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take off with half flaps

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Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:23 pm Post subject: take off with half flaps

A rule of thumb I learned from my instructor is (before takeoff roll) to  lower the flaps to be even with the full deflected aileron.

  

 This gives good lift without introducing too much drag.  With a nose  gear I use full up elevator during the takeoff roll until the nose gear is off  the runway.  Raise the flaps as soon as you are clear of any  obstacles.

  

 Dan

 N766DH about 500 hours flying since 2004

  

  

  In a message dated 4/14/2012 6:26:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  sarg314(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I    normally take off in my 6A with no flaps.  I let the nose stay down (=    lower climb rate) while it accelerates to 105kt IAS and then raise the nose to    hold that speed. I have a fixed pitch Catto prop, so take offs are not as    energetic as with a constant speed.   



I vaguely recall that Vans    favors half flaps for take off, I guess in order to shorten ground roll and/or    get over that obstacle at the end of the runway.  What is the recommended    procedure for the half flap take off?  When do you drop the flaps?     How do you manage the pitch to get the most out of it?

thanks,

-- 

Tom Sargent

 	  Quote: 	
		  



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larywil(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: take off with half flaps

Tom,



I do not want to sound like a smart ass, but why 

do you want to use your flaps on take-off, other 

than a very short field or soft field. I remember 

that in the old days, Van was flying out of a 

very, very short grass strip ( ~ 1500 ft.). For 

him, it would make sense. But the average 160 hp 

F/P RV will take off in 800 ft. or less. The 180 

with a C/S will do it 400-500 feet. I'm only at 

1/2 throttle when my RV-4 is off the ground at 1000 feet or less.



I actually never use flaps to land unless the 

strip is less than 2500 ft. with trees.  This has 

something to do with the fact that my manual 

flaps are very difficult to raise at over 70 

knots. I had a problem one day with them, and 

decided to see what the difference was between 

Flaps and No Flaps landings. There were only 

minor differences. And "go arounds" were simpler 

because I didn't have to worry about the flaps. 

Now, maybe my C/S prop helps to slow me down in 

the later part of the approach. But it doesn't

slow me down over the numbers. RV's are 

incredibly dirty when your doing a round out at 

65-70 mph.  They slow down and descend like a J-3 

Cub. Which, of course, doesn't even have flaps. 

When people see an RV-4, 6, 7 or 8 they always 

think of it as a "high speed super demon" They 

always want to know how fast it goes. I like to 

tell them how slow it can go ( Then I brag about 

my 3000 ft./min climb and 200 mph top speed) 



Finally, please note; I rank in the bottom half 

of the "pilot ability rating" . I'm am just 

reporting my experiences after 13 years.



Louis Willig

At 06:22 PM 4/14/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I normally take off in my 6A with no flaps.Â  I 

let the nose stay down (= lower climb rate) 

while it accelerates to 105kt IAS and then raise 

the nose to hold that speed. I have a fixed 

pitch Catto prop, so take offs are not as 

energetic as with a constant speed. Â



I vaguely recall that Vans favors half flaps for 

take off, I guess in order to shorten ground 

roll and/or get over that obstacle at the end of 

the runway.Â  What is the recommended procedure 

for the half flap take off?Â  When do you drop 

the flaps?Â  How do you manage the pitch to get the most out of it?



thanks,

--

Tom Sargent

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Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: take off with half flaps

Well,  the highest percentage of accidents are loss of control on either 

landing or takeoff. The sooner you leave the ground, the lower the risk. 

Flaps reduce ground roll, which reduces wear and tear on your tires and 

landing gear.  IMHO, flaps should be used except when you have a good 

reason not to, like strong crosswinds, undulating runway surface, etc.

On 4/14/2012 5:55 PM, Louis Willig wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Tom,

 I do not want to sound like a smart ass, but why do you want to use 

 your flaps on take-off, other than a very short field or soft field. I 

 remember that in the old days, Van was flying out of a very, very 

 short grass strip ( ~ 1500 ft.). For him, it would make sense. But the 

 average 160 hp F/P RV will take off in 800 ft. or less. The 180 with a 

 C/S will do it 400-500 feet. I'm only at 1/2 throttle when my RV-4 is 

 off the ground at 1000 feet or less.

 I actually never use flaps to land unless the strip is less than 2500 

 ft. with trees.  This has something to do with the fact that my manual 

 flaps are very difficult to raise at over 70 knots. I had a problem 

 one day with them, and decided to see what the difference was between 

 Flaps and No Flaps landings. There were only minor differences. And 

 "go arounds" were simpler because I didn't have to worry about the 

 flaps. Now, maybe my C/S prop helps to slow me down in the later part 

 of the approach. But it doesn't

 slow me down over the numbers. RV's are incredibly dirty when your 

 doing a round out at 65-70 mph.  They slow down and descend like a J-3 

 Cub. Which, of course, doesn't even have flaps. When people see an 

 RV-4, 6, 7 or 8 they always think of it as a "high speed super demon" 

 They always want to know how fast it goes. I like to tell them how 

 slow it can go ( Then I brag about my 3000 ft./min climb and 200 mph 

 top speed) 

 Finally, please note; I rank in the bottom half of the "pilot ability 

 rating" . I'm am just reporting my experiences after 13 years.

 Louis Willig

 At 06:22 PM 4/14/2012, you wrote:

> I normally take off in my 6A with no flaps.Â  I let the nose stay 

> down (= lower climb rate) while it accelerates to 105kt IAS and then 

> raise the nose to hold that speed. I have a fixed pitch Catto prop, 

> so take offs are not as energetic as with a constant speed. Â

>

> I vaguely recall that Vans favors half flaps for take off, I guess in 

> order to shorten ground roll and/or get over that obstacle at the end 

> of the runway.Â  What is the recommended procedure for the half flap 

> take off?Â  When do you drop the flaps?Â  How do you manage the pitch 

> to get the most out of it?

>

> thanks,

> -- 

> Tom Sargent

>

-----

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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:09 pm Post subject: take off with half flaps

Adding to Kelly's point. I like to unweight the front end ASAP and a little flaps helps there too. I don't think half flaps is right. Suggest you try 1 notch or the equivalent. I put a few degrees in on my 8A go FWF and don't touch anything but trim till I can make the field. Then I reconfigure.

I suggest you go out some nice morning and try 6 TO's in various configurations to see how it feels. 

Robin



 	  Quote: 	
		  


	





Well,  the highest percentage of accidents are loss of control on either landing or takeoff. The sooner you leave the ground, the lower the risk. 

Flaps reduce ground roll, which reduces wear and tear on your tires and landing gear.  IMHO, flaps should be used except when you have a good reason not to, like strong crosswinds, undulating runway surface, etc.

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sarg314(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:55 pm Post subject: take off with half flaps

The reason I am asking is to find out how to best do a short field take off in this plane.Â  I do landings with and without flaps, but my takes offs are always the same.Â  

-- 

Tom Sargent

  [quote][b]

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ghinman(at)mymts.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:45 am Post subject: take off with half flaps

Another reason to take off with no flap is for

  engine cooling.

           If you notice the engine overheating on takeoff or climb-out

  try less flap or no flap.You will notice a difference.

           I fly an RV-8.



-- 

George H. Inman

ghinman(at)mts.net

204 287 8334

204 799 7062

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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:19 am Post subject: take off with half flaps

On 04/14/2012 11:52 PM, thomas sargent wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		  The reason I am asking is to find out how to best do a       short field take off in this plane.  I do landings with and       without flaps, but my takes offs are always the same.         

       -- 

       Tom Sargent

     	
     Go for it, especially for short field or soft             field operations. I think you'll be amazed at how much             quicker it will get off the ground with some flaps. Just             remember that full flaps might up the ante a bit if you have             an engine out on takeoff while still at low speeds. Try all             configs, but I'd bet that 1/3-1/2 would be the best             compromise for takeoff.

             

             The 1st time I did it, it was by accident (left them down to             protect them from spectators at a flyin, & forgot to             raise 'em prior to takeoff). I popped off the ground so             quickly (grass strip) that it almost scared me. 

             

             Raising them is pretty safe at anything above about 70 kts,             as long as you're not trying to climb over an obstacle when             you raise them. There'll be minimal settling, but drag goes             down & acceleration compensates quickly.

             

             Hope that helps,

             

             Charlie

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