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tedwaltman
Joined: 09 Apr 2010
Posts: 15
Location: Denver, CO
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 Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: Practical aspects of Exhibition category |
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Re "Experimental, Exhibition," I know that Operating Limitations only list the home airport and sometimes an alternate airport "...for maintenance." What's practical though in terms of flying with your buddies to a nearby airport for the $100 breakfast or to a friend's airport for a visit? Yes, such is not a "...exhibition, fly-in, airshow, ..." but has anyone EVER been "busted" for landing at other than their home airport?
Has anyone ever been hassled for stopping for fuel somewhere within their proficiency area (or at other than their home airport) when not in route to an event listed in their program letter?
Heck, has anyone ever even had to show their program letter to authorities (as part of a ramp check, for example)?
Thank you!
Ted
[quote][b]
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:10 pm Post subject: Practical aspects of Exhibition category |
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Nope
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 10, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)gmail.com (tedwaltman(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]
Re "Experimental, Exhibition," I know that Operating Limitations only list the home airport and sometimes an alternate airport "...for maintenance." What's practical though in terms of flying with your buddies to a nearby airport for the $100 breakfast or to a friend's airport for a visit? Yes, such is not a "...exhibition, fly-in, airshow, ..." but has anyone EVER been "busted" for landing at other than their home airport?
Has anyone ever been hassled for stopping for fuel somewhere within their proficiency area (or at other than their home airport) when not in route to an event listed in their program letter?
Heck, has anyone ever even had to show their program letter to authorities (as part of a ramp check, for example)?
Thank you!
Ted
[b]
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hess737(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: Practical aspects of Exhibition category |
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TedUnder the old 8130.2F only turbine powered acft or those that didn't fit in the first three groups were restricted to take and land at the same airport. You can go to other airports for proficiency but need to include in your program letter anywhere else you go to exibit, display, train or perform mx. Also, both gaining and leaving FSDO must be notified ahead of time for flights to a mx facility. I haven't read everything in the new 8130.2G but basically the proficiency range restrictions are removed. The only acft with severe restrictions are those that are not maintained according to any approved mx program, or those that require ejection or bailout in case of a single system failure. Otherwise you can go where you want. Yes, many of us have had our paperwork ramp checked. You can't be busted for going elsewhere unless its an "event" that should have been listed in your program letter. A simple fax to your FSDO is sufficient. Jets must give 48 hrs notice. I hope this helps. Feel free to email me direct with any other questions. Rich HessHess737(at)aol.comSent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
From: "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)gmail.com>
Sender: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 18:36:19 -0700
To: <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
ReplyTo: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Practical aspects of Exhibition category
Re = "Experimental, Exhibition," I know that Operating Limitations = only list the home airport and sometimes an alternate airport = "...for maintenance." What's practical though in terms = of flying with your buddies to a nearby airport for the $100 breakfast = or to a friend's airport for a visit? Yes, such is not a = "...exhibition, fly-in, airshow, ..." but has anyone EVER been = "busted" for landing at other than their home = airport?
Has anyone ever been hassled for stopping for fuel = somewhere within their proficiency area (or at other than their home = airport) when not in route to an event listed in their program = letter?
Heck, has anyone ever even had to show their program = letter to authorities (as part of a ramp check, for = example)?
Thank you!
Ted
[quote][b]
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czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: Practical aspects of Exhibition category |
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Never
Bill
On Jan 10, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)gmail.com (tedwaltman(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Re "Experimental, Exhibition," I know that Operating Limitations only list the home airport and sometimes an alternate airport "...for maintenance." What's practical though in terms of flying with your buddies to a nearby airport for the $100 breakfast or to a friend's airport for a visit? Yes, such is not a "...exhibition, fly-in, airshow, ..." but has anyone EVER been "busted" for landing at other than their home airport?
Has anyone ever been hassled for stopping for fuel somewhere within their proficiency area (or at other than their home airport) when not in route to an event listed in their program letter?
Heck, has anyone ever even had to show their program letter to authorities (as part of a ramp check, for example)?
Thank you!
Ted
| Quote: |
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//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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cs.com
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matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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GeorgeCoy
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:12 pm Post subject: Practical aspects of Exhibition category |
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Yes
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 10, 2012, at 9:07 PM, "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com (viperdoc(at)mindspring.com)> wrote:
[quote]Nope
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 10, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Ted Waltman" <[url=mailto:tedwaltman(at)gmail.com]tedwaltman(at)gmail.com (tedwaltman(at)gmail.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: |
Re "Experimental, Exhibition," I know that Operating Limitations only list the home airport and sometimes an alternate airport "...for maintenance." What's practical though in terms of flying with your buddies to a nearby airport for the $100 breakfast or to a friend's airport for a visit? Yes, such is not a "...exhibition, fly-in, airshow, ..." but has anyone EVER been "busted" for landing at other than their home airport?
Has anyone ever been hassled for stopping for fuel somewhere within their proficiency area (or at other than their home airport) when not in route to an event listed in their program letter?
Heck, has anyone ever even had to show their program letter to authorities (as part of a ramp check, for example)?
Thank you!
Ted
===================================
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
===================================
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
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[b]
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: Practical aspects of Exhibition category |
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Yep! At an air show we were attending. (Waivered airspace). The FAA
didn't ask whether we were participating in the show, such as fly-bys or
formation flights either. We could have been just static display. We
were participating in formation flights. As soon as I parked the
airplane on the ramp and before I had time to exit the cockpit, an FAA
inspector and 2 others from the FAA (badges were displayed), were at the
airplane asking for the Airworthiness Certificate, Registration, W&B,
O/L's, Current Program Letter showing this event, Pilot's certificate
and current medical and FAST card. I had my Program Letter, BUT not
the update showing the event. I was told to send it to them the on
Monday, which I did. I thought (at that time the 300 NM Proficiency
Area was still in effect), if the airshow was within my 300 NM
proficiency area I didn't have to have an update to the Program Letter.
I was mistaken. I did have to have an update. In accordance with the
operating limitations, a copy of the current program letter AND any
updates are to be carried in the airplane at all times along with the
Operating Limitations.
One of my friends was not so lucky. He did not have all of his
paperwork and they wouldn't let him fly in the airshow fly-by's. In
fact, they grounded the airplane right there and did not let the
airplane leave the ramp until all the proper paperwork was presented.
The guy had to rent a car, drive home, pick up the missing aircraft
paperwork, drive back and show the paperwork to the FAA inspector before
they would let the airplane leave the ramp.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
On 1/10/2012 8:31 PM, Bill Geipel wrote:
| Quote: | Never
Bill
On Jan 10, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)gmail.com
<mailto:tedwaltman(at)gmail.com>> wrote:
> Re "Experimental, Exhibition," I know that Operating Limitations only
> list the home airport and sometimes an alternate airport "...for
> maintenance." What's practical though in terms of flying with your
> buddies to a nearby airport for the $100 breakfast or to a friend's
> airport for a visit? Yes, such is not a "...exhibition, fly-in,
> airshow, ..." but has anyone EVER been "busted" for landing at other
> than their home airport?
>
> Has anyone ever been hassled for stopping for fuel somewhere within
> their proficiency area (or at other than their home airport) when not
> in route to an event listed in their program letter?
>
> Heck, has anyone ever even had to show their program letter to
> authorities (as part of a ramp check, for example)?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Ted
>
> *
>
> ===================================
> //www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ===================================
> cs.com
> ===================================
> matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
> *
*
*
|
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javiercarrascob
Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 62
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: Practical aspects of Exhibition category |
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Yes,
I got ramp checked in my first airshow, just as I arrived; the FAA inspector liked my plane a lot and had a lot of flattering comments, but he meant business, he checked all of my paper work and asked me about my routine.
JC
--- On Tue, 1/10/12, Ted Waltman <tedwaltman(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Ted Waltman <tedwaltman(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Practical aspects of Exhibition category
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2012, 8:36 PM
Re "Experimental, Exhibition," I know that Operating Limitations only list the home airport and sometimes an alternate airport "...for maintenance." What's practical though in terms of flying with your buddies to a nearby airport for the $100 breakfast or to a friend's airport for a visit? Yes, such is not a "...exhibition, fly-in, airshow, ..." but has anyone EVER been "busted" for landing at other than their home airport?
Has anyone ever been hassled for stopping for fuel somewhere within their proficiency area (or at other than their home airport) when not in route to an event listed in their program letter?
Heck, has anyone ever even had to show their program letter to authorities (as part of a ramp check, for example)?
Thank you!
Ted
| Quote: |
et=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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jonboede(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:25 am Post subject: Practical aspects of Exhibition category |
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The nutty thing on the Annual Program Letter is that it can be amended at any time... and the FAA doesn't have to APPROVE or even ACKNOWLEDGE RECEIPT of the amendment. You could, in theory, amend your annual program letter from your iPhone whilst you were on Short Final.
I think the FAA finally eliminated the proficiency areas because they were asked to demonstrate how said areas were contributing to the safety of the public -- a task which was proving problematic.
| Quote: | Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 08:37:06 -0600
From: dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Practical aspects of Exhibition category
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
Yep! At an air show we were attending. (Waivered airspace). The FAA
didn't ask whether we were participating in the show, such as fly-bys or
formation flights either. We could have been just static display. We
were participating in formation flights. As soon as I parked the
airplane on the ramp and before I had time to exit the cockpit, an FAA
inspector and 2 others from the FAA (badges were displayed), were at the
airplane asking for the Airworthiness Certificate, Registration, W&B,
O/L's, Current Program Letter showing this event, Pilot's certificate
and current medical and FAST card. I had my Program Letter, BUT not
the update showing the event. I was told to send it to them the on
Monday, which I did. I thought (at that time the 300 NM Proficiency
Area was still in effect), if the airshow was within my 300 NM
proficiency area I didn't have to have an update to the Program Letter.
I was mistaken. I did have to have an update. In accordance with the
operating limitations, a copy of the current program letter AND any
updates are to be carried in the airplane at all times along with the
Operating Limitations.
One of my friends was not so lucky. He did not have all of his
paperwork and they wouldn't let him fly in the airshow fly-by's. In
fact, they grounded the airplane right there and did not let the
airplane leave the ramp until all the proper paperwork was presented.
The guy had to rent a car, drive home, pick up the missing aircraft
paperwork, drive back and show the paperwork to the FAA inspector before
they would let the airplane leave the ramp.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: Yakguy1
www.yak-52.com
On 1/10/2012 8:31 PM, Bill Geipel wrote:
> Never
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> On Jan 10, 2012, at 7:36 PM, "Ted Waltman" <tedwaltman(at)gmail.com
> <mailto:tedwaltman(at)gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Re "Experimental, Exhibition," I know that Operating Limitations only
>> list the home airport and sometimes an alternate airport "...for
>> maintenance." What's practical though in terms of flying with your
>> buddies to a nearby airport for the $100 breakfast or to a friend's
>> airport for a visit? Yes, such is not a "...exhibition, fly-in,
>> airshow, ..." but has anyone EVER been "busted" for landing at other
>> than their home airport?
>>
>> Has anyone ever been hassled for stopping for fuel somewhere within
>> their proficiency area (or at other than their home airport) when not
>> in route to an event listed in their program letter?
>>
>> Heck, has anyone ever even had to show their program letter to
>> authorities (as part of a ramp check, for example)?
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Ted
>>
>> *
>>
>> ===================================
>> //www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> ==========
>> cs.com
>> ==========
>> matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>> *
> *
>
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[quote][b]
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bwade154(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:26 am Post subject: Practical aspects of Exhibition category |
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Yup Reading PA Airshow the inspector found the airplane was not registered (paper work held up in Oklahoma) and grounded me, he was very cordial and allowed me to fly the airplane home with a ferry permit then the fun began (dealing with the FAA) had to hand it over to my wife. Any airshow that you are going to fly in will want all the paperwork. Had a ramp inspection in NJ on my way to Georgetown MD for Formation school. Also had a run-in with the FAA over low flight and acro but they didn't want to see my papers that time, just wanted my licenses, FAA ain't they great!
Bill Wade
From: Ted Waltman <tedwaltman(at)gmail.com>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:36 PM
Subject: Practical aspects of Exhibition category
Re "Experimental, Exhibition," I know that Operating Limitations only list the home airport and sometimes an alternate airport "...for maintenance." What's practical though in terms of flying with your buddies to a nearby airport for the $100 breakfast or to a friend's airport for a visit? Yes, such is not a "...exhibition, fly-in, airshow, ..." but has anyone EVER been "busted" for landing at other than their home airport?
Has anyone ever been hassled for stopping for fuel somewhere within their proficiency area (or at other than their home airport) when not in route to an event listed in their program letter?
Heck, has anyone ever even had to show their program letter to authorities (as part of a ramp check, for example)?
Thank you!
Ted
[quote]
=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
[b]
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:58 am Post subject: Practical aspects of Exhibition category |
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YES! More than once.
--
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keithmckinley
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:21 am Post subject: Re: Practical aspects of Exhibition category |
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Yes,
Almost every air show.
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