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jon.mclin(at)cox.net
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 Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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Wire bundles in my Cessna are in some places spiral wrapped in a white translucent tape. The tape is not the plastic spiral wrap that is commonly available for wire harnesses; nor is it regular electrical tape. The thickness and "stickiness" is somewhere in between - the tape sticks to itself enough that the wrap holds, but it can be readily unwrapped. It's roughly 1" wide. I estimate the thickness at somewhere between 5 and 10 mils.
What is this, and where can I purchase some?
Thanks,
Jon McLin
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halbenjamin(at)optonline.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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Jon,
Sounds like Silicone tape. (aka rescue tape) Aircraft Spruce carries it. Good luck!
Hal Benjamin - RV-4
Long Island, NY
Starting engine soon - Should be flying this year!
---
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jon.mclin(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:13 am Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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| Quote: | Sounds like Silicone tape. (aka rescue tape) Aircraft Spruce carries it. Good luck!
Thanks, but no, it's not silicone tape. That stuff fuses together permanently. This stuff is easily unwrapped.
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I found some earlier notes I made - the Cessna stuff is apparently 12 mils thick. Where it was used in the cabin it (installed perhaps 34 years ago) it remains flexible, and could probably be reused. Under the cowl it was pretty hard, and cracked when I unwrapped it.
Online I find "dry vinyl" tape for wire harnesses, which apparently sticks to itself but can be easily unwrapped. That's the desired behavior. The dry vinyl tape that I can find is only available in opaque black or yellow, and is much thinner (4 mils).
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:41 am Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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Sure doesn’t sound like it would pass legal inspection. Adhesive tapes are not supposed to be used at all. Not for connecting wires or binding them together in bundles. For that there is coraseal nylon ties and wax cord.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of halbenjamin(at)optonline.net
Sent: January 15, 2012 2:02 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape?
Jon,
Sounds like Silicone tape. (aka rescue tape) Aircraft Spruce carries it. Good luck!
Hal Benjamin - RV-4
Long Island, NY
Starting engine soon - Should be flying this year!
---
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
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icubob(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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i don't talk to many pilots that use the wax cord but i do and it is worth a look. as i understand it is still used in military planes. it has a tensile strength of 80 lbs compared to a wire tie at 18 lbs. a spool will last a lifetime and several wraps will secure about anything. its cross section is about the same as flat rib lacing.
bob noffs
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)> wrote:
[quote]
Sure doesn’t sound like it would pass legal inspection. Adhesive tapes are not supposed to be used at all. Not for connecting wires or binding them together in bundles. For that there is coraseal nylon ties and wax cord.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of halbenjamin(at)optonline.net (halbenjamin(at)optonline.net)
Sent: January 15, 2012 2:02 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape?
Jon,
Sounds like Silicone tape. (aka rescue tape) Aircraft Spruce carries it. Good luck!
Hal Benjamin - RV-4
Long Island, NY
Starting engine soon - Should be flying this year!
---
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MNellis
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Georgetown, TSX
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:08 pm Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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I use the wax cord as well. There is something nostalgic and relaxing
about lacing up a section of wiring. I use tie wraps, loosely
positioned to hold them in position until the loom is ready.
Mike
| Quote: | i don't talk to many pilots that use the wax cord but i do and it is
worth a look. as i understand it is still used in military planes. it
has a tensile strength of 80 lbs compared to a wire tie at 18 lbs. a
spool will last a lifetime and several wraps will secure about
anything. its cross section is about the same as flat rib lacing.
bob noffs
|
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Mike Nellis
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rparigoris
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 791
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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Hi Jon
Is it perhaps Teflon Tape?
See Aircraft Spruce and Ssearch Teflon Tape, it is adhesive backed. You can also have a look at www.mcmaster.com.
Ron Parigoris
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon McLin <jon.mclin(at)cox.net> > > >> Sounds like Silicone tape. (aka rescue tape) Aircraft Spruce carries it. >> Good luck! >> > Thanks, but no, it's not silicone tape. That stuff fuses together > permanently. This stuff is easily unwrapped. > > I found some earlier notes I made - the Cessna stuff is apparently 12 mils > thick. Where it was used in the cabin it (installed perhaps 34 years ago) > it remains flexible, and could probably be reused. Under the cowl it was > pretty hard, and cracked when I unwrapped it. > > Online I find "dry vinyl" tape for wire harnesses, which apparently sticks > to itself but can be easily unwrapped. That's the desired behavior. The > dry vinyl tape that I can find is only available in opaque black or > yellow, and is much thinner (4 mils). > > > > > [quote][b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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At 07:37 PM 1/14/2012, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Wire bundles in my Cessna are in some places spiral wrapped in a
white translucent tape. The tape is not the plastic spiral wrap
that is commonly available for wire harnesses; nor is it regular
electrical tape. The thickness and "stickiness" is somewhere in
between - the tape sticks to itself enough that the wrap holds, but
it can be readily unwrapped. It's roughly 1" wide. I estimate the
thickness at somewhere between 5 and 10 mils.
|
At Boeing in 1961 we called that stuff "Irvolite". I'm sure
this was a trade name. I've also heard it referred to as
"Sirco". Also a trade name. Given that we were using this
stuff on the B-52, it's a certainty that it has a generic
name further identified by a mil-spec.
The stuff came in both flat wrap (tape) and
sleeve (tubing) forms and the material of choice
for adding extra insulation and/or scuff protection.
The stuff was mildly self-bonding to itself but
we always secured the end of the wrap with a
string-tie.
It's not as chemically and thermally robust as the soft
silicone tape in common use today, at the same
time it's mechanical robustness is superior to
silicone. I've not seen a 'fresh' roll of it in
a very long time. I've not observed its use on
any airplane at Beech in many years. Its pedigree is
from the Polyurethane/Vinyl era . . . not something
we would see on a modern TC aircraft.
Bob . . .
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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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Velcro works great as a temporary wrap; just peel it open to add wire.
(Don't tell anyone, but it can work fine as a permanent wrap, too.)
Charlie
On 01/15/2012 03:03 PM, Mike Nellis wrote:
| Quote: |
I use the wax cord as well. There is something nostalgic and relaxing
about lacing up a section of wiring. I use tie wraps, loosely
positioned to hold them in position until the loom is ready.
Mike
> i don't talk to many pilots that use the wax cord but i do and it is
> worth a look. as i understand it is still used in military planes. it
> has a tensile strength of 80 lbs compared to a wire tie at 18 lbs. a
> spool will last a lifetime and several wraps will secure about
> anything. its cross section is about the same as flat rib lacing.
> bob noffs
|
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:46 pm Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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My preference is the wax cord but as with a lot of things it does take some practice to get to install it properly. It has other pluses over the nylon tie wraps You will never slice a hand open while rooting around in an engine bay that has coraseal and wax cord used. I am one of the ones who has received my fair share of slices on tie wraps.
One easy way to tell if it will pass inspection is to check and see if tape of any kind is listed in the Maintenance Manual.. If it’s not there and you use it without an STC you may find your plane grounded and according to Mr. Murphy it will only happen at the worst possible time. I’ve seen large aircraft grounded for a $0.11 item.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob noffs
Sent: January 15, 2012 4:38 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape?
i don't talk to many pilots that use the wax cord but i do and it is worth a look. as i understand it is still used in military planes. it has a tensile strength of 80 lbs compared to a wire tie at 18 lbs. a spool will last a lifetime and several wraps will secure about anything. its cross section is about the same as flat rib lacing.
bob noffs
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)> wrote:
Sure doesn’t sound like it would pass legal inspection. Adhesive tapes are not supposed to be used at all. Not for connecting wires or binding them together in bundles. For that there is coraseal nylon ties and wax cord.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of halbenjamin(at)optonline.net (halbenjamin(at)optonline.net)
Sent: January 15, 2012 2:02 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape?
Jon,
Sounds like Silicone tape. (aka rescue tape) Aircraft Spruce carries it. Good luck!
Hal Benjamin - RV-4
Long Island, NY
Starting engine soon - Should be flying this year!
---
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:47 pm Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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Another thing about the use of tape is it will hold heat in a bundle so if
it is used not only may it dry out and fall off but it will also change the
wire spec for current carried on any particular wire in a bundle.
Noel
--
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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At 09:39 PM 1/15/2012, you wrote:
| Quote: | My preference is the wax cord but as with a lot of things it does take some practice to get to install it properly. It has other pluses over the nylon tie wraps You will never slice a hand open while rooting around in an engine bay that has coraseal and wax cord used. I am one of the ones who has received my fair share of slices on tie wraps.
|
Here's a link to a tread on the topic a few years
ago:
http://tinyurl.com/7a89njo
The "waxed cord" commonly found in military and domestic
production aircraft is probably Mil-T-43435 as described
below in the Aircraft Spruce Catalog
[img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20120115231115.046192d8(at)aeroelectric.com.0[/img]
. . . and the Braden
[img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20120115231115.046192d8(at)aeroelectric.com.1[/img]
Bob . . .
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james(at)etravel.org
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:54 am Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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This sounds a lot like rib-lacing cord. Â Is that an acceptable substitute?Â
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/threads2.phpÂ
James
On 16 January 2012 05:22, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 09:39 PM 1/15/2012, you wrote:
| Quote: | My preference is the wax cord but as with a lot of things it does take some practice to get to install it properly. It has other pluses over the nylon tie wraps You will never slice a hand open while rooting around in an engine bay that has coraseal and wax cord used. I am one of the ones who has received my fair share of slices on tie wraps.
 |
Here's a link to a tread on the topic a few years
ago:
http://tinyurl.com/7a89njo
The "waxed cord" commonly found in military and domestic
production aircraft is probably Mil-T-43435 as described
below in the Aircraft Spruce Catalog
[img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20120115231115.046192d8(at)aeroelectric.com.0[/img]
Â
 . . . and the Braden
[img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20120115231115.046192d8(at)aeroelectric.com.1[/img]
 Bob . . .
|
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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Thanks Bob; I knew you would have the right link to a certified product.
Noel
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: January 16, 2012 1:52 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape?
At 09:39 PM 1/15/2012, you wrote:
My preference is the wax cord but as with a lot of things it does take some practice to get to install it properly. It has other pluses over the nylon tie wraps You will never slice a hand open while rooting around in an engine bay that has coraseal and wax cord used. I am one of the ones who has received my fair share of slices on tie wraps.
Here's a link to a tread on the topic a few years
ago:
http://tinyurl.com/7a89njo
The "waxed cord" commonly found in military and domestic
production aircraft is probably Mil-T-43435 as described
below in the Aircraft Spruce Catalog
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CCD492.F4AA7FB0[/img]
. . . and the Braden
[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CCD492.F4AA7FB0[/img]
Bob . . .
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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At 08:48 AM 1/16/2012, you wrote:
| Quote: | This sounds a lot like rib-lacing cord. Â Is that an acceptable substitute?Â
|
Not sure which direction the substitution is taking
place. Are you asking if you can use the recommended
rib lacing cord to tie wire bundles? The answer would
be certainly. Use the flat-lace described to tie
fabric to ribs? Don't know. I'd be inclined to
stick with the legacy, 'been there, done that' materials.
Bob . . .
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:29 am Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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At 06:38 PM 1/16/2012, you wrote:
Thanks Bob; I knew you would have the right link to a certified product.
Let's not be too quick to call it 'certified' . . . it's
certainly a material built to known quality and performance
standards and suited to the task on certified airplanes.
But no part or accessory gets holy-watered by the FAA with
any sort of certification, only complete airframes get
type certificates. Once ANY part or material shows up
on the bill of materials for a TC aircraft, it is
'qualified' for such service irrespective of its pedigree.
There are many products built to rigorous specifications
that may or may no be suited to task aboard an airplane.
So just because it's 'mil-spec' doesn't make it holy. In
this case, the flat lace cited has a long and successful
history in TC aircraft and elsewhere.
Bob . . .
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james(at)etravel.org
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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I was wondering if there was anything special about the electrical type that would preclude me from using the spare flat waxed rib cord I have -- it came on a reel with about 2 miles of cord, so there's quite a bit left over from when I did the covering!
Thanks for the advice.Â
James
On 17 January 2012 15:18, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
At 08:48 AM 1/16/2012, you wrote:
| Quote: | This sounds a lot like rib-lacing cord. Â Is that an acceptable substitute?Â
|
 Not sure which direction the substitution is taking
 place. Are you asking if you can use the recommended
 rib lacing cord to tie wire bundles? The answer would
 be certainly. Use the flat-lace described to tie
 fabric to ribs? Don't know. I'd be inclined to
 stick with the legacy, 'been there, done that' materials.
 Bob . . .
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[b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: Wire Bundle Wrapping Tape? |
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At 02:54 PM 1/17/2012, you wrote:
I was wondering if there was anything special about the electrical
type that would preclude me from using the spare flat waxed rib cord
I have -- it came on a reel with about 2 miles of cord, so there's
quite a bit left over from when I did the covering!
Thanks for the advice.
I think that's a safe substitution. In fact, does your
spool of flat lace have any numbers on it . . . like
Mil-T-$#(at)%?
It may well be that the stuff we tie wires with is
exactly the same as that used to stitch ribs. In any
case, wire ties are not highly stress nor subject to
the effects of exposure to the environment. Using
it to tie wires is not a high-risk decision.
Bob . . .
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