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BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:12 pm Post subject: Weight & Balance |
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List,
My friend Tom has a 601 XL "B" similar to mine.
Both have Jab.3300 engines and similar instrument panels. The question is why the difference in nose wheel weights.
His wheel weights are RW 290.2 LW 306.6 and 200.2 on the nose. Total Weight 797#. My weights are RW 272 LW 290 and 241 on the nose. Total weight is 803. With only 6 pounds difference in total weight there is 41 pounds more on my nose wheel than his. He also has a larger battery on the firewall where mine is also located. We both have Icom Radio, Garmin Transponders, a mix of Electronic and Steam gauges in the panels. Can we get several builders with the near same set up to post their weights?? Can anyone tell why the difference??
With 2 people on board I can fly to min. fuel without going aft the CG limit. Tom has to land with 10 - 11 gal. of fuel on board to stay in the published limits.
Both of us have checked the weights several times with different scales.
Bobby
N131BP
134 hrs
Jab. 3300
[quote][b]
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graeme(at)coletoolcentre.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:43 pm Post subject: Weight & Balance |
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Question were both planes set up for weight and balance in the flying attitude.
this can have some effect as the weight distribution over the back wheel changes
graemecns
[quote] ---
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merlin
Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Fair Play, S.C.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:28 pm Post subject: Weight & Balance |
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Are the main gear legs positioned the same? I.e. slanted fwd or rearward.
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 14, 2011, at 4:40 PM, "Graeme(at)Coletoolentre" <graeme(at)coletoolcentre.com.au (graeme(at)coletoolcentre.com.au)> wrote:
[quote] Question were both planes set up for weight and balance in the flying attitude.
this can have some effect as the weight distribution over the back wheel changes
graemecns
[quote] ---
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careywf(at)sbcglobal.net
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:36 pm Post subject: Weight & Balance |
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Bobby,
Check to see if maybe the one-piece aluminum landing gear on each airplane is installed differently. Check distance of main gear from backside of firewall to forward edgle of one-piece gear. Also check to see if the gear on each airplane is installed the same way, taper edge or flat edge pointed in the same direction. Differences in either could possibly explain differences in nose weight and CG. Landing with 10-11 gallons of fuel left to stay within the CG needs to be fixed if at all possible. That's a waste of good flying time and could become dangerous.
Walt Carey
601XL (50% complete)
Jabiru 3300A
Beavercreek, OH
From: "BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net" <BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net>
To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, December 14, 2011 4:07:43 PM
Subject: Weight & Balance
p {margin:0;} List,
My friend Tom has a 601 XL "B" similar to mine.
Both have Jab.3300 engines and similar instrument panels. The question is why the difference in nose wheel weights.
His wheel weights are RW 290.2 LW 306.6 and 200.2 on the nose. Total Weight 797#. My weights are RW 272 LW 290 and 241 on the nose. Total weight is 803. With only 6 pounds difference in total weight there is 41 pounds more on my nose wheel than his. He also has a larger battery on the firewall where mine is also located. We both have Icom Radio, Garmin Transponders, a mix of Electronic and Steam gauges in the panels. Can we get several builders with the near same set up to post their weights?? Can anyone tell why the difference??
With 2 people on board I can fly to min. fuel without going aft the CG limit. Tom has to land with 10 - 11 gal. of fuel on board to stay in the published limits.
Both of us have checked the weights several times with different scales.
Bobby
N131BP
134 hrs
Jab. 3300
[quote][b]www.aeroelectric.com</ * HomebuiltHELP http://www.matronics.com/Navig [b]
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mhubel
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:29 pm Post subject: Weight & Balance |
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Bobby,
The numbers I got are:
Right: 323lb 631 mm
left: 341lb 631 mm
nose: 277lb -510mm
Of note is that this can still generate an aft CG under some reasonable sounding conditions. I am working on that. A significant item is that the datum distances were a bit different from some other Zenith numbers I had seen. These are measured numbers. One should check that both planes really have exactly the same measurements. These measurements are to the center of the axles.
Mark Hubelbank
Ch601XL-B
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich adj prop
Rotec TBI-40-3
175 Hours airframe
On 12/14/2011 4:07 PM, BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net (BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net) wrote: | Quote: | p { margin: 0; } List,
My friend Tom has a 601 XL "B" similar to mine.
Both have Jab.3300 engines and similar instrument panels. The question is why the difference in nose wheel weights.
His wheel weights are RW 290.2 LW 306.6 and 200.2 on the nose. Total Weight 797#. My weights are RW 272 LW 290 and 241 on the nose. Total weight is 803. With only 6 pounds difference in total weight there is 41 pounds more on my nose wheel than his. He also has a larger battery on the firewall where mine is also located. We both have Icom Radio, Garmin Transponders, a mix of Electronic and Steam gauges in the panels. Can we get several builders with the near same set up to post their weights?? Can anyone tell why the difference??
With 2 people on board I can fly to min. fuel without going aft the CG limit. Tom has to land with 10 - 11 gal. of fuel on board to stay in the published limits.
Both of us have checked the weights several times with different scales.
Bobby
N131BP
134 hrs
Jab. 3300
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_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com |
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DaveG601XL
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:44 am Post subject: Re: Weight & Balance |
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My numbers are more similar to your friends, but I do not need a bunch of fuel to stay inside the rear limit. I have a Jabiru 3300, gear flat side forward, XL-B upgrade.
R=283(at)625mm
L=299(at)625mm
N=207(at)-530mm
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David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area |
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BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:11 am Post subject: Weight & Balance |
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p { margin: 0; }p { margin: 0; }p { margin: 0; }p { margin: 0; }Thanks Mark and Others who responded.
Both aircraft have the gear slanted forward. Both aircraft were leveled in pitch and roll axis on the scales.
Nose wheel is 200.2# at -508 mm. Right wheel is 290.2# at 657.224 and Left wheel is 306.6# at 650.875
Mark
If you notice the nose wheel is only 2 mm difference from yours while the mains are over 20 mm. difference. By your numbers your aircraft is 941 lbs. I do not understand how it can be that heavy. I also have a problem with some light weights showing 730 Lbs. with multicolored paint jobs.
I am not doubting anyone - just looking for a logical explanation.
Bobby
[quote][b]
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mhubel
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:43 am Post subject: Weight & Balance |
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Bobby,
I should have stated that the weights posted were with full (30 gal) fuel. Take 180 pounds off to get the empty weight of 761. It was more like 730 before the "upgrade". There is no paint. I have been reluctant to add the weight of paint aft of the wing.
Other than some error in wheel location measurement, I have no ideas why the two planes you are checking are so different. Once, I did make an aircraft weight measurement error by leaving a rope attached to the tail. It was a very small weight error but way back there it made a big difference in CG. Just saying something small at the very tail or nose could make a disproportional difference.
I personally believe the Jabiru engine mounts are too short. For the weight of the engine, it should have been further forward in this design.
On 12/15/2011 10:09 AM, BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net (BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net) wrote: | Quote: | p { margin: 0; } p { margin: 0; } p { margin: 0; } p { margin: 0; } p { margin: 0; } Thanks Mark and Others who responded.
Both aircraft have the gear slanted forward. Both aircraft were leveled in pitch and roll axis on the scales.
Nose wheel is 200.2# at -508 mm. Right wheel is 290.2# at 657.224 and Left wheel is 306.6# at 650.875
Mark
If you notice the nose wheel is only 2 mm difference from yours while the mains are over 20 mm. difference. By your numbers your aircraft is 941 lbs. I do not understand how it can be that heavy. I also have a problem with some light weights showing 730 Lbs. with multicolored paint jobs.
I am not doubting anyone - just looking for a logical explanation.
Bobby
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| | - The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List |
|
_________________
Mark Hubelbank
N708HU
CH601XL
Jabiru 3300
Rotec TBI 40-3 carb
Sensenich ground adj prop.
240 hr TAF
Pictures at photo.hubbles.com |
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