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genie(at)swissmail.org
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 Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:15 am Post subject: Gascolator (Was: Hoses and O-rings in RV-6 with Lycoming) |
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Thanks to all for your replies. And thanks to Charlie for bringing up
the subject of gascolators.
On the subject of gascolators, my RV-6 is equipped with one. As this
is the only aircraft I have ever flown which has a gascolator I was
wondering about its utility. Would it be just as well to remove it?
Is Mogas more susceptible to vapour lock therein as the gascolator is
located in front of the firewall?
Thanks.
George Nielsen
| Quote: | Time: 04:36:13 PM PST US
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Hoses and O-rings in RV-6 with Lycoming O-320
On 04/08/2012 09:48 AM, George Nielsen wrote:
>
> My plan is to enable my RV-6 and its O-320 engine to run on Mogas,
> including the variety that contains ethanol. I have taken a good look
> at the fuel system and done some dismantling but I have found no
> O-rings. The fuel system contains several hoses, some black, some
> wrapped in dark orange. I suppose that the latter is to protect them,
> is it not?
>
> I would be grateful if anyone could tell me how many hoses an RV-6 has
> in its fuel system, what their dimensions are and whether the fuel
> system also included O-rings or anything else that may be susceptible
> to Mogas, ethanol or water. If that is the case I would like to know
> how many of these are present and what their dimensions are. Thanks.
>
> Kind regards
>
> George Nielsen
> RV-6 PH-XGN
> The Hague, the Netherlands
If the fuel system is 'stock', as designed by Van's, and you have the
standard fuel pickups in the tanks (not the 'flop tubes'), then there
should be only aluminum line & aluminum fittings from the tank to the
firewall, with metal-to-metal flare fittings; no O-rings. Van's stock
fuel selector should be fine, as well. Depending on age, if you have a
gascolator, it could very well have rubber gaskets that alcohol will
attack. The flexible hoses are an unknown. If you can't determine the
actual materials in the hoses, the safe thing would be to simply replace
.them with teflon lined hose. (USA FAA recommendation is to replace any
but the new teflon type hose every 5 years, anyway, though many people
don't do that.) The mechanical fuel pump will likely need to be rebuilt
with current technology diaphragms & seals; older mechanical pumps *do
not* survive alcohol for very long. The carb or injector is likely OK,
but I'd contact the manufacturer to be sure.
Hope that helps,
Charlie
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:45 am Post subject: Gascolator (Was: Hoses and O-rings in RV-6 with Lycoming) |
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George:
On RV's the location of (MOST) gascolators is in a position that is not easily accessible and therefor does not get inspected on the pre-flight. Consider - Most GA aircraft does not have a gascolator.
As for Vapor Lock - Old wives-tails die hard. Yes, MoGas does have a lower vapor pressure than AvGas but the difference is not that drastic to cause vapor lock when the AvGas would not. I ran a test a few years back... One tank MoGas, other tank AvGas - Very Hot day - Short flight around the pattern - Leaned to heat thing up - Landed - Faced away from the wind - And restarted ... Difficult Starting, all the conditions and symptoms of vapor lock. I did the same thing running off the other tank - DIFFICULT STARTING.
So, hypothesis: If you do things WRONG on a HOT DAY. No matter what fuel you use you can get Vapor Lock.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 5:16 AM, George Nielsen <genie(at)swissmail.org (genie(at)swissmail.org)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV6-List message posted by: George Nielsen <genie(at)swissmail.org (genie(at)swissmail.org)>
Thanks to all for your replies. And thanks to Charlie for bringing up the subject of gascolators.
On the subject of gascolators, my RV-6 is equipped with one. As this is the only aircraft I have ever flown which has a gascolator I was wondering about its utility. Would it be just as well to remove it? Is Mogas more susceptible to vapour lock therein as the gascolator is located in front of the firewall?
Thanks.
George Nielsen
| Quote: | Time: 04:36:13 PM PST US
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net)>
Subject: Re: Hoses and O-rings in RV-6 with Lycoming O-320
On 04/08/2012 09:48 AM, George Nielsen wrote:
>
> My plan is to enable my RV-6 and its O-320 engine to run on Mogas,
> including the variety that contains ethanol. I have taken a good look
> at the fuel system and done some dismantling but I have found no
> O-rings. The fuel system contains several hoses, some black, some
> wrapped in dark orange. I suppose that the latter is to protect them,
> is it not?
>
> I would be grateful if anyone could tell me how many hoses an RV-6 has
> in its fuel system, what their dimensions are and whether the fuel
> system also included O-rings or anything else that may be susceptible
> to Mogas, ethanol or water. If that is the case I would like to know
> how many of these are present and what their dimensions are. Thanks.
>
> Kind regards
>
> George Nielsen
> RV-6 PH-XGN
> The Hague, the Netherlands
If the fuel system is 'stock', as designed by Van's, and you have the
standard fuel pickups in the tanks (not the 'flop tubes'), then there
should be only aluminum line & aluminum fittings from the tank to the
firewall, with metal-to-metal flare fittings; no O-rings. Van's stock
fuel selector should be fine, as well. Depending on age, if you have a
gascolator, it could very well have rubber gaskets that alcohol will
attack. The flexible hoses are an unknown. If you can't determine the
actual materials in the hoses, the safe thing would be to simply replace
.them with teflon lined hose. (USA FAA recommendation is to replace any
but the new teflon type hose every 5 years, anyway, though many people
don't do that.) The mechanical fuel pump will likely need to be rebuilt
with current technology diaphragms & seals; older mechanical pumps *do
not* survive alcohol for very long. The carb or injector is likely OK,
but I'd contact the manufacturer to be sure.
Hope that helps,
Charlie
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ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject: Gascolator (Was: Hoses and O-rings in RV-6 with Lycoming) |
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Forgot to mention the O-rings in the fuel caps. Older black ones will probably swell up with any auto fuel (at least they will on USA blends). Ask Van about the newer brown ones, or do some homework on materials. There are plenty of O-ring materials that will work fine.
I'd suggest reading through the FAA STC's for auto fuel to determine for yourself whether you can assume that *all* FAA approved avgas related products are safe with auto gas. Wait; never mind. There are no FAA STC's that allow alcohol laced autogas in certified aircraft, so STC's are meaningless when looking for an answer to your question. I can say for sure that O-rings in at least one older gascolator will dissolve in alcohol.
Also forgot to mention tank sealant. Again, age of the original product used matters. The older sealants used in Van's tanks will not stand up to USA auto fuel blends (even without alcohol). Newer stuff probably will, but you'd need to check with the sealant manufacturer & give them the exact model # & age of the sealant to know without finding out the hard way. (Personal experience with alcohol free auto fuel in a -4 completed in 1992.)
If you've got a 160 hp engine (higher compression), be cautious of detonation unless you run premium. (I run premium in mine.)
Charlie
Love mogas in my Lyc, but with older planes, there have been issues to deal with...
On 04/09/2012 04:16 AM, George Nielsen wrote: [quote]--> RV6-List message posted by: George Nielsen <genie(at)swissmail.org> (genie(at)swissmail.org)
Thanks to all for your replies. And thanks to Charlie for bringing up the subject of gascolators.
On the subject of gascolators, my RV-6 is equipped with one. As this is the only aircraft I have ever flown which has a gascolator I was wondering about its utility. Would it be just as well to remove it? Is Mogas more susceptible to vapour lock therein as the gascolator is located in front of the firewall?
Thanks.
George Nielsen
| Quote: | Time: 04:36:13 PM PST US
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net)
Subject: Re: Hoses and O-rings in RV-6 with Lycoming O-320
On 04/08/2012 09:48 AM, George Nielsen wrote:
>
> My plan is to enable my RV-6 and its O-320 engine to run on Mogas,
> including the variety that contains ethanol. I have taken a good look
> at the fuel system and done some dismantling but I have found no
> O-rings. The fuel system contains several hoses, some black, some
> wrapped in dark orange. I suppose that the latter is to protect them,
> is it not?
>
> I would be grateful if anyone could tell me how many hoses an RV-6 has
> in its fuel system, what their dimensions are and whether the fuel
> system also included O-rings or anything else that may be susceptible
> to Mogas, ethanol or water. If that is the case I would like to know
> how many of these are present and what their dimensions are. Thanks.
>
> Kind regards
>
> George Nielsen
> RV-6 PH-XGN
> The Hague, the Netherlands
If the fuel system is 'stock', as designed by Van's, and you have the
standard fuel pickups in the tanks (not the 'flop tubes'), then there
should be only aluminum line & aluminum fittings from the tank to the
firewall, with metal-to-metal flare fittings; no O-rings. Van's stock
fuel selector should be fine, as well. Depending on age, if you have a
gascolator, it could very well have rubber gaskets that alcohol will
attack. The flexible hoses are an unknown. If you can't determine the
actual materials in the hoses, the safe thing would be to simply replace
.them with teflon lined hose. (USA FAA recommendation is to replace any
but the new teflon type hose every 5 years, anyway, though many people
don't do that.) The mechanical fuel pump will likely need to be rebuilt
with current technology diaphragms & seals; older mechanical pumps *do
not* survive alcohol for very long. The carb or injector is likely OK,
but I'd contact the manufacturer to be sure.
Hope that helps,
Charlie
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV6-List |
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