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7suds(at)Chartermi.net
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 Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Warning |
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| Quote: | | Well, with the help of this group I’ve been able to work through the charging issue on my Model 5 Outback and actually get the maiden voyage in the history books, long story short on the charging issue I had 2 problems, the first was that the Kuntzleman Hotbox I have in my Kitfox is a custom order and is not wired internally the same as a standard Hotbox, finally figured that out by working with Mr. Kuntzleman, he was very helpful and quickly helped me identify the problem. My second problem was as Pete had suggested, the Voltage Regulator was toast, no doubt because I did not realize I had a custom Hotbox and wired it incorrectly. So with that behind me and the weather cooperating here in the UP I made the maiden voyage, and discovered my next challenge. The flight was uneventful other than the Low Fuel Warning Light started to flicker on and off, so I made one loop around the patch and landed. Since I have aircraft aluminum fuel lines from the butt ribs to the header tank I thought perhaps the flexible fuel lines between the butt rib and the tank might be getting pinched, so I swung the wings back and checked them, shortening them up a bit and tried it again, once I rotated and was up about 4’ the light came on again, so I aborted. I am running two 13 gal wing tanks into a 2 gal header tank behind the seat. Flex line from the tanks to the butt ribs and Aeroquip fittings and fuel line from the butt ribs to the header tanks, no filters in line. The low fuel warning sensor is a Carlo Gavazzi VP03 and it is new. I have done sustained run ups on the ground at 4500 RPM with no flickering of the light. Any thoughts, appreciated. Lloyd CudnohufskyModel 5 Outback 912ul IVO IFANorthern Mi. |
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Warning |
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My guess is that in the run between the tank outlet and the hard lines, you have an uphill run. It has been mentioned in the past several times, that an up hill run will trap a bubble and restrict fuel flow.
Lowell
From: Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky (7suds(at)Chartermi.net)
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 4:10 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Low Fuel Warning
[quote]Well, with the help of this group I’ve been able to work through the charging issue on my Model 5 Outback and actually get the maiden voyage in the history books, long story short on the charging issue I had 2 problems, the first was that the Kuntzleman Hotbox I have in my Kitfox is a custom order and is not wired internally the same as a standard Hotbox, finally figured that out by working with Mr. Kuntzleman, he was very helpful and quickly helped me identify the problem. My second problem was as Pete had suggested, the Voltage Regulator was toast, no doubt because I did not realize I had a custom Hotbox and wired it incorrectly. So with that behind me and the weather cooperating here in the UP I made the maiden voyage, and discovered my next challenge. The flight was uneventful other than the Low Fuel Warning Light started to flicker on and off, so I made one loop around the patch and landed. Since I have aircraft aluminum fuel lines from the butt ribs to the header tank I thought perhaps the flexible fuel lines between the butt rib and the tank might be getting pinched, so I swung the wings back and checked them, shortening them up a bit and tried it again, once I rotated and was up about 4’ the light came on again, so I aborted. I am running two 13 gal wing tanks into a 2 gal header tank behind the seat. Flex line from the tanks to the butt ribs and Aeroquip fittings and fuel line from the butt ribs to the header tanks, no filters in line. The low fuel warning sensor is a Carlo Gavazzi VP03 and it is new. I have done sustained run ups on the ground at 4500 RPM with no flickering of the light. Any thoughts, appreciated. Lloyd CudnohufskyModel 5 Outback 912ul IVO IFANorthern Mi. [b]
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jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraf
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Warning |
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Lloyd,
Congrats on the maiden voyage !!!
Most likely you have one or two issues…
<![if !supportLists]>1 <![endif]>Air in the top of the header tank.. not unusual to have trapped air in the top of the header tank that hasn’t found a way out yet and it is tripping the light sensor. It takes some time for the air to get out on a new aircraft.
<![if !supportLists]>2 <![endif]>It is a light sensor… sunlight can and does get into the area and trips the sensor.. assuming a PE tank. If it is an aluminum tank that would not be the case. Some have tried painting or wrapping the PE tank to keep sunlight out.
Again Congrats !!
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 5:10 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Low Fuel Warning
[quote]Well, with the help of this group I’ve been able to work through the charging issue on my Model 5 Outback and actually get the maiden voyage in the history books, long story short on the charging issue I had 2 problems, the first was that the Kuntzleman Hotbox I have in my Kitfox is a custom order and is not wired internally the same as a standard Hotbox, finally figured that out by working with Mr. Kuntzleman, he was very helpful and quickly helped me identify the problem. My second problem was as Pete had suggested, the Voltage Regulator was toast, no doubt because I did not realize I had a custom Hotbox and wired it incorrectly. So with that behind me and the weather cooperating here in the UP I made the maiden voyage, and discovered my next challenge. The flight was uneventful other than the Low Fuel Warning Light started to flicker on and off, so I made one loop around the patch and landed. Since I have aircraft aluminum fuel lines from the butt ribs to the header tank I thought perhaps the flexible fuel lines between the butt rib and the tank might be getting pinched, so I swung the wings back and checked them, shortening them up a bit and tried it again, once I rotated and was up about 4’ the light came on again, so I aborted. I am running two 13 gal wing tanks into a 2 gal header tank behind the seat. Flex line from the tanks to the butt ribs and Aeroquip fittings and fuel line from the butt ribs to the header tanks, no filters in line. The low fuel warning sensor is a Carlo Gavazzi VP03 and it is new. I have done sustained run ups on the ground at 4500 RPM with no flickering of the light. Any thoughts, appreciated. Lloyd CudnohufskyModel 5 Outback 912ul IVO IFANorthern Mi. [b]
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Warning |
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On 2/6/2012 5:41 PM, jdmcbean wrote: | Quote: |
1 Air in the top of the header tank.. not unusual to have trapped air in the top of the header tank that hasn’t found a way out yet and it is tripping the light sensor. It takes some time for the air to get out on a new aircraft. |
Any time I drain the header it takes a flight or two to get the bubbles out, and I have good uphill runs on all my lines. I just fly around the patch looking for a constant on. If the low fuel stays on solid I land. Hasn't happened yet. (Except the couple of times I really DID run out of fuel.)
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
[quote][b]
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Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Warning |
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On 2/6/2012 4:10 PM, Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky wrote: | Quote: | | Quote: | | Any thoughts, appreciated. |
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Oh, and by the way. Love your plane. Looks great and it looks like you did a meticulous job on it.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
Do not archive.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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Fox5flyer
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:07 am Post subject: Re: Low Fuel Warning |
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[quote="lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net"]My guess is that in the run between the tank outlet and the hard lines, you have an uphill run. It has been mentioned in the past several times, that an up hill run will trap a bubble and restrict fuel flow.
Lowell
All of the suggestions are good ones, Lloyd. The fact that you only get the low fuel warning is on takeoff possibly indicates that the airplane goes from tail down to level flight and with the movement, any air in the header is moving around and setting off the sensor. When I had a PE tank (now aluminum) after maintenance I always had to rock the wings for quite a long time before I was able to get the air bubbles out, sometimes as much as ten minutes. Of course, I had clear lines and was able to see when the bubbles stopped coming. A very common cause, already mentioned, was light shining through the (PE) header tank which is easily cured by painting it blank or temporarily wrapping it in a black plastic trash bag. Those light sensors are very sensitive.
Nice job on those fuel lines and the airplane looks great.
Good luck,
Deke
S5 in NE Michigan (Mikado)
No Snow!
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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7suds(at)Chartermi.net
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Warning |
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Guys,
Thanks for the responses, this is encouraging news and fits my accounts. During the first flight I noticed the light only flickering halfway around the pattern, prior to that I had done some taxi work and allot of run ups to temp. After the first flight I folded the wings back to check the flexible hoses trying to address what I felt might be a fuel flow issue. Then on the second flight as I rotated I got a solid light, probably because I introduced air when I folded the wings back and disconnected the flex lines, then did only a normal run up before the flight. With that said do you think I should be able to lift the tail in the hanger and see the light go on? (engine off, master on), I think I will try it, either way I feel much more comfortable taking it up again and getting some time on it. Also, John you had mentioned about the make-up of the tank and the sensor, it is a light sensor and the header tank is the PE but it is painted black on the outside, (hopefully I did not miss a spot). Thanks to all for the advice and compliments, I will keep you posted.
lloyd
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 7:58 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Low Fuel Warning
On 2/6/2012 4:10 PM, Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky wrote: | Quote: | | Any thoughts, appreciated. |
Oh, and by the way. Love your plane. Looks great and it looks like you did a meticulous job on it.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
Do not archive.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Warning |
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Guys,
Been a few weeks since I updated on the low fuel warning concern I had, you guys were spot on, an air bubble in the header tank, I lifted the tail in the hanger and with a little work was able to relieve it. Weather has not been the best since my last flight attempt until today, managed to get about 1.5 hrs in the air and actually settle myself down and do some observations. Running an IVO IFA, at min pitch full throttle climb out was 5800 rpm, 65 mph and 1200 fpm climb, I think the lower end of the prop is set pretty close. Did not do any work around cruise today, throttled back to 5K and stayed local saw 1400 EGT, 180 degrees Oil Temp, 50 psi oil pressure and 150 cht. 35 degrees OAT. I think I will need to install a manifold pressure gauge to properly set the prop for cruise, love to hear your experiences around using a manifold pressure gauge and what gauge you are running. 2 landings today. 1st landing 1 notch flaps, allot of down nose pitch, could use more trim (my own design, will need to adjust) in this configuration. Landing was OK, nothing to brag about, 2nd landing no flaps, 3 pt perfect, I called it a day.
Thanks all for the help on the low fuel warning!!
Lloyd Cudnohufsky
Northern Mi.
KF 5 912ul IVO IFA
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 7:58 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Low Fuel Warning
On 2/6/2012 4:10 PM, Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky wrote: | Quote: | | Any thoughts, appreciated. |
Oh, and by the way. Love your plane. Looks great and it looks like you did a meticulous job on it.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
Do not archive.
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: Low Fuel Warning |
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Hi Lloyd,
You don't need that gauge. You have a 912UL so just set the prop to get between 5500-5600 rpm WOT flat and level at your average cruise altitude.
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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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