aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:21 pm Post subject: Re : Oversized valve guides supplied with the engine from n |
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Hi Clive,
Hope the New Year brings some Jabiru joy !
With regard to your comment about valve guide lubrication, it should be said that any modern engine that I can think of has valve stem seals to keep oil out of the combustion chamber, and all these engines are running unleaded fuels, so no help from lead in lubricating them either.
Cheers
Martin
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 4:45 AM, James, Clive R <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)> wrote:
[quote]
3300 around serial number 1460
2200 around serial 2279
Might not be the case but the vintage is similar and the story the same, excess oil consumption, blowing engine, brown rocker cavities. Many broken valves have been associated with ‘worn’ valves guides but there is evidence here that the guides were manufactured oversized and later the problems were blamed on anything but the supply of oversized guides.
We all know Jabiru’s responsible attitude………. admitting the problems they caused, recalling engines, supplying parts at their cost and labour.
No? Me neither, always installation faults, overheating, operational issues, fuel problems, sorry if I sound bitter but I am.
On a brighter note I flew the 3300 in my Esqual for 2 hours since rebuild and providing the oil temperature is kept low, below 100c the oil pressure stays OK. Compressions still OK…..
Still plan a complete strip down with replacement of the undersized through bolts ( see Rec flying thread on the problem and the solution), change of the main shells and the drive end shells, conversion to solid lifter ( to match the cam ), seal the casings ( so I can occasionally throttle back when hot without oil light coming on) and she’ll be a ‘late solid lifter’ the classic Jabiru which everyone now wishes they had.
BTW, does anyone else think valves stems are OK without lubrication?
Well, all those with hollow pushrods must think it’s OK as that is what you’ve got, isn’t it? Rather you than me!
Rant over, seriously though consider the valve guide issue if you have a similar vintage engine as the numbers above.
New Year resolution….get over the fact I have a ‘lemon’ ……get it fixed……and fly lots of hours to make me smile and forget the hassle and expense.
As yesterday a sweetly performing and ‘sorted’ Jabiru is a fine engine to fly behind.
Best wishes for 2012, Clive
P.S. keep right away from the rumoured new Jabiru engine until it has 1000hrs of flying school time on it (and has survived).
From: Janssen Alfred [mailto:fjanssen27(at)yahoo.com (fjanssen27(at)yahoo.com)]
Sent: 29 December 2011 18:07
To: James, Clive R
Subject: Re : Oversized valve guides
Clive.
My engine serial number is 2279, "well or sadly know"as "early hydraulic lifters engine...", purchased on 2006.
To my opinion, you are right, the only possibility was oversized valves guides on factory, probabely soved since !
I agree with Roger, when he mentionned, the very important effect of oil flow to cool valves guides, and suspect also new pusrods system, may not be an advantage in regard of this aspect ?
I can say than right now, I don't have anymore :
- brown residues,
- oil blowing in the bottle,
- excessive oil consumtion.
Regards, Freddy.
De : "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)>
À : jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com (jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com); jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Cc : fjanssen27(at)yahoo.com (fjanssen27(at)yahoo.com)
Envoyé le : Jeudi 29 Décembre 2011 14h10
Objet : RE: Oversized valve guides
Alfred, your engine seems to be about the same vintage as mine. What is the serial number?
On your blog you mention the valve guides were worn. I suggest that wasn’t the case, I suggest was built. Mine were, I discovered it after only 37 hrs flying (well Roger did). I had the same issues as you with discoloration in the rocker cavities.
If anyone is having excessive oil blowing in the bottle and they have a brown residue in the pipe/bottle I suggest they check the valve guides.
Anyone with a 3300 of around the serial number 1460 should be aware of this issue and look in the rocker boxes. Unless it’s clean carry out a measurement of the valve movement with a dial gauge as Alfred shows in one of his pictures.
Jabiru won’t have anything to do with my heads as I had them inspected and the guides changed by an engineer that is no longer working for the UK dealer (the dealer changed).
They won’t even refund the price of the guides even though I have offered to send them the old ones but I never expected them to….
I like your comments at the bottom of your blog. Sums up the Jabiru engine situation….
Regards, Clive
http://jabiru-engine-inspect-400.blogspot.com/
[However, the attitude of JABIRU, trying to blame the problems of design, improper use, (EGT, fuel, propeller, etc ...) contribute to deterioration poor reputation of the engine, poor reputation unfortunately justified by the continual technical design and manufacturing changes over last months.
This engine is not fully bad, it is light, simple, pleasant usage. If JABIRU had begun redesigning and lubricating valve guides, the builder would have proved a real awareness of the interest of its customers.
In fact for over two years that the problems of valves are well known, JABIRU, has never officially disclosed, especially on the causes and remedies as for THRUE.
"Services Bulletins " on vent hole in the cylinder heads, on EGT parameters , the use of fuels, etc. will never prevent a broken valve if the engine is initially limit wear tolerances.
To my knowledge, JABIRU never édit "Service Bulletin ", to advise than large orange-brown traces in the rockers cavities, is the beginning of wear in valves guides resulting in a possible valve failure. It is my own opinion and the result of my last experience with this engine.
I hope to help raise awareness, preventive replacement of a valve guides must be adapted when the appearance of orange-brown traces in the rockers cavities (JABIRU syndrome, as some say) to avoid the risk of an engine failure in flight .]
From: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com (jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com) [mailto:jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com (jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com)] On Behalf Of Janssen Alfred
Sent: 16 December 2011 17:24
To: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com (jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com)
Subject: Re : [jabiruengines] Re: Oil System (no OCA, no TOCA)
Hi.
I never fit the oil cooler on the standard port with the JABIRU OCA due to restrictive flow.
Since 3 years now over 300 hours, (500 total), I fit the oil cooler on oil circuitsto feed heads cylinders.
Main advantage is to bring coolest oil on hottest parts of the engine, and prevent any restrictive flow to the oil pump.
(Sorry for my approximative english language).
See : Modification N°2;
________________________________
De : roger lewis <rogerpl88(at)yahoo.co.uk ([email]rogerpl88%40yahoo.co.uk[/email])>
À : "jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]jabiruengines%40yahoogroups.com[/email])" <jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]jabiruengines%40yahoogroups.com[/email])>
Envoyé le : Vendredi 16 Décembre 2011 13h19
Objet : Re: [jabiruengines] Re: Oil System
Chuck,
Human nature is such that we tend to 'see' what we want to 'see' so I missed the ambiguity of your statement 'flows through the 3/4 inch center post back to the sump'.
The oil of course flows through the 3/4 center post into the main gallery which feeds the hyd valves, the rocker chambers, the main bearings, the big end bearings etc. Having done all the important work of lubricating and removing heat it then goes back into the sump and the cycle begins again.
________________________________
From: cffd66 <cffd66(at)yahoo.com ([email]cffd66%40yahoo.com[/email])>
To: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]jabiruengines%40yahoogroups.com[/email])
Sent: Friday, 16 December 2011, 4:45
Subject: [jabiruengines] Re: Oil System
Here is what I have gathered. The "just hole" is where the oil comes from the pump, with an OCA the oil goes to the oil cooler from the bottom of the OCA, returns from the oil cooler to the top of the OCA where the oil enters the openings in the bottom of the oil filter, the oil then flows from the outside of the filter element to the inside where it then flows through the 3/4 inch center post back to the sump. If the filter or oil lines get plugged, the oil flows from the "just hole" to the pressure relief valve behind the circlip (the other hole), all this happens on the bottom side of the OCA.
Chuck D.
--- In jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]jabiruengines%40yahoogroups.com[/email]), Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)... ([email]lynnmatt(at)...[/email])> wrote:
| Quote: |
> I think it's more than semantics, Roger....someone might perceive
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| Quote: | from your statement that you did not know *how* the oil flowed,
meaning (to me) that you did not understand the path, and I think I
> know enough about you that I know that you do in fact understand the
|
| Quote: | flow. If you were to say that you don't know *why* the oil flows as
it does, this suggests to me that you might be questioning Jabiru's
> reasoning for doing the flow path like they did.
|
| Quote: |
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
|
| Quote: | Status: flying with 1204 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
On Dec 15, 2011, at 11:17 AM, roger lewis wrote:
> mmmmm ....... semantics
> >
|
| Quote: | >
> ________________________________
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)... ([email]lynnmatt(at)...[/email])>
> To: jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]jabiruengines%40yahoogroups.com[/email])
> > Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2011, 16:12
|
| Quote: | > Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Oil System
>
>
>
> I'm sure you meant difficult to see WHY the oil flows as it does, and
> > not HOW it flows as it does, eh, Roger?
|
| Quote: | >
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062
> Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> > Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
|
| Quote: | > Status: flying with 1204 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
>
> On Dec 15, 2011, at 11:02 AM, roger lewis wrote:
>
>> The 'just a hole' is an important hole as that is where all the oil
> >> from the oil pump comes from.
|
| Quote: | >>
>> The circlip and washer is the pressure relief valve that opens to
>> allow oil to be dumped back into the sump.
>>
> >> Now the difficult bit (for me) is to see how the oil flows from the
|
| Quote: | >> oil pump hole, cooled in the cooler and filtered before going into
>> the main gallery.
>>
> >>
|
| Quote: | >> ________________________________
>> From: Charles Deiterich <cffd66(at)... ([email]cffd66(at)...[/email])>
>> To: jablist <jabiruengines(at)yahoogroups.com ([email]jabiruengines%40yahoogroups.com[/email])>
> >> Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2011, 15:47
|
| Quote: | >> Subject: [jabiruengines] Oil System
>>
>>
>>
>> Recently, I removed my Jab 2200 oil cooler adapter. Under it are
> >> three openings in the case. The first in the center is a threaded
|
| Quote: | >> post for the oil filter/OCA attachment, the second is just below
>> with a circlip and washer, the third to the left and slightly above
> >> seems to be just a hole. What is the function of the last two holes?
|
| Quote: | >>
>> Chuck D.
>> N701TX
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
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| Quote: | >>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
> >>
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| Quote: | >> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
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| Quote: | >
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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