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Bing 64 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

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Thruster87

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: Bing 64 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

ZENITH 601xlB 

How much difference is there in the operation of the idle stage [fitted in a 3300A] once it has been drilled out to 1.6mm ?? and what is the approx number of turns from stop are you setting the idle screw? I'm still working on getting the temps OK thru out the range Cheers T87

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Bing 64 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

T87,



First, the Bing fitted to Jabiru engines (2200 and 3300) is a 94. The 64 is used on Rotax 912 series engines.



Which jet drilled out to 1.6 mm are you talking about? Some folks have enlarged the idle AIR inlet as part of the "economy tuning kit" installation, some have enlarged the jet in the bottom corner of the float bowl.



If your question about the idle screw refers to the idle MIXTURE screw on the bottom of the carb, for winter weather it should be turned out about 1 to 1.25 turns from gentle stop. Turning out enriches mixture. For summer temps, a good starting point is about 3/4 turn out (a bit leaner than winter). 



Thom Riddle

https://sites.google.com/site/riddletr/a&pmechanix

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Thruster87

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Bing 64 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

 	  Thom Riddle wrote: 	
		  T87,



First, the Bing fitted to Jabiru engines (2200 and 3300) is a 94. The 64 is used on Rotax 912 series engines.



Which jet drilled out to 1.6 mm are you talking about? Some folks have enlarged the idle AIR inlet as part of the "economy tuning kit" installation, some have enlarged the jet in the bottom corner of the float bowl.



If your question about the idle screw refers to the idle MIXTURE screw on the bottom of the carb, for winter weather it should be turned out about 1 to 1.25 turns from gentle stop. Turning out enriches mixture. For summer temps, a good starting point is about 3/4 turn out (a bit leaner than winter). 



Thom Riddle

https://sites.google.com/site/riddletr/a&pmechanix 	
                                                                                                 As per Jabiru Service Bulletin JSB 018-2. Which states that As standard the inlet to idle jet circuit is too small and does not flow enough air.Cheers

wb2ssj(at)rochester.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:16 am Post subject: Bing 64 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

There seems to be a difference of opion here. My jabiru has a model 64 carb 

and turning the mixture screw out will let more air (thus a leaner mixture) 

and in makes the mixture richer.

See page 17 of the Bing manual



Tex



---

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Bing 64 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

Tex,

You are partly right. The very early Jabiru engines had the Bing 64. I was not aware there were any of those still flying.



The reference you made from the Bing Manual must be about the Bing 54 carbs, which indeed does operate the way you describe.  In the attached excerpt from the manual on Bing 64, it clearly states that turning the idle mixture screw ccw (anit-clockwise) richens the idle mixture. This is the same on all of Bing's CV carbs including the Bing 64 and 94 series.

Bing64idlingsystem.jpg

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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

pete(at)usjabiru.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:12 am Post subject: Bing 64 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

Tex,



You may be the only owner I've ever talked to that has a idle mixture screw

that controls the air.  All idle mixture screws on all Bing carbs I've ever

seen on Jabiru engines control the fuel flow to the idle circuit.  Turning

the screw out (counter clockwise) will increase fuel flow giving richer

mixture.  



Pete Krotje

Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC

931-680-2800

www.usjabiru.com



--

Thruster87

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Bing 94 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

I've been having trouble getting my mixtures correct as on turning base and bringing back the rpm below 2000 it starts to surge down to 1500rpm and then up 300 rpm and if I pull back below 1500 it surges and then stops.On the ground all seems OK, idles at 800rpm and static runs to 2800 rpm with no surging.It is still set to factory jetting [3300A solid lifter with 30hrs only].What I have done so far is to pull the induction system apart and re-seal it.Drilled out the LLD to 1.5mm and trying with diff positions for the mixture adj.1/4 turn back from fully screwed up into the carb and then turning clockwise 1 full turn. with still the same results  but running a bit hotter.Checked fuel bowl level OK. Any ideas  [looking at changing the jetting next] Carby fed by engine driven pump and electric pump. On a 601xlb

Clive J

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:30 am Post subject: Bing 64 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

Can you not set the idle mixture with the engine running? 

You can find the spread of screw position where it will run smoothly (rich to lean and back to rich) and then try either end to see what's best when flying.



Certainly a strange one.



Regards, Clive



--

Clive J

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: Bing 64 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

Alan, full marks for your perseverance in the air with a problem that

would leave some on the ground.



What's the fuel supply set up?. In a Thruster I assume you still have

mechanical and  electric pumps?

As the engine works fine through most of the envelope it is indeed a

tricky one. 

Your mention of 4500 , for testing setting up an approach at height? 

IE simulate the approach at 4000 feet or so you can feel around to see

what has an effect with plenty of time to get her going again.



So, throttle closed and descending we are on the idle system and there

is assistance from the windmill effect but then she stops.

How long does it take to come on?

Is it every time you adopt the approach set up?

Do you have carb heat? If so do you always put it on? What happens if

you don't? Is it carb ice conditions (check the graph)

What revs sustains the engine? Does your plane have the kamikaze dive

approach angle? (flying brick, nose down) or is it a newer one

Just thinking out loud.....



--

Thruster87

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Bing 64 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

 	  Clive J wrote: 	
		  Alan, full marks for your perseverance in the air with a problem that

would leave some on the ground.



What's the fuel supply set up?. In a Thruster I assume you still have

mechanical and  electric pumps?

As the engine works fine through most of the envelope it is indeed a

tricky one. 

Your mention of 4500 , for testing setting up an approach at height? 

IE simulate the approach at 4000 feet or so you can feel around to see

what has an effect with plenty of time to get her going again.



So, throttle closed and descending we are on the idle system and there

is assistance from the windmill effect but then she stops.

How long does it take to come on?

Is it every time you adopt the approach set up?

Do you have carb heat? If so do you always put it on? What happens if

you don't? Is it carb ice conditions (check the graph)

What revs sustains the engine? Does your plane have the kamikaze dive

approach angle? (flying brick, nose down) or is it a newer one

Just thinking out loud.....



-- 	
Hi Clive The aircraft is a newly built  601xlb [sold the Thruster T300]still at the early stages of getting the fine tuning done.This plane handles,flys and glides very well with no issues there.OAT 20-30 c not in ice conditions.Hard to recall times as you are pretty well occupied  on concentrating on the landing phase.It may take a while to nut this one out  but I'm not in a hurry.I'm more interested in the learning experience as my background is an LAME  [707.747 mainly, know bugger all about piston engines other then the theory learned about 40yrs ago]

Thruster87

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Bing 64 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

Found the fault,a blocked balance tube also adjusted the float level up a couple of mm and it purrs like a kitten.Just waiting for the weather to fine up [been the wettest Feb in OZ for decades] to go for a fly. Cheers

chris Sinfield

Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 270
Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:22 am Post subject: Re: Bing 64 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

Hi mate 



so how was it blocked..

is it something to watch when doing an install?

Chris..

Thruster87

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 193
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Bing 64 Idle circuit inlet aperture drilling 3300A

 	  chris Sinfield wrote: 	
		  Hi mate 



so how was it blocked..

is it something to watch when doing an install?

Chris.. 	
A small screw like the one on the back of a computer case was screwed into the carbi bayonet fitting and the hose was put over it and clamped on .That's how it came from the ????[this was a new old stock from a builder] as the carbi  was already on the new engine and in hindsight I should have given it a pressure test before putting on the other end onto the air filter box.So it turned out what Jabiru advised me to check was spot on. Cheers

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