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Voltage Regulator Replacement

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samira.h(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: Voltage Regulator Replacement

Gentlemen (-women),



finally I have received good news from

Zeftronics. They are offering a solid

state voltage regulator (with overvoltage

protection) what might be fit to replace

the obsolete Nanchang and YAK regulator.



For your information I have attached 2

pdf files.



If we get enough interest we could

save some money in placing a

collective/joint order, what do you

think?



cheers



Elmar

G1XX1P,_G2XX1P,_121311.pdf

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04042012-Elmar_Hegenauer-G2501P.pdf

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GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject: Voltage Regulator Replacement

Interesting, I see two problems. First it is only good to 50 amps and our

gernerators are rated higher than that. Second, the 1 off cost is almost as

much as a replacement alternator with regulator. 



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:34 pm Post subject: Voltage Regulator Replacement

Actually, there is nothing really wrong with the current Russian design,

and I like it myself because I understand it and can work with it.  That

said, this unit would replace the TOTAL current electrical design, to

include not only the voltage pile regulator, but also the over-voltage

unit, along with the 200 "Combined Relay" device, although you might

want to keep the bucking transformer that would still be in there.  



Our generators are in fact rated to about 100 amps, so the voltage

regulator described here would not allow the generator to develop full

output.  That said, there are not too many people that are going to need

100 amps at 28 volts DC.   That is one heck of a lot of current!  But,

that's just one small point, there are more important ones to consider.

What you would be left with when doing this conversion would be a

Russian Generator (very old design) with a very modern ... and very

expensive .... control device.  As long as the new unit was 100%

reliable with a good reputation for low failure rate, and as long as

Russian generators remain cheap, this might be an alternative worth

considering.  



BUT!!!!!

Personally, I have now installed a number of B&C SK-35 and SK-50

alternators.  You are looking at about the same price (plus or minus a

little) and you are getting not only a new LS1A voltage regulator, but

you are also getting a brand new 35 or 50 amp alternator.  This

alternator is carefully built and balanced and does not have the

complexity of the generator, needing reverse current protection, etc.

Alternators are simply (in my opinion) a superior design as compared to

old generators.  



I have no experience on converting CJ designs to B&C alternators, but

for the YAKS, if I am going to pull all this old junk out anyway, I

would strongly prefer the B&C alternators, versus keeping the existing

Russian generator and then using a $975 regulator.  



Agreed that the price comes WAY down if you buy a bundle of them.   



Just my 2 cents,  appreciate the info very much. 



Mark Bitterlich

--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:34 pm Post subject: Voltage Regulator Replacement

I missed it.  What was the cost? 



--

samira.h(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: Voltage Regulator Replacement

George,



I have some questions regarding

your alternator conversion.



Is it rated for the same ambient

temperature in the engine compartment

as the original generator?



Are the installation costs of the whole

alternator system less than compared

to the replacement of a single voltage

regulator?



Can your alternation conversion be installed

with complying to the rules of authorities

in any other country but the US? Wouldn't

it require expensive LSTCs, e.g. in Canada?



Would your alternator conversion affect

the C of G of the aircraft outside of the

envelope?



Is your alternator solution more

reliable than the original generator?



Could you please post the spec sheet

what stipulates that the YAK 52 generator

has more than 50 Amps output.

Thank you in advance.



cheers



Elmar

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: Voltage Regulator Replacement

I forgot to mention that we have a draft service bulletin that was generated

for Yak Design bureau to "officially" replace the Yak-52 generator system

with the 50 amp alternator and regulator. Also saves about 30 lbs. I can

post a copy if anyone is interested. The Yak design bureau went in to

oblivion just as we were developing this.



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:18 pm Post subject: Voltage Regulator Replacement

I am not George.  Sorry. I know that. 



However, the original generator is spec'ed to as I remember 3KW output.  Take 3000 and divide it by output voltage and that is the maximum current.  100 amps is darn close. 



That is only with full cooling air flow applied to the generator.  If you do not supply cooling air, rated output drops to about 20-25 amps or so.   Specs can be found in any M-14P Operational manual and they are available on-line to anyone that wants to go look.  



Interesting question regarding Canada.  



Mark Bitterlich



Never mind, I looked them up for you.  Here are your specs. 



GENERATOR GSR-3000M, SERIES 4 - DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION

2.2. SPECIFICATIONS

Voltage ........................................................ .......................................28.5 V

Power (at 30 V) ................................................ ...................................3 kW

Load current ...............................................................................100 A

Speed of rotation .............................................. ..................................4000 to 9000 r/min

Duty ........................................................... .........................................Continuous

Permissible overloads:

Permissible current at 5000 to 8000 r/min during 1 min ......................150 A

Permissible current at 5600 to 8000 r/min during 5 a ......... ................200 A

Permissible load current without air blowing for 15 min ...... ...............30A

Nominal speed of rotation at load of 100 A and voltage

of 28.5 V with short shunt (without regulator)

when warmed up ............................................... .................................Up to 3600 r/min

Forced cooling is carried out by blowing with on-coming non-heated clean air.

Total air pressure at cooling inlet duct with dynamic

pressure at least 50 mm HnO .......... ...................................................At least 150 mm HpO

Air flow rate at barometric pressure of 760 mm Hg ............................. At least 35 dm /s

Mass ......................................................... ..........................................Up to 11.6 kg

Winding resistance at 20 °C:

Armature winding ............................................. ...................................0.024 ohm_M 0 %

Fie Id winding ................................................ .....................................2.20 ohms^6 %

Interpole winding ............................................ ....................................0.0122 ohm

Brushes:

Make ......................................................... ..........................................MGS-7I

Number ................................................................................................8 pea

Overall dimensions ........................................... ..................................7.2x12x25 mm

Generator offers trouble-free operation when exposed to the following environmental and mechanical

effects:

Relative humidity . ................................................................................Up to 98 %

Temperature variations .......................................................................From minus 60 to 50 °C



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject: Voltage Regulator Replacement

By the way:  

http://www.acroyak.net/img/M14PMotordescription.PDF

Mark



--

brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: Voltage Regulator Replacement

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E  wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <[url=javascript:;]mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil[/url]>

  



 

 What you would be left with when doing this conversion would be a

 Russian Generator (very old design) with a very modern ... and very

 expensive .... control device.  As long as the new unit was 100%

 reliable with a good reputation for low failure rate, and as long as

 Russian generators remain cheap, this might be an alternative worth

 considering.

 

 BUT!!!!!

 

 

 Personally, I have now installed a number of B&C SK-35 and SK-50

 alternators.  You are looking at about the same price (plus or minus a

 little) and you are getting not only a new LS1A voltage regulator, but

 you are also getting a brand new 35 or 50 amp alternator.  This

 alternator is carefully built and balanced and does not have the

 complexity of the generator, needing reverse current protection, etc.

 Alternators are simply (in my opinion) a superior design as compared to

 old generators. 	




Amen. The advantages of the alternator, i.e. reduced weight, reduced complexity, increased performance, and increased reliability, completely outweigh trying to repair a failed generator system. 

 



-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com (brian(at)lloyd.com)

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

 +1.916.877.5067 (USA)



  [quote][b]

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:19 pm Post subject: Voltage Regulator Replacement

George



I would appreciate a copy of it please as we are building our

airworthiness. It would be interesting to include such modification in it.



Thanks a lot



Didier



Le 4 avril 2012 23:42, George Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com> a écrit :



[quote] 



 I forgot to mention that we have a draft service bulletin that was

 generated

 for Yak Design bureau to "officially" replace the Yak-52 generator system

 with the 50 amp alternator and regulator. Also saves about 30 lbs. I can

 post a copy if anyone is interested. The Yak design bureau went in to

 oblivion just as we were developing this.



 --

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

cd001633(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:53 pm Post subject: Voltage Regulator Replacement

Hi Elmar,



I installed the B&C K-35 amp Alternator on my CJ-6A (M-14P engine, Whirlwind

Prop) about ten years ago - LOVE it!  It comes with the Regulator as Mark

indicated and cost is about $1K for the complete system.  



No problem with engine compartment temps.  Naturally it was designed to

operate in that temp range.



Removal of old Generator and installing new Alternator took 35 minutes.

Cutting out and throwing away old regulator/filter and wiring another 30

minutes. Installing the Voltage regulator and new wiring including to the

light in cockpit - 3 hours.



Installing the B&C Alternator and Regulator saved a net 27 pounds.

Definitely affected CG...  Since I removed about 160 pounds of old radios

from 

The compartment behind the rear seat, the Alternator net weight savings

actually helped as I needed to put less Lead weight in the tail cone...



Old generator known to be very reliable - my 10 years with the B&C

Alternator pointing to a similar conclusion...



As to paperwork for the Alternator conversion outside the U.S - I don't

know...



My two cents (5 cents now adjusted for inflation)... 



Sam Sax

CJ-6A

Miami, FL



--

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