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gordona23(at)earthlink.ne
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 Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:38 am Post subject: type certified engines |
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I've read that Rotax offers a "certified" version of their 912 engines.
It seems that the main difference is a documented audit trail of every
part used to build the engine. Otherwise, it is the exact same engine
... no performance or reliability improvements. If I recall correctly,
the "certification" adds $7000 to the cost of the engine. The military
is probably the only customer.
So, until we start seeing Jabiru engines being used in military drones,
I wouldn't expect to see a "certified" version.
On 4/24/12 3:00 AM, JabiruEngine-List Digest Server wrote:
| Quote: | *
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----------------------------------------------------------
JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 04/23/12: 8
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:17 AM - Jabiru 3300 "certification" (Clive)
2. 12:38 AM - Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification" (FLYaDIVE)
3. 02:25 AM - Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification" (Pat Ladd)
4. 02:44 AM - Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification" (James, Clive R)
5. 06:04 AM - Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification" (Pat Ladd)
6. 02:44 PM - Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification" (JohnDRead(at)aol.com)
7. 02:45 PM - Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification" (JohnDRead(at)aol.com)
8. 03:30 PM - Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification" (FLYaDIVE)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 12:17:07 AM PST US
From: Clive<zcrj90(at)yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Jabiru 3300 "certification"
The only people that need certifying are mugs like us that bought the ruddy
thing......=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: AZFlyer<m
illrML(at)aol.com>=0ATo: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 23 A
pril 2012, 0:14=0ASubject: 3300 "type-certification engi
<millrML(at)AOL.com>=0A=0AList,=0A=0ARecently I was asked if the 3300 engine p
rop combination was "type-certified"...- and had no idea what that meant.
- To be eligible for 25 hour flight test (vs 40 hour).=0A=0AIf the 3300 i
s type-certified where do I find documentation supporting that?=0A=0AThanks
,=0AMike=0A=0A--------=0AMike Miller (at) millrml(at)aol.com=0A601 XL-B, 3300, Dy
non=0A=0ARemember,-"the second mouse gets the cheese"!=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/view
-========================
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 12:38:07 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification"
From: FLYaDIVE<flyadive(at)gmail.com>
Right you are Clive.
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 3:16 AM, Clive<zcrj90(at)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> The only people that need certifying are mugs like us that bought the
> ruddy thing......
>
> *From:* AZFlyer<millrML(at)aol.com>
> *To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, 23 April 2012, 0:14
> *Subject:* 3300 "type-certification engine and prop
> combo"
> List,
>
> Recently I was asked if the 3300 engine prop combination was
> "type-certified"... and had no idea what that meant. To be eligible for
> 25 hour flight test (vs 40 hour).
>
> If the 3300 is type-certified where do I find documentation supporting
> that?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> --------
> Mike Miller (at) millrml(at)aol.com
> 601 XL-B, 3300, Dynon
>
> Remember,"the second mouse gets the cheese"!
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=371528#371528
> **http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?J - MATRONICS WEB
> FORUMS -**;&nb href="
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution" ======
> *
>
> *
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 02:25:31 AM PST US
From: "Pat Ladd"<pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification"
Recently I was asked if the 3300 engine prop combination was
"type-certified"... and had no idea what that meant.>>
Hi,
in the UK it is quite usual to have a type certified combination of
engine and prop. This would be the pairing which was certified as safe
and complying with noise rules.
Changing say from a 2 blade to a 3 blade prop which was not type
approved might involve running the noise testing again. Once that had
been done in one instance of course and approved it is then OK for
anyone else who wishes to do the same thing.
Pat
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 02:44:54 AM PST US
Subject: RE: Jabiru 3300 "certification"
From: "James, Clive R"<clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
The work needed by a manufacturer to get certification is immense, also
given what we know about Jabiru engines they could never achieve it as
their record is dire.
We benefit from an uncertified world so we can use cheap uncertified
equipment, and we get what we pay for....
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat
Ladd
Sent: 23 April 2012 10:24
Subject: Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification"
Recently I was asked if the 3300 engine prop combination was
"type-certified"... and had no idea what that meant.>>
Hi,
in the UK it is quite usual to have a type certified combination of
engine and prop. This would be the pairing which was certified as safe
and complying with noise rules.
Changing say from a 2 blade to a 3 blade prop which was not type
approved might involve running the noise testing again. Once that had
been done in one instance of course and approved it is then OK for
anyone else who wishes to do the same thing.
Pat
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 06:04:08 AM PST US
From: "Pat Ladd"<pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification"
We benefit from an uncertified world so we can use cheap uncertified
equipment, and we get what we pay for..>>
You certainly can if you are under the American Experimental banner and
I envy that.. On the other hand I dont think that anyone in the UK would
think of setting fire to their machine rather than sell it and accept
the liability. Not yet anyway
Pat
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 02:44:02 PM PST US
From: JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification"
It may be worth emailing JabiruUSA to see if the prop/engine combination
you wish to use has been type certified on any of the Jabiru planes, if so I
think that would be OK for general use. It would be great to not have to
spend 40 hours test flying!
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
In a message dated 4/23/2012 3:25:53 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com writes:
Recently I was asked if the 3300 engine prop combination was
"type-certified"... and had no idea what that meant.>>
Hi,
in the UK it is quite usual to have a type certified combination of engine
and prop. This would be the pairing which was certified as safe and
complying with noise rules.
Changing say from a 2 blade to a 3 blade prop which was not type approved
might involve running the noise testing again. Once that had been done in
one instance of course and approved it is then OK for anyone else who wishes
to do the same thing.
Pat
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 02:45:52 PM PST US
From: JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification"
And your point is?? There are plenty of so called Type certified engines
that have very poor TBO times.
Regards, John
CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
Cell: 719-494-4567
Home: 303-648-3261
In a message dated 4/23/2012 3:45:02 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
clive.james(at)uk.bp.com writes:
The work needed by a manufacturer to get certification is immense, also
given what we know about Jabiru engines they could never achieve it as the
ir
record is dire.
We benefit from an uncertified world so we can use cheap uncertified
equipment, and we get what we pay for.
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Lad
d
Sent: 23 April 2012 10:24
Subject: Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification"
Recently I was asked if the 3300 engine prop combination was
"type-certified"... and had no idea what that meant.>>
Hi,
in the UK it is quite usual to have a type certified combination of engine
and prop. This would be the pairing which was certified as safe and
complying with noise rules.
Changing say from a 2 blade to a 3 blade prop which was not type approved
might involve running the noise testing again. Once that had been done in
one instance of course and approved it is then OK for anyone else who wish
es
to do the same thing.
Pat
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 03:30:57 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Jabiru 3300 "certification"
From: FLYaDIVE<flyadive(at)gmail.com>
Ya know guys, I just don't understand it. 
Ya built the plane to fly. So what is the difference if you fly 25 hrs or
40 hrs to get it signed off? Tong fully extended at DAR.
Only problem I would have with it is distance allowed... Maybe you could
request a larger area to fly in, or start with 25 Hrs and a small area (if
that is the issue ) and have the DAR sign off on a larger area after you
reach 25 Hrs. But get the sign off right at the start.
Barry
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 5:43 PM,<JohnDRead(at)aol.com> wrote:
> **
> It may be worth emailing JabiruUSA to see if the prop/engine combination
> you wish to use has been type certified on any of the Jabiru planes, if so
> I think that would be OK for general use. It would be great to not have to
> spend 40 hours test flying!
> Regards, John
>
> CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300
>
> Cell: 719-494-4567
> Home: 303-648-3261
>
> In a message dated 4/23/2012 3:25:53 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com writes:
>
> Recently I was asked if the 3300 engine prop combination was
> "type-certified"... and had no idea what that meant.>>
>
> Hi,
> in the UK it is quite usual to have a type certified combination of engine
> and prop. This would be the pairing which was certified as safe and
> complying with noise rules.
> Changing say from a 2 blade to a 3 blade prop which was not type approved
> might involve running the noise testing again. Once that had been done in
> one instance of course and approved it is then OK for anyone else who
> wishes to do the same thing.
>
> Pat
>
> *
>
> ist href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Lists.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:02 am Post subject: Re: type certified engines |
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|
The type certificated Rotax 912 engines are built on the same assembly line as the UL engines but there are some very minor differences, other than the paper-trail.
The type certificated 912 F3 engine in the Diamond Katana I've been maintaining for several years has two springs on the throttle arm of the carbs instead of just one. It also has aircraft aluminum fuel tubing from the distribution block to the two carbs instead of of flexible hose. The return line to the tank also has braided SS tubing but this last bit is an airframe specific item that may be peculiar to the Diamond. The other fuel line from the firewall to the mechanical pump is regular flexible hose as is the hose from the mechanical pump to the distribution block. The coolant hoses appear to be identical but the oil hoses, instead of being standard push-on type are made-up hoses with special end fittings, also Diamond specific. The Katana also has an airframe specific air shroud over the top of the cylinders which ducts air directly from the cowl inlet to the cylinders.
Although the vast majority of the parts are identical, when I order replacement parts I must specify Certificated to get the required paperwork that keeps the Diamond legal. Of course Lockwood gets a higher price for these paper-trail parts.
http://sites.google.com/site/riddletr/a&pmechanix
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:23 am Post subject: Re: type certified engines |
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There are many companies around the world and here in the US that use the 912S certified engine.
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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