Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Warp Drive prop

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:52 am Post subject: Warp Drive prop

Ellery- Did anyone ever find out about the prop that came apart?  Last I remember, there was a discussion as to whether or not it was a stock factory Warp Drive.



                                              Bill Sullivan

                                              Windsor Locks,  Ct.

                                              FS 447, Warp Drive prop

 [quote][b]

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject: Warp Drive prop

Yes the NTSB report was finally finished up about 3 weeks ago it is a Warp drive Prop and I have been talking to a lawyer

   I am out an airplane and could have been out of life because of that Prop Who do they think they are using the public as 

   a test bed for there props why wasn't there ever a service bulletin out on there props to prevent this from happening again this is not 

   the first time this has happened to one of there props  from what the FAA has told me 

   

 

  

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: Warp Drive prop

May be old news? 



  http://www.ultralightnews.com/



  http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivefailure.htm



  



 Herb 



 

 At 05:25 PM 1/14/2012, you wrote:

 [quote]Yes the NTSB report was finally finished up about 3 weeks ago it is a Warp drive Prop and I have been talking to a lawyer

 I am out an airplane and could have been out of life because of that Prop Who do they think they are using the public as 

 a test bed for there props why wasn't there ever a service bulletin out on there props to prevent this from happening again this is not 

 the first time this has happened to one of there props  from what the FAA has told me 



 

  

 Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 



 --

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject: Warp Drive prop

ERA11LA150

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

rmurrill(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:31 pm Post subject: Warp Drive prop

The â€œFull Narrativeâ€ doesnâ€™t go into much detail, but the fact that all  three blades showed chordwise cracks as an apparent combination of fatigue and  static overload I would think would be a real concern.    The lab  report didnâ€™t say so, but one would assume that is the precursor for the delams  and eventual shedding of parts.  The report has one phrase about â€œbending  forward under airload.â€???   Some of the Warp hubs had the crack  problem a few years back, but I think most people consider the blades pretty  much bullet proof.   So seems to me you end up with two primary likely  scenarios.....you got three bum blades.....or, more likely, something in this  particular configuration caused higher inplane loads than normal and led to the  chordwise cracks.   In the certified world there would be a bunch of  expensive rotor dynamics manpower and computers calculating coupled modal  frequency placement followed by an order of magnitude more expensive strain  gaged flight test.

  

 One would hope that if there are other instances of â€œtransverseâ€ cracks in  the trailing edges of similar blades, then that information would be quickly  shared regarding types of aircraft and engine, time in service, etc. ..

  

 Bob

  

  

  

    From: Ellery Batchelder Jr (elleryweld(at)aol.com) 

 Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 8:47 PM

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Warp Drive prop



  ERA11LA150



  Ellery Batchelder  Jr.



 -----Original  Message-----

From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>

To:  kolb-list <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2012 10:42  pm

Subject: Re: Warp Drive prop



 Ellery, Do you have  the NTSB report #?   

 Rick Girard



 On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Ellery Batchelder Jr  <elleryweld(at)aol.com (elleryweld(at)aol.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Yes the NTSB report was finally finished up about 3 weeks ago it is a    Warp drive Prop and I have been talking to a lawyer

   I am out an airplane and could have been out of life because of that Prop    Who do they think they are using the public as 

   a test bed for there props why wasn't there ever a service bulletin out    on there props to prevent this from happening again this is not 

   the first time this has happened to one of there props  from what    the FAA has told me 

   



 

      Ellery Batchelder    Jr.



   -----Original    Message-----

From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net (williamtsullivan(at)att.net)>

To:    kolb list <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)>

Sent:    Sat, Jan 14, 2012 9:52 am

Subject: Warp Drive prop



                         Ellery- Did anyone ever find out about the prop          that came apart?  Last I remember, there was a discussion as to          whether or not it was a stock factory Warp          Drive.



                                                       Bill          Sullivan

                                                       Windsor Locks,          Ct.

                                                       FS 447, Warp Drive prop

 	  Quote: 	
		  



get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

p://forums.matronics.com

blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




 	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	




  

-- 

 Zulu Delta

 Mk IIIC

 Thanks, Homer GBYM

  

 It isn't  necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

  -  Groucho Marx

 



  



 	  Quote: 	
		  



get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

p://forums.matronics.com

blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:10 am Post subject: Warp Drive prop

The â€œFull Narrativeâ€ doesnâ€™t go into much detail

Bob

 

 

Kolbers:



Be interesting to know the history of Ellery's Warp Drive Prop.  Wasn't it one of the first generation Warps? or very early on in WD's history?



I have flown WD props since 1993 on my 582, 912UL, and 912ULS.  All have had the HP Hub.  That hub has been upgraded several times since I got my first one.



Direct drive engines had problems with WD props because of the lack of torsional vibration dampening, if I recall correctly.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:11 am Post subject: Warp Drive prop

ok...   are we talking the warp blades of  the early foam core,,,  or the new warp designes?

  

 boyd y

 mkiii 912 warp drive 68 inch

  

  

 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 The â€œFull Narrativeâ€ doesnâ€™t go into much detail, but the fact that all  three blades showed chordwise cracks as an apparent combination of fatigue and  static overload I would think would be a real concern.    The lab  report didnâ€™t say so, but one would assume that is the precursor for the delams  and eventual shedding of parts.  The report has one phrase about â€œbending  forward under airload.â€???   Some of the Warp hubs had the crack  problem a few years back, but I think most people consider the blades pretty  much bullet proof.   So seems to me you end up with two primary likely  scenarios.....you got three bum blades.....or, more likely, something in this  particular configuration caused higher inplane loads than normal and led to the  chordwise cracks.   In the certified world there would be a bunch of  expensive rotor dynamics manpower and computers calculating coupled modal  frequency placement followed by an order of magnitude more expensive strain  gaged flight test.

  

 One would hope that if there are other instances of â€œtransverseâ€ cracks in  the trailing edges of similar blades, then that information would be quickly  shared regarding types of aircraft and engine, time in service, etc. ..

  

 Bob

  

  



   [quote][b]

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:36 am Post subject: Warp Drive prop

the older version of the warp blades  but they are not foam core  but I am not sure what it is ,its a tan color hard material 

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:23 am Post subject: Warp Drive prop

Warp Drive props still have some sort of core, but I cannot tell you what it is. When I cut one down last Monday the first thing I noticed was that the center of each blade was a light gray color surrounded by the black carbon surface material which is about .09 to .12 thick. This prop is a 2005 vintage. 



Rick Girad



On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com (elleryweld(at)aol.com)> wrote:

[quote] the older version of the warp blades  but they are not foam core  but I am not sure what it is ,its a tan color hard material 

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:49 pm Post subject: Warp Drive prop

 

the older version of the warp blades  but they are not foam core  but I am not sure what it is ,its a tan color hard material 

[b]Ellery Batchelder Jr.[/b]

 

*********

 

ok...   are we talking the warp blades of the early foam core,,,  or the new warp designes?



 



Boyd y

 



[quote]************  Daryl sent me two sets of WD props to test on my Firestar in 1989.Â  Both sets were solid carbon fiber.Â  I didn't know they made a "cored" blade until Ellery had his fail.Â  BTW:Â  I didn't like the square tip or the fast taper tip blades.Â  I was hooked on Jim Culver's two blade with polyurethane edges.Â  Believe it was a 60X30 or 32, and worked perfect with the 447 and the FS. Seems that WD system (cored) should be well over 20 years old.Â  Don't think it stayed in production but a short time. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama [b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:01 pm Post subject: Warp Drive prop

Warp Drive props still have some sort of core, but I cannot tell you what it is. When I cut one down last Monday the first thing I noticed was that the center of each blade was a light gray color surrounded by the black carbon surface material which is about .09 to .12 thick. This prop is a 2005 vintage.

 

[quote] *****************  That's hardly enough to call it a core. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama [b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

flykolb(at)pa.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject: Warp Drive prop

Isn’t Rick saying the carbon fiber surface material is only .09 to .125 thick?  (Grammatically that  is what he is saying.)

If that is at the tip, it is one thing, but if that is at the thicker section at the root, then that is another.

I would be interested to know where along the blade that section was cut from.

Dennis

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck

Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:59 PM

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Warp Drive prop

 

 

Warp Drive props still have some sort of core, but I cannot tell you what it is. When I cut one down last Monday the first thing I noticed was that the center of each blade was a light gray color surrounded by the black carbon surface material which is about .09 to .12 thick. This prop is a 2005 vintage.

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   *****************  That's hardly enough to call it a core. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama   	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9 	  Quote: 	
		   	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6

  [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:34 pm Post subject: Warp Drive prop

 

Isn’t Rick saying the carbon fiber surface material is only .09 to .125 thick?  (Grammatically that  is what he is saying.)

If that is at the tip, it is one thing, but if that is at the thicker section at the root, then that is another.

I would be interested to know where along the blade that section was cut from.

Dennis 	  Quote: 	
		     Dennis/Kolbers: Yes, you are correct.  I misunderstood what he was saying. I don't see a core in his photos. I have also cut off WD blades to shorten.  All I cut were solid. 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4

  [quote][b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

bransom(at)ucdavis.edu
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:02 pm Post subject: Warp Drive prop

Sorry for being into this thread late but I'd like to know Ellery, did you ever notice any signs of trouble on the prop prior to failure, such as the cracks or anything other than a normal smooth surface?

 Thanks,

 -Ben Ransom

 

 

   From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com (elleryweld(at)aol.com)>

 Reply-To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)>

 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 18:25:21 -0500

 To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)>

 Subject: Re: Warp Drive prop

 

 

 

  Yes the NTSB report was finally finished up about 3 weeks ago it is a Warp drive Prop and I have been talking to a lawyer

 I am out an airplane and could have been out of life because of that Prop Who do they think they are using the public as 

 a test bed for there props why wasn't there ever a service bulletin out on there props to prevent this from happening again this is not 

 the first time this has happened to one of there props  from what the FAA has told me 

 

 

  

  Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

 --

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:33 am Post subject: Warp Drive prop

there was no signs damage or defects of the propellor blades prior to the last flight even though I did have

    one of the hub plates crack and I sent to warp and purchased new hub plates 30 Hours prior to this 

    

 

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:57 am Post subject: Warp Drive prop

there was no signs damage or defects of the propellor blades prior to the last flight even though I did have



 one of the hub plates crack and I sent to warp and purchased new hub plates 30 Hours prior to this 



 



[b]Ellery Batchelder Jr.[/b]



 	  Quote: 	
		     Ellery B/Kolbers: Correct me if I am wrong. The current version of solid carbon fiber WD blades has been in production since the early 1990's.  I tested a couple in the last 80's on the Firestar and started using them on my MKIII in 1993, first on the 582 and then the 912's. Weren't the blades you that failed on your MKIII a set of first run blades manufactured prior to the beginning of the solid carbon fiber blades? 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8

  [quote][b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: Warp Drive prop

yes my blades are from the earlier version

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:13 am Post subject: Warp Drive prop

The reason I was asking about the identification of Ellery's prop is that the photo of the inside of it does not match photos others have posted.  I have an old WD with 2 sets of blades.  One blade was broken when I flipped the plane over.  The inside of that blade doesn't seem to look like any other photo posted.  The conversation has been quite informative.  I have used tap testing on various laminates at work, and wasn't aware that it could be used as a tool on the prop.  Come spring, I will check mine.  My FS is one of the very early ones- no serial number- and the engine and prop may be the same age.  No reason was given for the extra blades that came with it, but there had been a storm flip over.

  Based on all the comments, my gut feeling is that old WD's may be of different construction, and the  newer one's are much stronger.  I may just send all I have down to Daryl at WD for inspection.  If I can figure out my camera and post a photo, I'll try.  My computer skills leave a lot to be desired.



                                              Bill Sullivan

                                              Windsor Locks,  Ct.

                                              FS 447, WD



--- On Sat, 1/14/12, william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net>

Subject: Warp Drive prop

To: "kolb list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Date: Saturday, January 14, 2012, 9:49 AM



  Ellery- Did anyone ever find out about the prop that came apart?  Last I remember, there was a discussion as to whether or not it was a stock factory  Warp Drive.



                                              Bill Sullivan

                                              Windsor Locks,  Ct.

                                              FS 447, Warp Drive prop



	
 [quote][b]

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum