Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Inexpensive Runway lighting

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Inexpensive Runway lighting
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

checkn6

Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 14

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:11 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

This question is slightly off topic but is aircraft and electro related, albeit somewhat loosely. Years ago I read an article in an aviation magazine about how a small group put in runway lights using industrial porch light fittings from a home store and compact fluorescent lights, they were simple to install and had lower use and maintenance cost. My question is does anyone know if this has been done with the latest LEDs?



I am based at an airport that is currently unlit and a small group of us are exploring this option and we donâ€™t want to re-invent the wheel so to speak. The fittings and mechanical is easy enough but was wondering about the types of LED/drivers, and power transmission. Runway is 2200 ft. Although the CFL option is viable I canâ€™t help but wonder if the power use and life expectancy of the LED wouldnâ€™t make them a better candidate for something like this.



Iâ€™ll listen to any ideas/advice on this and if anyone is interested in working with us email me off list. Forming the light configuration with proto boards is easy enough but curious about wiring for the long runs down the runway. For example, would it be better to run standard voltage and have a driver in each fitting, or have a driver in a central location that sends the required voltage to each light fitting. I would guess that it would be easier to send higher voltage down the length and set up each light with its own driver. Then again there is the cost to calculate. Iâ€™m Just getting started on this idea so any advice would be welcome.



Thanks,



Chris

etienne.phillips(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:40 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

Hi Chris



Have you considered retro-reflective lighting? Seems to be the cheapest and easiest maintenance-free option, as far as I've seen. No experience with it though (day/vfr pilot only), but I do see that Virgin uses is when they land in Nigeria!

 

I've seen old vehicle number-plates folded in half in an inverted V shape and secured to the ground too...



Thanks

Etienne



  [quote][b]

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:54 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

In a situation like yours with a small unlit strip the easiest way is to use individuel solar lights at each location.... No wires to run and most of the new generation light fixtures are darn cheap to buy and work good.... 

do not archive



Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



--------

n801bh(at)NetZero.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:08 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

These are darn bright and probably available at a lower cost in volume. They are alse shaped to shine light up just like regular runway side lighting. 

http://www.solarlightstore.com/solar-landscape-lights/path-lights/newtonsolaraccentlight.cfm 

If you really want to go the inexpensive route take some pie tins and staple or screw to wooden stakes and line the side of the runway with them. You  would be amazed it how good they reflect the light off of your landing light of the aircraft... You can do an entire runway for 20 bucks too.   Ps. It might look a bit hoky but very functional. 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



--------

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:41 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

Just another data point.



I have a variety of solar lights along the "taxiway" from my parking 

area to my house. The original poster didn't say where they lived, but I 

have found that when it's cold the useful illumination time for most of 

the solar lights is < 3hrs.  Also, if it is cloudy for more than 1/2 the 

day the illumination time is significantly reduced, even in the summer. 

  I think a cost effective solar powered system could be built, but my 

experience with off the shelf items has been unsatisfactory.



Obviously, testing the unit you are considering using is a must.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,

and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine



On 01/13/2012 08:49 AM, n801bh(at)netzero.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 In a situation like yours with a small unlit strip the easiest way is to

 use individuel solar lights at each location.... No wires to run and

 most of the new generation light fixtures are darn cheap to buy and work

 good....


	


snipped DNA



[quote] Ben Haas

 N801BH

 www.haaspowerair.com



 --------

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:02 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

At 08:37 AM 1/13/2012, you wrote:

Hi Chris



Have you considered retro-reflective lighting? Seems to be the 

cheapest and easiest maintenance-free option, as far as I've seen. No 

experience with it though (day/vfr pilot only), but I do see that 

Virgin uses is when they land in Nigeria!



I've seen old vehicle number-plates folded in half in an inverted V 

shape and secured to the ground too..



Absolutely the lowest cost-of-ownership solution.

The airport Dr. Dee and I used to own had "approved"

runway lights . . . or at least approved when they were

installed 20 years ago. They used a 10w sewing machine

bulb and had a domed cylinder cover/lens  which may have

be optimized for concentrating light in the 'right' directions

but I suspect not.



Given the age of the installation, they were a real maintenance

headache. One thing I discovered was that fixtures with missing

globes were less likely to corrode . . . fresh rain water keeps

them free of dust accumulation and taking the globe off allowed

the guts of the fixture to dry out quickly. Leaving the globe on

trapped moisture inside to rot away at the metal parts.



Since we were a privately owned airport, the only risk for having

'non approved' fixtures was to risk loosing the notation in the AFM for

"low intensity lighting".



One night while driving down a section of highway under repair,

the striping was temporarily replaced with low profile reflectors

robust enough to withstand the effects of inattentive driving. Their

performance when illuminated with headlights was pretty amazing.

It was easy to imagine how these critters would look down the

edges of a runway while in a flare maneuver.



Here's one example of many:



http://tinyurl.com/7seqaey



http://tinyurl.com/85b2daj



If I were building a runway out on the farm, I would certainly

consider this technology as an alternative to powered lighting

systems.



Further, efficient reflectors of some larger size and shape

could be used to create a poor-boy's VASI system. They can be

placed at the bottom of a deep box with geometry that controls

the angle of illumination/reflection of the colors.



Combined with your own tested non-precision approach for

setting up a track and speed past a gps fix off the approach

end of the runway would get you set up to maximize performance

of the reflectors. No bulbs to wear out, low cost replacement

of damaged components, no electric bill, exceedingly weather

resistant.

   Bob . . .

ainut(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:42 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

Be sure you set your lights up and protect them during grass cutting.  

We all make mistakes and on an area that size, it is easy to slip up and 

run one over. <sigh>



David M.



n801bh(at)netzero.com wrote:

[quote]

 These are darn bright and probably available at a lower cost in 

 volume. They are alse shaped to shine light up just like regular 

 runway side lighting.



 http://www.solarlightstore.com/solar-landscape-lights/path-lights/newtonsolaraccentlight.cfm



 If you really want to go the inexpensive route take some pie tins and 

 staple or screw to wooden stakes and line the side of the runway with 

 them. You  would be amazed it how good they reflect the light off of 

 your landing light of the aircraft... You can do an entire runway for 

 20 bucks too.   Ps. It might look a bit hoky but very functional.



 do not archive

 Ben Haas

 N801BH

 www.haaspowerair.com



 --------

ainut(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

But reflective-only lights are zero help when you're trying to just FIND 

the airport at night!  That is no fun at all.



David M.



Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



 At 08:37 AM 1/13/2012, you wrote:

 Hi Chris



 Have you considered retro-reflective lighting? Seems to be the 

 cheapest and easiest maintenance-free option, as far as I've seen. No 

 experience with it though (day/vfr pilot only), but I do see that 

 Virgin uses is when they land in Nigeria!

 <<<snip>>>


	




-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:25 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

Combined with your own tested non-precision approach for

setting up a track and speed past a gps fix off the approach

end of the runway would get you set up to maximize performance

of the reflectors. No bulbs to wear out, low cost replacement

of damaged components, no electric bill, exceedingly weather

resistant.

   Bob . . .



		Just remember that in the northern climate, snow, ice, and

frost can compromise these reflective devices more than an incandescent

bulb, which generates some heat to melt the frozen surface.  With any runway

lighting system design, it is imperative that all probable weather

conditions be taken into account.



	Roger

winmail.dat

Description:

Download

Filename:

winmail.dat

Filesize:

3.68 KB

Downloaded:

511 Time(s)

ainut(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:42 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

And if GPS is out or a 4G cell tower is nearby???



David M.



ROGER & JEAN CURTIS wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Combined with your own tested non-precision approach for

 setting up a track and speed past a gps fix off the approach

 end of the runway would get you set up to maximize performance

 of the reflectors. No bulbs to wear out, low cost replacement

 of damaged components, no electric bill, exceedingly weather

 resistant.

     Bob . . .



 		Just remember that in the northern climate, snow, ice, and

 frost can compromise these reflective devices more than an incandescent

 bulb, which generates some heat to melt the frozen surface.  With any runway

 lighting system design, it is imperative that all probable weather

 conditions be taken into account.



 	Roger

 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com


	




-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:36 pm Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

At 11:42 AM 1/13/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



But reflective-only lights are zero help when you're trying to just 

FIND the airport at night!  That is no fun at all.


	


    There's where your GPS comes in. While I was

    still flying a lot off of 1K1, I crafted a GPS

    aided approach that always put me 1/2 mile off

    the approach end of the runway on an aligned

    heading. Had the runway lights been out or non-

    existent, reflectors would have sufficed to

    complete the approach and landing.

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

At 01:38 PM 1/13/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



And if GPS is out or a 4G cell tower is nearby???


	


   Not sure what 4G has to do with it . . . are these

   known GPS antagonists? I've never experienced a GPS

   outage but it's been a few years. If your needing

   really robust lighting on the subject field, perhaps

   reflectors are not for you. I'm my experience here in

   flyover country, they would have sufficed for every

   night-time arrival I've ever made to my home field.



   One could craft some LED, solar powered REIL fixtures

   too. This would get you oriented with the most rudimentary

   of navigation devices. It doesn't take much light to be

   seen from 5 miles away. Hence, not much energy needs to

   be stored to keep a few LEDs flashing.

   Bob . . .

enginerdy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:52 pm Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

I think he's talking about the pending LightSquared issues -- they purchased bandwidth that was reserved for satellite communication some time ago, but the plans for using that spectrum was scrapped as impractical (by LightSquared), so then they began pursuing using the band as land-based 4G network spectrum.

That's all well and good, except that the band is adjacent to the GPS band, and its power due to proximity tends to overwhelm the input circuitry of GPS receivers, because they were never designed to be selective enough to filter out such a thing.

My personal feeling is that this will never actually see the light of day, regardless of all the lobbying LS can muster.

As a suggestion to your failure analysis, I think it would be a bad idea to rely on home-grown runway lighting in a critical way -- which means diverting to a lighted muni airport would always need to be an option anyway.

Thoughts?

On Jan 16, 2012, at 12:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 01:38 PM 1/13/2012, you wrote:

> 

> 

> And if GPS is out or a 4G cell tower is nearby???

  Not sure what 4G has to do with it . . . are these

  known GPS antagonists? I've never experienced a GPS

  outage but it's been a few years. If your needing

  really robust lighting on the subject field, perhaps

  reflectors are not for you. I'm my experience here in

  flyover country, they would have sufficed for every

  night-time arrival I've ever made to my home field.

  One could craft some LED, solar powered REIL fixtures

  too. This would get you oriented with the most rudimentary

  of navigation devices. It doesn't take much light to be

  seen from 5 miles away. Hence, not much energy needs to

  be stored to keep a few LEDs flashing.

  Bob . . .

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:13 pm Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

Well, I guess the 4G thing depends on who gets elected next November.... 

    JUST KIDDING!!!  All I know about 4G is what I've read in the 

usual aviation mags.  I won't try to predict what government regulators 

will do.

As far as the runway lights, I guess it depends on how much you trust 

your runway lights.  If you're willing to trust your work on your OBAM 

aircraft, I wouldn't think there would be a problem trusting your OBAM 

runway lights.

do not archive

Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,

and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine

On 01/16/2012 12:49 AM, Daniel Hooper wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 I think he's talking about the pending LightSquared issues -- they purchased bandwidth that was reserved for satellite communication some time ago, but the plans for using that spectrum was scrapped as impractical (by LightSquared), so then they began pursuing using the band as land-based 4G network spectrum.

 That's all well and good, except that the band is adjacent to the GPS band, and its power due to proximity tends to overwhelm the input circuitry of GPS receivers, because they were never designed to be selective enough to filter out such a thing.

 My personal feeling is that this will never actually see the light of day, regardless of all the lobbying LS can muster.

 As a suggestion to your failure analysis, I think it would be a bad idea to rely on home-grown runway lighting in a critical way -- which means diverting to a lighted muni airport would always need to be an option anyway.

 Thoughts?

 On Jan 16, 2012, at 12:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

> 

>

> At 01:38 PM 1/13/2012, you wrote:

>> 

>>

>> And if GPS is out or a 4G cell tower is nearby???

>

>   Not sure what 4G has to do with it . . . are these

>   known GPS antagonists? I've never experienced a GPS

>   outage but it's been a few years. If your needing

>   really robust lighting on the subject field, perhaps

>   reflectors are not for you. I'm my experience here in

>   flyover country, they would have sufficed for every

>   night-time arrival I've ever made to my home field.

>

>   One could craft some LED, solar powered REIL fixtures

>   too. This would get you oriented with the most rudimentary

>   of navigation devices. It doesn't take much light to be

>   seen from 5 miles away. Hence, not much energy needs to

>   be stored to keep a few LEDs flashing.

>   Bob . . .

>

>

n801bh(at)NetZero.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:51 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

I agree with Bob.......... 

I have done the exact same thing and created my own approach to my private airport, 2WY3... Crafting a GPS procedure is quite simple and will get me lined up with the precision of an ILS,,, maybe even better.  IMHO. 

do not archive.

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



--------

n801bh(at)NetZero.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

--------

ainut(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:20 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

yes, LightSquared.  Multiple tests prove that their 4G cell systems do 

in fact render GPS unusable.  One would think the FCC would stop them 

out of hand but LS gave the obamanation several million dollars so now 

he is also behind their financial success, which does not bode well for 

us GPS users.  Even the heavies (airliners) have trouble and they are 

supposed to be "interference hardened."  This is politics but it GREATLY 

interferes with my safety.

David M.

Daniel Hooper wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 I think he's talking about the pending LightSquared issues -- they purchased bandwidth that was reserved for satellite communication some time ago, but the plans for using that spectrum was scrapped as impractical (by LightSquared), so then they began pursuing using the band as land-based 4G network spectrum.

 That's all well and good, except that the band is adjacent to the GPS band, and its power due to proximity tends to overwhelm the input circuitry of GPS receivers, because they were never designed to be selective enough to filter out such a thing.

 My personal feeling is that this will never actually see the light of day, regardless of all the lobbying LS can muster.

 As a suggestion to your failure analysis, I think it would be a bad idea to rely on home-grown runway lighting in a critical way -- which means diverting to a lighted muni airport would always need to be an option anyway.

 Thoughts?

 On Jan 16, 2012, at 12:21 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

> 

>

> At 01:38 PM 1/13/2012, you wrote:

>> 

>>

>> And if GPS is out or a 4G cell tower is nearby???

>   Not sure what 4G has to do with it . . . are these

>   known GPS antagonists? I've never experienced a GPS

>   outage but it's been a few years. If your needing

>   really robust lighting on the subject field, perhaps

>   reflectors are not for you. I'm my experience here in

>   flyover country, they would have sufficed for every

>   night-time arrival I've ever made to my home field.

>

>   One could craft some LED, solar powered REIL fixtures

>   too. This would get you oriented with the most rudimentary

>   of navigation devices. It doesn't take much light to be

>   seen from 5 miles away. Hence, not much energy needs to

>   be stored to keep a few LEDs flashing.

>   Bob . . .

>

>

 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

ainut(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:21 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

I've experienced a GPS outage once, but fortunately I was only on a 

motorcycle at the time.

David

Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>

 At 01:38 PM 1/13/2012, you wrote:

> 

>

> And if GPS is out or a 4G cell tower is nearby???

   Not sure what 4G has to do with it . . . are these

   known GPS antagonists? I've never experienced a GPS

   outage but it's been a few years. If your needing

   really robust lighting on the subject field, perhaps

   reflectors are not for you. I'm my experience here in

   flyover country, they would have sufficed for every

   night-time arrival I've ever made to my home field.

   One could craft some LED, solar powered REIL fixtures

   too. This would get you oriented with the most rudimentary

   of navigation devices. It doesn't take much light to be

   seen from 5 miles away. Hence, not much energy needs to

   be stored to keep a few LEDs flashing.

   Bob . . .

 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

checkn6

Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 14

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:41 am Post subject: Re: Inexpensive Runway lighting

Gentlemen, thank you for all of your input and ideas. 



Our little group of intrepid night flyers is now leaning towards the solar lights with the addition of reflective tape on flexible poles. The field is seldom used and although someone in trouble may look down and see a few twinkly lights and find salvation it is not the intent. At one point we had considered getting the PCL switching system, and have it done up to the highest standards but for our little field is just seems too impractical so started looking for less expensive home grown options. 



We determined that we all know our way and could find it by landmarks (with a little help from our GPSâ€™) even at night due to the proximity to a busy highway, and an small but well lit business a mile from the end of the runway so the final consensus is that the lighting would primarily be for an early evening straggler that stayed out a little later than anticipated so LED solar would give ample service, and for departing earlier in the morning than the suns desire to get out of bed then reflectors would light the way while departing. 



Thanks again for the input and ideas.



Chris

icubob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:15 am Post subject: Inexpensive Runway lighting

fwiw, your idea sounds good. my wife enjoys all these solar lights available and has them around her gardens. i think some variety would work for you.

 bob noffs

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 7:41 AM, checkn6 <checkn6(at)yahoo.com (checkn6(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "checkn6" <checkn6(at)yahoo.com (checkn6(at)yahoo.com)>

  

 Gentlemen, thank you for all of your input and ideas.

 

 Our little group of intrepid night flyers is now leaning towards the solar lights with the addition of reflective tape on flexible poles. The field is seldom used and although someone in trouble may look down and see a few twinkly lights and find salvation it is not the intent. At one point we had considered getting the PCL switching system, and have it done up to the highest standards but for our little field is just seems too impractical so started looking for less expensive home grown options.

  

 We determined that we all know our way and could find it by landmarks (with a little help from our GPS’) even at night due to the proximity to a busy highway, and an small but well lit business a mile from the end of the runway so the final consensus is that the lighting would primarily be for an early evening straggler that stayed out a little later than anticipated so LED solar would give ample service, and for departing earlier in the morning than the suns desire to get out of bed then reflectors would light the way while departing.

  

 Thanks again for the input and ideas.

 

 Chris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363983#363983

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum