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Center of Radius Elevator

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pdelano(at)telus.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:22 pm Post subject: Center of Radius Elevator

Hi all,

 

Would like to confirm before drilling the skin for the elevator what is meant by center of radius for the skin and nose rib. I have measured from the bent flange 450 mm and then from the unbent flange 465 mm which coincided with the mark for the 450 mm measurement. I am assuming what is meant by the center of radius is the mark 8  mm above the centerline of the rear rib projected to through the tip rib but I would like to be sure.

 

Help in clarifying this and some way to do a sanity check would be appreciated.

 

 

  [quote][b]

dougsnash

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 am Post subject: Center of Radius Elevator

Perry, just for clarification, which model are we talking about?

 

Doug M

CH-701 from scratch

NW Ontario, Canada

 

Do Not Archive

     

  From: Perry Delano <pdelano(at)telus.net>

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2012 5:17:21 PM

 Subject: Zenith701801-List: Center of Radius Elevator

  

Hi all,

  

Would like to confirm before drilling the skin for the elevator what is meant by center of radius for the skin and nose rib. I have measured from the bent flange 450 mm and then from the unbent flange 465 mm which coincided with the mark for the 450 mm measurement. I am assuming what is meant by the center of radius is the mark 8  mm above the centerline of the rear rib projected to through the tip rib but I would like to be sure.

  

Help in clarifying this and some way to do a sanity check would be appreciated.

  

  



   [quote]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-http://www.matronics.com/contribution" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">h


[b]

pdelano(at)telus.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:55 am Post subject: Center of Radius Elevator

Hi Doug,

 

It is a 701. Further to my query, although the plans seem to make it pretty clear that the 18mm bent flange on the elevator skin is on the top, which coincides with the hard copy of the photo assembly guide (Rev. 1.1) I got with the plans, The DVD photo assembly guide Rev. 1.2  I bought recently from Zenith says the bent flange is on the bottom. If I could get a confirmation whether it’s the top or bottom that would be greatly appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Perry

 

From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MacDonald Doug

Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 5:45 AM

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Center of Radius Elevator

 

Perry, just for clarification, which model are we talking about?



 



Doug M



CH-701 from scratch



NW Ontario, Canada



 



Do Not Archive



 



From: Perry Delano <pdelano(at)telus.net>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2012 5:17:21 PM

Subject: Center of Radius Elevator

Hi all,



 



Would like to confirm before drilling the skin for the elevator what is meant by center of radius for the skin and nose rib. I have measured from the bent flange 450 mm and then from the unbent flange 465 mm which coincided with the mark for the 450 mm measurement. I am assuming what is meant by the center of radius is the mark 8  mm above the centerline of the rear rib projected to through the tip rib but I would like to be sure.



 



Help in clarifying this and some way to do a sanity check would be appreciated.



 



 



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  [quote][b]

klondike(at)megalink.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:09 am Post subject: Center of Radius Elevator

Perry-- you should consider doing away with the bend (on the trailing edge 

of the elevator)---- this was recommended by CH a long time ago--- but I 

guess it never made it into the  701 plans.-------- Do it the way it is done 

on the Ch-750.



The bend in the trailing edge of the elevator on the 701 leads to severe 

elevator trim problems.



Fritz



---

JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:50 am Post subject: Center of Radius Elevator

The center of radius is shown on the drawings of the elevator. 

  

 Regards,  John



CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300



Cell: 719-494-4567

Home:  303-648-3261   

  In a message dated 1/8/2012 6:49:51 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,  dougsnash(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		        Perry, just for clarification, which model are we talking    about?

    

   Doug M

   CH-701 from scratch

   NW Ontario, Canada

    

   Do Not Archive

   



         

From: Perry Delano    <pdelano(at)telus.net>

To:    zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2012 5:17:21    PM

Subject:    Center of Radius Elevator



                Hi all,

    

   Would like to confirm before drilling the    skin for the elevator what is meant by center of radius for the skin and nose    rib. I have measured from the bent flange 450 mm and then from the unbent    flange 465 mm which coincided with the mark for the 450 mm measurement. I am    assuming what is meant by the center of radius is the mark 8  mm above    the centerline of the rear rib projected to through the tip rib but I would    like to be sure.

    

   Help in clarifying this and some way to do a    sanity check would be appreciated.

    

    



 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-http://www.matronics.com/contribution" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">h







ist href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	




 [quote][b]

cdnch701builder

Joined: 21 Aug 2010
Posts: 21
Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:29 am Post subject: Center of Radius Elevator

Hey Perry...



Look at the enclosed PDF for the answer!   This from the Zenair newsletter from 1999... where 

CH offered a solution to the elevator trim problems as well as with the flaperons.   The 

problem is the with the riveted aft trailing edge of the control surface.  The original 

elevator drawing(since day 1) was designed with the aft TE bent up... this was done for the for 

the older 2 stroke engines.  When they went to the heavier 912 engines this is where the 

problem started... builders were have problems running out of elevator and control.   So CH 

issued this notice in the newsletter... which was all nice and dandy, BUT did not make the 

change in the drawings... hence the problem still exists.



I sent Jon Croke a notice that this should be re-issued in the newsletter last winter... BUT he 

did not.  If you phone Zenair they will tell you what to do to correct the problem... which is 

to bend the flange down(instead of up) where upper skin is level at the TE!   



--

R.D.(Ron)  Leclerc

Winnipeg, MB Canada

49-56-27N  097-06-44W  Elev 729'

Plans Builder CH701 STOL

VW  Type 4 Power,  Redrive

http://www.ronleclerc.net

http://www.flyingonfloats.com

cdnch701(at)mts.net,

08/01/2012

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:--)> 

:--)>

:--)> Perry-- you should consider doing away with the bend (on the trailing edge of the

:--)> elevator)---- this was recommended by CH a long time ago--- but I guess it never

:--)> made it into the  701 plans.-------- Do it the way it is done on the Ch-750.

:--)>

:--)> The bend in the trailing edge of the elevator on the 701 leads to severe elevator

:--)> trim problems.

:--)>

:--)> Fritz

:--)>

:--)>

:--)> ---

701-CH-Elevator-Mods.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

701-CH-Elevator-Mods.pdf

Filesize:

2.09 MB

Downloaded:

485 Time(s)

_________________
cdnch701builder

pdelano(at)telus.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:00 am Post subject: Center of Radius Elevator

Hi Ron, Fritz, Doug



Thanks all, for your speedy replys. This is likely why the change in the

text of the most recent photo assembly manual which puts the bend on the

bottom. I'm building from component parts so the skin came with the bend.

Since I make enough errors without a a conflict in the instructions, I'll

confirm what I need to do with Zenair before forging ahead. 



Regards,



Perry

cdnch701builder

Joined: 21 Aug 2010
Posts: 21
Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:15 am Post subject: Center of Radius Elevator

G'Day Perry...



That change in the photo assembly was in Sept, 2009... still lots of time for them to update 

the drawings, I guess the 750 was more important!

Ron



:--)> 

:--)>

:--)> Hi Ron, Fritz, Doug

:--)>

:--)> Thanks all, for your speedy replys. This is likely why the change in the text of

:--)> the most recent photo assembly manual which puts the bend on the bottom. I'm

:--)> building from component parts so the skin came with the bend. Since I make enough

:--)> errors without a a conflict in the instructions, I'll confirm what I need to do

:--)> with Zenair before forging ahead.

:--)>

:--)> Regards,

:--)>

:--)> Perry

:--)>

:--)>

:--)> Zenith701801-List Email Forum -

:--)> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

:--)> http://www.matronics.com/contribution

_________________
cdnch701builder

dougsnash

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:21 am Post subject: Center of Radius Elevator

Perry, I don't remember the exact issues with elevator radius part of the 701 build but I do recall I messed it up the first time and had to build another elevator.  Zenith gives a lengthy and somewhat confusing description of what you have to do to locate the centre of the radius in the build manual, I recall something like three pages or so dedicated to it.  Follow these instructions exactly and it should work.

  

 I know, not too much help.

  

 Like others have said, the 18mm bend at the trailing edge does not need to be there.  Orriginally it was bent up to prvide nose down trim.  Almost everybody who puts the bend in as per the plans eventually bends it back to neutral.  The 701 runs out of trim with full flaps with a neutral elevator trailing edge and the little duck tail bend just agravates the situation.

  

 If you are still confused about the radius issue, drop me a line and I can run out the garage and grab my plans and assembly book and see if I can provide any further help.  I built my elevator about five years ago so the details are a little foggy now.  

  

 By the way, the 750's elevator is much nicer and I am contemplating building one that will fit my 701 h-stab.  I seem to recall somebody on this list was building a scaled down 750 tail to fit his 701 scratch project.

  

  Doug M



  CH-701 from scratch



  NW Ontario, Canada



   



  Do Not Archive



 

 

   

From: Perry Delano <pdelano(at)telus.net>

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2012 8:50:40 AM

Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Center of Radius Elevator



      Hi Doug,

  

 It is a 701. Further to my query, although the plans seem to make it pretty clear that the 18mm bent flange on the elevator skin is on the top, which coincides with the hard copy of the photo assembly guide (Rev. 1.1) I got with the plans, The DVD photo assembly guide Rev. 1.2  I bought recently from Zenith says the bent flange is on the bottom. If I could get a confirmation whether itâ€™s the top or bottom that would be greatly appreciated.

  

 Regards,

  

 Perry

  

  

 [quote][b]

stepinwolf

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 133
Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:47 pm Post subject: Center of Radius Elevator

Doug,

  

 I was the one who built the 701 rudder to the  original size on the plans, however I did so using the exact same  construction methods and technique, as is found on the 750 elevator. I have  to admit it turned out a lot better then an original 701 elevator, and also  much easier to assemble.  Other then that, the only mod I incorporated in the construction, was to install the  hinge pins ( 7H3-2 ) on the interior of the outer rib, rather then on the  outside of the end rib. Personally, I felt they would be more secure on  the inside, then where originally called for. 

  

 I did take quite a few photos, so anyone  interested in receiving an assortment, please e-me off the List at the  following personal e-mail address.

  

 robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca (robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca)

  

 Fly safe

  

 Bob  the 701 & 750 Scratch

 Three Rivers , Quebec, Canada

  

  

 ---

_________________
Long wing + vga's, = lo & slo

pdelano(at)telus.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:02 pm Post subject: Center of Radius Elevator

John,

 

Thanks. Your comment helped to confirm where I needed to look. Enjoyed a trip to your state this past week. The weather was beautiful in Denver and Colorado Springs on Thursday.

 

Regards,

 

Perry

North Vancouver, BC

 

Do Not Archive 	  Quote: 	
		   	


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