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While Checking the Magnetos, intermittent shutdown

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matronics(at)rtist.nl
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:22 am Post subject: While Checking the Magnetos, intermittent shutdown

Dennis,



When you switch off the left coil (short-circuit the coil tab to ground) 

and the engine quits, then there's something wrong with the *right* 

coil, not with the left one. Either the right coil itself is failing, or 

the right wire is shorting to ground. That could be due to damage to the 

wire or because the ignition switch is intermittent.



Rob



On 3/6/2012 2:44 PM, dwwilt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Arion Lightning S/N 132.  Stock Jabiru 3300 with hydraulic lifters.



 This morning I was going to go fly when during run up, as I was taking the switch from left to both, the engine "burped".  I'll call it a burp, but it really wan in process of shutting down.  I checked left mag again and the engine quit, back to both and since the prop had not stopped, it came back up.  I checked several times and the left mag position was intermittent.  It would be ok and then it would shut down.



 After getting back to the hangar, I pulled the cowl and did not see anything unusual.  I checked the wire from the magneto to the distributor cap and it seemed to be on Ok, although looser than the right magneto wire.  I'll go see if my playing with the magneto wire did anything positive later this afternoon or tomorrow morning.



 My flying window had closed for the morning, so I came home and decided to send out this post.  Any ideas?  Could it be the ignition switch?



 Thanks for any ideas out there.



 --------

 Dennis





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=367840#367840

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dwwilt

Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 192

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:33 pm Post subject: While Checking the Magnetos, intermittent shutdown

Rob,

    

   When you check the left magneto, the switch shorts the right magneto to ground, shutting the right magneto off so you are running on the left magneto only.

    

   So, when I was trying to run on only the left magneto (right magneto off), the engine quit.  So, in my opinion, I have the possibility of these things going wrong:

    

   1. The p-lead on the left magneto is intermittently shorting to ground somewhere (not obvious, I inspected the wire from the coil to the ignition switch).

   2. The ignition switch has a malfunction that is intermittent. (I inspected the connections to the ignition switch and they are good.)

   3. The coil itself is intermittent.

   4. The ignition wire from the coil to the distributor cap is intermittent.

   5. The distributor cap and/or rotor has a problem.

    

   These are all of the things I can think of that can go wrong here.  It is a simple system.

 

 

     Have a wonderful day,

    

   Dennis

   N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)

 

 

 

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Dennis

pete(at)usjabiru.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: While Checking the Magnetos, intermittent shutdown

Based on our experience over the last 12 years I would look closely at the ignition switch.  The failure rate on the ACS switches is higher than it should be.  Disconnect the P Lead to the left mag and see what happens when you short out the right during mag check.  You’ll have to shut fuel off to stop engine, though, if the left mag is good after all.  

 

Pete

 

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis W. Wilt

Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 3:31 PM

To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: While Checking the Magnetos, intermittent shutdown



 

Rob,



 



When you check the left magneto, the switch shorts the right magneto to ground, shutting the right magneto off so you are running on the left magneto only.



 



So, when I was trying to run on only the left magneto (right magneto off), the engine quit.  So, in my opinion, I have the possibility of these things going wrong:



 



1. The p-lead on the left magneto is intermittently shorting to ground somewhere (not obvious, I inspected the wire from the coil to the ignition switch).



2. The ignition switch has a malfunction that is intermittent. (I inspected the connections to the ignition switch and they are good.)



3. The coil itself is intermittent.



4. The ignition wire from the coil to the distributor cap is intermittent.



5. The distributor cap and/or rotor has a problem.



 



These are all of the things I can think of that can go wrong here.  It is a simple system.



Have a wonderful day,



 



Dennis



N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)

 

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dwwilt

Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 192

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:46 pm Post subject: While Checking the Magnetos, intermittent shutdown

Thanks Pete, I was hoping someone had seen this problem and could just give an answer.  Have you ever seen a bad coil?

 

      

    

   Dennis

   N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)

 

 

 

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Dennis

dwwilt

Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 192

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: While Checking the Magnetos, intermittent shutdown

I never found the reason for the failure.  After checking everything out and ohming the system, the plane started fine and the mag check was fine.  Unnerving to me, because there has to be a reason for the problem.  I ordered a new switch and replaced it.  I opened up the old switch and did not find anything unusual.  However, with the Jabiru starter solenoid, the connections are not similar to those on other starter solenoids I am familiar with.  I have not found where the surge protection diode was installed originally and I believe it was not installed.  I did not do this part of the wiring on my plane.  So, my question is, how do you connect the surge protection diode?

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Dennis

dwwilt

Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 192

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:41 am Post subject: While Checking the Magnetos, intermittent shutdown

Pete, I know where the diode is supposed to go.  The issue is the difference in connectors on the starter relay vs the diode.  The Jabiru Starter Relay has a slide-on connector and the diode has a round bolt-on connector you would see on a Piper or Cessna starter relay.  I was wondering how other people made this connection.  The diode could be installed on the ignition switch (electrically this would be the same as on the relay) or the connector on the diode could be removed and the diode could be crimped onto the slide-on connector that matches the starter relay.

 

     Thanks,

    

   Dennis

   N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)

 

 

 

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Dennis

pete(at)usjabiru.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:00 am Post subject: While Checking the Magnetos, intermittent shutdown

We remove the round eyelet and install in the slide on connector with the wire from the starter.

 

Pete

 

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis W. Wilt

Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 8:41 AM

To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: While Checking the Magnetos, intermittent shutdown



 

Pete, I know where the diode is supposed to go.  The issue is the difference in connectors on the starter relay vs the diode.  The Jabiru Starter Relay has a slide-on connector and the diode has a round bolt-on connector you would see on a Piper or Cessna starter relay.  I was wondering how other people made this connection.  The diode could be installed on the ignition switch (electrically this would be the same as on the relay) or the connector on the diode could be removed and the diode could be crimped onto the slide-on connector that matches the starter relay.

Thanks,



 



Dennis



N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)

 

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dwwilt

Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 192

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:54 am Post subject: While Checking the Magnetos, intermittent shutdown

Barry, thanks much for your explanation.  Usually this kind of diode protects against a surge current or a spike that could damage components.  The protection here is similar, but different as you explained.  I really didn't think about the circuit too much when I wrote up my question.  I am an Electrical Engineer, but have not done any circuit analysis or design in many years.  Mostly, I do avionics systems work for a company that contracts with the government.  My real question was about the connectors that are a bit different on the Jabiru starter relay than those I am familiar with.  So, I am going to do what I expected and remove the circular connector that is on the diode and connect the diode and the ignition switch to the starter relay using a single slide on connector for the plus side of the diode and connect the negative side of the diode as delivered since that side used a curcular connector.

 

     Have a wonderful day,

    

   Dennis

   N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)

 

 

 

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Dennis

dwwilt

Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 192

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: Re: While Checking the Magnetos, intermittent shutdown

Just an update.  I replaced the ACS ignition switch and have not had a problem since.  I opened up the original switch and could not see anything wrong with it.  They are very simple devices.

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