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SV: Fuel Sender

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sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:44 am Post subject: SV: Fuel Sender

Carl,

 

I installed the Princeton (? – memory fades……) capacitive sender sold by Europa when I purchased my kit in 2001, connected to Grand Rapids EIS.  Not happy with the sender, I believe it is very sensitive to type of fuel (mogas type and producer, 100LL) and possibly other factors.

 

Have you considered the FP-5 Fuel Totalizer from Electronics International?  http://www.buy-ei.com/Pages/FP-5/FP-5_Overview.html

 

I am VERY happy with this instrument.  Very accurate (no calibration has been required), easy to install, easy to use, and has the added value over a level measurement system that you get read-out of actual fuel flow (uses a sender also in the return line) in addition to quantity remaining.  Great for optimizing cruise speed. Also other nice features.    The only thing you have to remember is to update the fuel quantity on board after refueling (you are reminded of this every time you switch on the avionics power).

 

Regards,

Svein

LN-SKJ 	  Quote: 	
		   	


  [quote][b]

carlmeek(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:53 am Post subject: SV: Fuel Sender

Hi Svein,

I'm really not interested in another instrument – the Dynon EMS-D10A does all of that plus more – I get live fuel flow, fuel level, litres used, litres remaining.  The only problem with my current setup is the float sender – it only seems to reliably read between 20litres and 48 litres, anything more or less than that doesn't register.  Also, it really bounces around in certain situations like a prolonged climb where it under-reads terribly.

The Dynon totals up the fuel used, but it's not infallible – for example if I put a jerry can into the system and forget to update the level count, or if the fuel flow meter goes wrong.  I'm looking for redundancy so I can cross check litres used with the litres left in the tank.  I like to have the sight tube (unreliable below about 30 litres), plus the totaliser, plus a level readout.

This became important just recently when we had a small "fuel crisis" panic buying in the UK.  All the mogas ran out, and my only option was to fly to a field with avgas.  Fuel was low, so I emptied a few litres from various jerry cans, and I had to unscrew the sender plate and look into the tank to check I had enough to safely take off!

A friend runs a capacitance gauge from the link I posted earlier and believes it to be very accurate indeed.  For me, it will serve as one of three ways to check fuel level.

Regards,

-Carl.

From:  Sidsel & Svein Johnsen <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no (sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no)>

Reply-To:  <europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)>

Date:  Monday, 23 April 2012 09:42

To:  <europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)>

Subject:  SV: Fuel Sender



  <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->

Carl,

 

I installed the Princeton (? – memory fades……) capacitive sender sold by Europa when I purchased my kit in 2001, connected to Grand Rapids EIS.  Not happy with the sender, I believe it is very sensitive to type of fuel (mogas type and producer, 100LL) and possibly other factors.

 

Have you considered the FP-5 Fuel Totalizer from Electronics International?  http://www.buy-ei.com/Pages/FP-5/FP-5_Overview.html

 

I am VERY happy with this instrument.  Very accurate (no calibration has been required), easy to install, easy to use, and has the added value over a level measurement system that you get read-out of actual fuel flow (uses a sender also in the return line) in addition to quantity remaining.  Great for optimizing cruise speed. Also other nice features.    The only thing you have to remember is to update the fuel quantity on board after refueling (you are reminded of this every time you switch on the avionics power).

 

Regards,

Svein

LN-SKJ 	  Quote: 	
		   



//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

com

ronics.com/contribution



	


    [quote][b]

Richard Wheelwright

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:16 am Post subject: SV: Fuel Sender

Has any one fitted the MGL Infinity FF1 Gauge to their sender? Looks like a good option.

 

  

 =============================================



 Richard Wheelwright

====================

 



    

   Hi Svein,

 



 I'm really not interested in another instrument â€“ the Dynon EMS-D10A does all of that plus more â€“ I get live fuel flow, fuel level, litres used, litres remaining.  The only problem with my current setup is the float sender â€“ it only seems to reliably read between 20litres and 48 litres, anything more or less than that doesn't register.  Also, it really bounces around in certain situations like a prolonged climb where it under-reads terribly.

 



 The Dynon totals up the fuel used, but it's not infallible â€“ for example if I put a jerry can into the system and forget to update the level count, or if the fuel flow meter goes wrong.  I'm looking for redundancy so I can cross check litres used with the litres left in the tank.  I like to have the sight tube (unreliable below about 30 litres), plus the totaliser, plus a level readout.

 



 This became important just recently when we had a small "fuel crisis" panic buying in the UK.  All the mogas ran out, and my only option was to fly to a field with avgas.  Fuel was low, so I emptied a few litres from various jerry cans, and I had to unscrew the sender plate and look into the tank to check I had enough to safely take off!

 



 A friend runs a capacitance gauge from the link I posted earlier and believes it to be very accurate indeed.  For me, it will serve as one of three ways to check fuel level.

 



 Regards,

 -Carl.

 



 From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no (sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no)>

Reply-To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)>

Date: Monday, 23 April 2012 09:42

To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)>

Subject: SV: Fuel Sender



 



      Carl,

  

 I installed the Princeton (? â€“ memory fadesâ€¦â€¦) capacitive sender sold by Europa when I purchased my kit in 2001, connected to Grand Rapids EIS.  Not happy with the sender, I believe it is very sensitive to type of fuel (mogas type and producer, 100LL) and possibly other factors.

  

 Have you considered the FP-5 Fuel Totalizer from Electronics International?  http://www.buy-ei.com/Pages/FP-5/FP-5_Overview.html

  

 I am VERY happy with this instrument.  Very accurate (no calibration has been required), easy to install, easy to use, and has the added value over a level measurement system that you get read-out of actual fuel flow (uses a sender also in the return line) in addition to quantity remaining.  Great for optimizing cruise speed. Also other nice features.    The only thing you have to remember is to update the fuel quantity on board after refueling (you are reminded of this every time you switch on the avionics power).

  

 Regards,

 Svein

 LN-SKJ

 	  Quote: 	
		    



//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

com

ronics.com/contribution



	


[quote]



ark>Un/Subscription,

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llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



[b]

_________________
Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:53 am Post subject: Re: SV: Fuel Sender

Carl,



We also fitted the Princeton probe initially but found that the differences between 100LL and mogas were a problem.  We also found that amount of ethanol or any moisture in the gas changed the readings significantly.



We ended up using a pressure transducer to measure fuel qty.  Copied that portion of Tony K's fuel quantity solution and it has worked well for several years.  You should be able to find his information here on the forum.



Jim & Heather

rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:18 am Post subject: SV: Fuel Sender

On 23 Apr 2012, at 10:15, Richard Wheelwright wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Has any one fitted the MGL Infinity FF1 Gauge to their sender


	


Richard - I have bought a FF1 but it is not yet installed. I'm planning to use it with a sensor which effectively weighs the fuel, similar to the one promoted by Tony unpronounceable a few years back. I also have a Floscan flow sensor for it. Going to try and get away with just one flow sensor as I ave a 912S.



Tim Houlihan uses a similar setup. It had some problems that we think were down to the vent system affecting the apparent head of fuel above the sensor, but I think that is sorted out now.



in friendship



Rowland



| Rowland Carson          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>            http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk

| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson      Facebook: Rowland Carson

| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson

frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:58 am Post subject: SV: Fuel Sender

On 04/23/2012 11:15 AM, Richard Wheelwright wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Has any one fitted the MGL Infinity FF1 Gauge to their sender? Looks

 like a good option.


	


I have it and I'm satisfied with it. I use two float type senders, one

swiveling into the main tank and the other in the reserve. I have set up

the two systems as two independant tanks, and of course both are

consumed equally, until the bottom of the "saddle" is reached. This

gives insight when to switch from main to reserve, and also offers some

redundancy during the time the tank level is above the saddle. If both

tanks indicate the same level then all should be well. If one float

sticks or sinks the levels disagree and invite the pilot to investigate.



The fuel flow part also works perfectly. I have a 914 so I have two flow

senders, the FF1 is able to substract the return flow from the total

fuel flow so it gives a very accurate value. What's more: connected to

the ships NMEA-buss it calculates the time and distance remaining on the

fuel contents.



frans

Richard Wheelwright

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:07 pm Post subject: SV: Fuel Sender

Frans,

     Thank you, Roland has kindly e-mailed me the instructions and other info on the FF1.

  

 You have raised another Question I was going to ask the list, 

  

          To create a NMEA-buss is it simply to pick up the feed from the GPS to feed the NMEA-buss and connect the other devices too it? in other words will 1 NMEA feed other devices from a single feed?

  

 ====================

 Richard Wheelwright

====================

 



    

From: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Monday, 23 April 2012, 15:51

Subject: Re: SV: Fuel Sender

--> Europa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl (frans(at)privatepilots.nl)>



On 04/23/2012 11:15 AM, Richard Wheelwright wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Has any one fitted the MGL Infinity FF1 Gauge to their sender? Looks

 like a good option.


	


I have it and I'm satisfied with it. I use two float type senders, one

swiveling into the main tank and the other in the reserve. I have set up

the two systems as two independant tanks, and of course both are

consumed equally, until the bottom of the "saddle" is reached. This

gives insight when to switch from main to reserve, and also offers some

redundancy during the time the tank level is above the saddle. If both

tanks indicate the same level then all should be well. If one float

sticks or sinks the levels disagree and invite the pilot to investigate.



The fuel flow part  also works perfectly. I have a 914 so I have two flow

senders, the FF1 is able to substract the return flow from the total

fuel flow so it gives a very accurate value. What's more: connected to

the ships NMEA-buss it calculates the time and distance remaining on the

fuel contt; http://forums.matronics.cp;                     -M  --> 



 [quote][b]

_________________
Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013

frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:17 am Post subject: SV: Fuel Sender

On 04/24/2012 09:05 AM, Richard Wheelwright wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		            To create a NMEA-buss is it simply to pick up the feed from the

 GPS to feed the NMEA-buss and connect the other devices too it? in other

 words will 1 NMEA feed other devices from a single feed?


	


You can connect multiple items to one NMEA output. Of course there is

some limit, but it depends on the load each single item poses on the bus.

On my ship I have the NMEA output of the GPS linked to the autopilot,

the mode-S transponder (now I can chase the airliners away from my

ship), and the fuel flow computer so it can use the actual GS to

calculate the remaining maximum possible distance with the present

amount of fuel remaining by the current consumption.



Frans

Duncan McFadyean

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 222

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: SV: Fuel Sender

Garmin  products typically allow up to 3 "listeners" connected to the NMEA output. It  tells you this in the data for their products.

  

 Duncan  McF.

 [quote]   

   --

Richard Wheelwright

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:45 pm Post subject: SV: Fuel Sender

Frans,  Thank you for the info. I will dive into the white Rats Nest and see if I can sort it out.

 

  

 =============================================



 Richard Wheelwright

====================

 



    

From: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Tuesday, 24 April 2012, 10:10

Subject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Fuel Sender

--> Europa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl (frans(at)privatepilots.nl)>



On 04/24/2012 09:05 AM, Richard Wheelwright wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		             To create a NMEA-buss is it simply to pick up the feed from the

 GPS to feed the NMEA-buss and connect the other devices too it? in other

 words will 1 NMEA feed other devices from a single feed?


	


You can connect multiple items to one NMEA output. Of course there is

some limit, but it depends on the load each single item poses on the bus.

On my ship I have the NMEA output of the GPS linked to the autopilot,

the mode-S transponder (now I can chase the airliners away from my

ship), and the fuel flow computer so it can use the actual GS to

calculate the remaining maximum possible distance with the present

amount of fuel remaining b= the many List utilities such as List > http://www.======================

 [quote][b]

_________________
Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013

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