

 Steve

 RV-6A  ......  under construction.......still

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

  

  

 

 

 

 


	


-- 

__g__



========================================================== 

Gerry Filby                                  gerf(at)gerf.com

                   Tel: 415 203 9177

----------------------------------------------------------

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:36 am Post subject: Z11 architecture question

At 12:00 PM 5/18/2006 -0700, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

I'm in the process of "designing" my electrical system,

more-or-less following diagram Z11.  I think I get the overall

goal - near-automatic shedding of non-essential electrical load

in the event of an alternator failure.  As my CFI drummed into

my head over and over again during emergency procedure training

"Fly the airplane !!" - you can't do that if you're head's

inside the plane futzing with switches and breakers.



The problem I'm having is deciding what's non-essential and

what's not.  Landing lights can be shut off in-route, but they

become very desireable in the terminal area at night - for

landing in "comfort".  Its almost as though you need 2

essential buses - one for in-route and one for the terminal area.



Any thoughts ?


	


   Re-read Chapter 17 and then change "essential bus" to "endurance

   bus".  The e-bus was not crafted to help you deal with an

   electrical emergency . . . but to keep your failure from becoming

   an electrically induced emergency.



   Stuff that goes on the e-bus are those items needed for continued

   comfortable flight sans alternator . . . hopefully for as much

   as duration of fuel aboard. When you have airport in sight and

   are cleared to land, then turn the battery master back on and

   use up whatever is left in the battery . . . if it makes it

   all the way to the ramp, great. If it dies right then, it

   doesn't matter.



   Better yet . . .  pitch the pump, install an SD8 and have

   UNLIMITED endurance under e-bus ops with 100% of battery retained

   for approach to landing. But in any case, we craft to avoid

   needing words like emergency, essential, critical, etc. etc.



      ---------------------------------------------------------

      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >

      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >

      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >

      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >

      < with experiment.                                      >

      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >

      ---------------------------------------------------------

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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gerf(at)gerf.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: Z11 architecture question

Thanks Bob ... chapter re-read, and I see your point.



g



(There never was a pump and never will be 

 	  Quote: 	
		   >Any thoughts ?

 

    Re-read Chapter 17 and then change "essential bus" to "endurance

    bus".  The e-bus was not crafted to help you deal with an

    electrical emergency . . . but to keep your failure from becoming

    an electrically induced emergency.

 

    Stuff that goes on the e-bus are those items needed for continued

    comfortable flight sans alternator . . . hopefully for as much

    as duration of fuel aboard. When you have airport in sight and

    are cleared to land, then turn the battery master back on and

    use up whatever is left in the battery . . . if it makes it

    all the way to the ramp, great. If it dies right then, it

    doesn't matter.

 

    Better yet . . .  pitch the pump, install an SD8 and have

    UNLIMITED endurance under e-bus ops with 100% of battery retained

    for approach to landing. But in any case, we craft to avoid

    needing words like emergency, essential, critical, etc. etc.

 

 

 

 

 

       ---------------------------------------------------------

       < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >

       < the authority which determines whether there can be   >

       < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >

       < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >

       < with experiment.                                      >

       <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >

       ---------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

  

  

 

 

 

 


	


-- 

__g__



========================================================== 

Gerry Filby                                  gerf(at)gerf.com

                   Tel: 415 203 9177

----------------------------------------------------------

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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