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ainut(at)knology.net
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 Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject: Expanded horizons for the List?Marketing suggestion |
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Thank you, Terry! Midway through the first paragraph I was salivating!
I've got to find out how to take that course!
David M.
Terry Watson wrote:
[quote]
History is being made faster than I had realized. Here is an article on Wired Magazine's website about a couple of Stanford professors opening up their course on artificial intelligence to all comers by way of the web. The result: 160,000 students from 190 countries signed up. Just think of what all that brainpower is going to do to our future.: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/ff_aiclass/all/1
Terry
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ainut(at)knology.net
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: Expanded horizons for the List?Marketing suggestion |
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Mr. Nuckolls, don't forget curiosity and the sheer joy of learning.
David M.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
| Quote: |
<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> It is easy to confuse the quality of the presentation, which can be
> easily be shown to and judged by others and the quality of the
> knowledge transfer, which is not as easily judged.
But who is the ultimate arbiter of quality? If I
enroll in some formal class, is my grade in that
class the true reflection of value or 'quality'.
As student, I think I have to be the final judge
as to the value received (knowledge) for value
given ($time$ and $tuition$).
There have been hundreds of studies on retention
rates for material offered in the legacy student-
classroom-professor setting. For the time and dollars
it costs to go to college, one is prompted to re-assess
return on investment.
<<<snip>>>
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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: Expanded horizons for the List?Marketing suggestion |
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Greetings Bob,
I think we have mixed 2 distinct discussions in to one thread. There
are 2 systems that I think merit discussing. One is the teacher/learner
system as described by the 2 people on a log. The second is the
university/student system which goes beyond the scope of any discussion
about knowledge transfer and involves money, politics, and ego. The one
thing to keep in mind about the university/student system is that
transferring knowledge is not the primary, nor do I think based on my
experience one of the top 10, reasons for it's existence. This is what
lead me to advocate for you avoiding academia.
In the teacher/learner system both judge the quality by the transfer of
knowledge.
In the university/student system the student is the product and the
quality of anything implemented in the university system 1s judged by
it's cost, the amount of time it requires from the staff when being used
to prepare the student to pass the tests required to make them
employable, and any number of other criteria which may or may not have a
bearing on if or how knowledge is acquired by the student. The student
invests $time$ based on the premise that the credential will yield a
better quality of life in the future, regardless of whether or not the
knowledge is acquired or retained.
A discussion of possible changes and their consequences to the
university/student system would be a list unto it's self.
I question whether defining it as "your wife's employer" rather than as
"the formal education system" changes whether or not it's a duck.
I hope however you choose to develop your knowledge transfer
methodology, you will keep the teacher/learner system as a viable part.
"Look, look, them electrons are heading up that draw. We'll have to
round them up and drive 'em on into Kansas City. 
do not archive
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/27/2012 05:04 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
| Quote: |
<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>
> It is easy to confuse the quality of the presentation, which can be
> easily be shown to and judged by others and the quality of the
> knowledge transfer, which is not as easily judged.
But who is the ultimate arbiter of quality? If I
enroll in some formal class, is my grade in that
class the true reflection of value or 'quality'.
As student, I think I have to be the final judge
as to the value received (knowledge) for value
given ($time$ and $tuition$).
There have been hundreds of studies on retention
rates for material offered in the legacy student-
classroom-professor setting. For the time and dollars
it costs to go to college, one is prompted to re-assess
return on investment.
But when you sit down with a well crafted KhanProcess
presentation, what demands are made of the investor?
Who is to decide whether the efforts 'invested' have
a satisfactory return? Certainly the instructor is
completely out of the loop.
Of 1500 or so folks who receive the List messages
every day, there are only a few dozens of 'active'
participants . . . but I would think that the remainder
would un-subscribe if they did not find value in
watching those conversations go by.
> College professors are as prone to be attracted to shiny things as
> anyone else.
Sure, but this isn't about professors of any stripe, it's about packaging
useful information into formats that are free of intimidation,
expenses bordering on predatory and a pedantic focus
on getting a grade/sheepskin.
> I think to try to engage with the formal educational system during the
> startup of your endeavor will add nothing and present addition problems.
I haven't the least interest in engaging the formal
education system. I've offered some observations and
links to what appears to be a bright educational star
coming over the horizon . . . but whether or not 'they'
take the process any further has no implications for
anything I propose to do. I DO have an interest in seeing
my wife's employer do well . . . for obvious reasons.
She will be experimenting with these tools for her own
purposes and then promoting them to the rest of the
faculty. Any risk for "presenting additional problems"
is not a clear. I think problems burdening most institutions
are generated from within and perhaps too deeply entrenched.
> Create the mechanism to transfer the knowledge from you to the
> motivated learner, and the knowledge will be spread. If academia finds
> it useful and not a threat to it's paradigm, perhaps they will use it.
Exactly!
> For me the value of resources like Kahn Academy is access to the
> knowledge without being subjected to foibles academia.
Right on again . . . which goes to my assertion of
problems being mostly generated from within.
> I am currently watching the Calculus presentations. They are a good
> example of the simple tools that are necessary to convey profound
> knowledge.
Yes . . . yet nobody has made any demands upon you
nor taken it upon themselves to assess the 'quality'
of your outcome. If you're not happy with your experience,
no doubt you'll discontinue the activity. If you
are pleased with the outcome then the return on
investment can be nothing but good. Talk about win-win.
Bob . . .
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