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Low Fuel Sensor Location
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40950(at)rv10.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:01 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

Looking for information regarding where to locate low fuel sensor in inboard tank ribs related to vertical height vs location. I am building tanks, would like to drill and install before final assembly, have calculated a location but would like to verify my results. Looking for fuel measurements once installed. I have AE Fuel Guardian sensors.



Any related data would be appreciated.



Tom Koelzer

40950 Wings

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

Attached is a photo that Scott Schmidt provided me several years ago.  I put

mine in the same location.



Bob

--

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_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

40950(at)rv10.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

Thanks Bob,



I'm planning to put my sensor in the same position fore and aft but probably an inch or so lower to get warning at about 4 1/2 gal useable per my calculations. Do you know what fuel level corresponds to the sensor location in the picture you attached?



Tom

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 1:22 am Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

My memory seems to recall about five gallons, but I'm sure that Scott can share his results since he's been flying for awhile.  I'm about 90 days away from putting fuel in the tanks. 



Bob



Sent from my iPad



On May 4, 2012, at 11:01 PM, Tom Koelzer <40950(at)rv10.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Thanks Bob,

 

 I'm planning to put my sensor in the same position fore and aft but probably an inch or so lower to get warning at about 4 1/2 gal useable per my calculations. Do you know what fuel level corresponds to the sensor location in the picture you attached?

 

 Tom

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 10:29 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

Bob,



do you know, what amount of fuel is left when the warning comes on?



Many thanks



Werner



On 05.05.2012 02:46, Bob Leffler wrote:

[quote] Attached is a photo that Scott Schmidt provided me several years ago.  I put

 mine in the same location.



 Bob

 --

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:36 am Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

 	  Quote: 	
		  From what I recall in conversations with Scott, it should be about 5 gallons.   I made those mods about three years ago, so the memory is a little fuzzy.   I will test in July when I first put fuel in the tanks.


	


Bob



Sent from my iPad



On May 7, 2012, at 2:28 AM, Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Bob,

 

 do you know, what amount of fuel is left when the warning comes on?

 

 Many thanks

 

 Werner

 

 On 05.05.2012 02:46, Bob Leffler wrote:

> Attached is a photo that Scott Schmidt provided me several years ago.  I put

> mine in the same location.

> 

> Bob

> 

> 

> --

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

40950(at)rv10.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:11 am Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

Werner, 



I sent a PM to Scott Schmidt asking him same question. I'll post once I 

find out. 



Tom 



Do not archive 



Werner Schneider writes: 



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Bob, 

 

 do you know, what amount of fuel is left when the warning comes on? 

 

 Many thanks 

 

 Werner

jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:30 am Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

I can confirm. I used Scott's measurements, and i got the optical 

warning at 5 gallons in level flight the other day. However, with 

turbulence, it can warn with as high as 10 gallons.

Jae

On 5/7/2012 12:10 PM, Tom Koelzer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Werner,

 I sent a PM to Scott Schmidt asking him same question. I'll post once 

 I find out.

 Tom

 Do not archive

 Werner Schneider writes:

> 

> Bob,

> do you know, what amount of fuel is left when the warning comes on?

> Many thanks

> Werner 

-- 

#40533 RV-10

First flight 10/19/2011

Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

40950(at)rv10.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

Have you ever verified by fuel measurement on the ground or just indication 

on the fuel gauge in flight? 



Tom 



Jae Chang writes: 



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

  I can confirm. I used Scott's measurements, and i got the optical warning 

 at 5 gallons in level flight the other day. However, with turbulence, it 

 can warn with as high as 10 gallons. 

 

 Jae

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

I did my own measurements and used a different point ....but I could not find it in my documentation....I will keep looking and let you know if I find it.  Mine warns at about 3 gallons, smooth air, level flight.  At 6 gallons in turbulence and approach to landing with a little bit of rudder work.



I am happy with mine.  I get a 10 gallon alarm from the efis based on fuel burn, a 5 gallon alarm on each tank from the float sensor, and a 3 gallon or more alarm from the optical......



I should never run out of gas......



I normally do not fly with both tanks less than 10 gallons....so it is unusual for me to get any of the alarms.



Rene' Felker

N423CF

801-721-6080



--

jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

No, i have never verified the optical warning on the ground. It would 

be a somewhat moot point for me since the optical sensor was installed 

at least 4 years prior to my wings installed. there was no way i was 

going to change its location now. thus, yes, 5 gals is what was 

indicated form the float senders only, which were calibrated every 2 

gallons.

Jae

On 5/7/2012 1:06 PM, Tom Koelzer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Have you ever verified by fuel measurement on the ground or just 

 indication on the fuel gauge in flight?

 Tom

 Jae Chang writes:

> 

>  I can confirm. I used Scott's measurements, and i got the optical 

> warning at 5 gallons in level flight the other day. However, with 

> turbulence, it can warn with as high as 10 gallons.

> Jae 

-- 

#40533 RV-10

First flight 10/19/2011

Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

40950(at)rv10.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:25 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

Thanks Jae, 



I'm trying to decide before I drill the hole and prior to final assembly. 



Tom 



Do not archive

michael(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

If you can find my entries in the http://www.mykitlog.com/msausen/ site, I actually put one of the wings in flight orientation and used a manometer to set the 5gal mark.  Haven't flown it yet though so YMMV.



Michael



--

40950(at)rv10.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

Bob,



Thanks! That is very close to the position I have chosen for which my calculations show 4.7 gal total or an estimate of 4.4 gal useable (sucking air). Jae reports his sensor on at 5 gal in level flight using the same Scott Schmidt location.

Tom



Begin forwarded message:



 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Bob Leffler <bob(at)thelefflers.com (bob(at)thelefflers.com)>

Subject: Fuel sensor

Date: May 7, 2012 4:43:50 PM CDT

To: Tom Koelzer <40950(at)rv10.net (40950(at)rv10.net)>



The bottom is on the right. This is a photo of my right wing. 



[img]cid:6802CC7F-F6B3-4F37-B899-C6BD726E952B[/img]

Sent from my iPhone

photo.jpeg

Description:

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264.85 KB

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3907 Time(s)

40950(at)rv10.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

Michael,



Looked at your the relevant page at:



http://tinyurl.com/msausen



There you stated you marked the tank for 2.5 gal (vs the 5gal) and the mark on your tank is consistent with my calculations. I had included the 3.5 deg dihedral but not the incidence but further calculations showed only a decrease in my figures by about one-half pint because of fuel being higher towards the back of the tank. And that looked pretty close to what you measured.



All this means is that I have more confidence my model calculations are consistent with results, at least at the 5 gal and 2.5 gal levels. But as others have stated, sensor indications vary, maybe even double for rough air or rudder inputs (I'm probably measuring with a micrometer and cutting with an axe). This was really only a cerebral exercise more than anything. 



Thanks to all who responded. I will provide analysis if interested.



Tom

40950



On May 7, 2012, at 6:39 PM, Michael Sausen wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 If you can find my entries in the http://www.mykitlog.com/msausen/ site, I actually put one of the wings in flight orientation and used a manometer to set the 5gal mark.  Haven't flown it yet though so YMMV.

 

 Michael

larkrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

Hey Michael

 

I see in your KIt Pro log, you stated dihedral was 3.5 degrees, and angle of incidence was 1.5 degrees plus.  Does that mean the spar is leaning 1.5 degrees at the top or bottom?  I guess since there is almost always some turbulence in flight, it probably doesn't matter.  Does this sound right to you?  I'm also going to install optical sensors.  Thx for your advise.

  

Rick

#40956

Southampton, Ont

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Michael Sausen <michael(at)sausen.net (michael(at)sausen.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Michael Sausen <michael(at)sausen.net (michael(at)sausen.net)>

  

 If you can find my entries in the http://www.mykitlog.com/msausen/ site, I actually put one of the wings in flight orientation and used a manometer to set the 5gal mark.  Haven't flown it yet though so YMMV.

  

 Michael

 

 --

rv10rob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

A bit off topic, I know, but I'm curious: what problem does having this low fuel sensor solve?

 

-Rob

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Rick Lark <larkrv10(at)gmail.com (larkrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]Hey Michael

 

I see in your KIt Pro log, you stated dihedral was 3.5 degrees, and angle of incidence was 1.5 degrees plus.  Does that mean the spar is leaning 1.5 degrees at the top or bottom?  I guess since there is almost always some turbulence in flight, it probably doesn't matter.  Does this sound right to you?  I'm also going to install optical sensors.  Thx for your advise.

   

Rick

#40956

Southampton, Ont

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Michael Sausen <michael(at)sausen.net (michael(at)sausen.net)> wrote:

  

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Michael Sausen <michael(at)sausen.net (michael(at)sausen.net)>

   

 If you can find my entries in the http://www.mykitlog.com/msausen/ site, I actually put one of the wings in flight orientation and used a manometer to set the 5gal mark.  Haven't flown it yet though so YMMV.

   

 Michael

 



 --

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 1:51 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

Being stupid and running out of gas…..that is after I ignore the two other warnings I would have received by then.  Would also be helpful in a fuel leak situation where the fuel flow and tank float sensors did not agree……the low fuel sensor would be the tie breaker….i.e. the fuel flow sensor (calculation) shows you have not used 25 gallons, but the mechanical sensor in the tank does and the low fuel optical sensors also says you are down to 5 gallons…..

 

Rene' Felker

N423CF

801-721-6080

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kochman

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 2:36 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Low Fuel Sensor Location



 

A bit off topic, I know, but I'm curious: what problem does having this low fuel sensor solve?



 



-Rob



On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Rick Lark <larkrv10(at)gmail.com (larkrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Hey Michael



 



I see in your KIt Pro log, you stated dihedral was 3.5 degrees, and angle of incidence was 1.5 degrees plus.  Does that mean the spar is leaning 1.5 degrees at the top or bottom?  I guess since there is almost always some turbulence in flight, it probably doesn't matter.  Does this sound right to you?  I'm also going to install optical sensors.  Thx for your advise.



 



Rick



#40956



Southampton, Ont



On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Michael Sausen <michael(at)sausen.net (michael(at)sausen.net)> wrote:

[quote]

--> RV10-List message posted by: Michael Sausen <michael(at)sausen.net (michael(at)sausen.net)>



If you can find my entries in the http://www.mykitlog.com/msausen/ site, I actually put one of the wings in flight orientation and used a manometer to set the 5gal mark.  Haven't flown it yet though so YMMV.



Michael

--

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:36 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

It just another idiot light to remind you before you run the tank dry.



Sent from my iPad



On May 9, 2012, at 4:35 PM, Rob Kochman <rv10rob(at)gmail.com (rv10rob(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



[quote]A bit off topic, I know, but I'm curious: what problem does having this low fuel sensor solve?

 

-Rob

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Rick Lark <larkrv10(at)gmail.com (larkrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]Hey Michael

 

I see in your KIt Pro log, you stated dihedral was 3.5 degrees, and angle of incidence was 1.5 degrees plus.  Does that mean the spar is leaning 1.5 degrees at the top or bottom?  I guess since there is almost always some turbulence in flight, it probably doesn't matter.  Does this sound right to you?  I'm also going to install optical sensors.  Thx for your advise.

   

Rick

#40956

Southampton, Ont

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Michael Sausen <michael(at)sausen.net (michael(at)sausen.net)> wrote:

  

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Michael Sausen <michael(at)sausen.net (michael(at)sausen.net)>

   

 If you can find my entries in the http://www.mykitlog.com/msausen/ site, I actually put one of the wings in flight orientation and used a manometer to set the 5gal mark.  Haven't flown it yet though so YMMV.

   

 Michael

 



 --

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

michael(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: Low Fuel Sensor Location

The reality is it's probably not going to matter much. I did go back and notice I set it at 2.5. The main reason being that the fuel levels are going to be a lot more sensitive as the tank empties. E wise of the dihedral. I didn't want it false alarming   a lot in turbulence or turns I possible. As bob said, it is really a last chance, pay attention dummy, type warning. 

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 On May 8, 2012, at 6:49 PM, "Rick Lark" <larkrv10(at)gmail.com (larkrv10(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 

 

 

 [quote]  Hey Michael

  

 I see in your KIt Pro log, you stated dihedral was 3.5 degrees, and angle of incidence was 1.5 degrees plus.  Does that mean the spar is leaning 1.5 degrees at the top or bottom?  I guess since there is almost always some turbulence in flight, it probably  doesn't matter.  Does this sound right to you?  I'm also going to install optical sensors.  Thx for your advise.

  

 Rick

 #40956

 Southampton, Ont

 

 

 On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:39 PM, Michael Sausen  <michael(at)sausen.net (michael(at)sausen.net)> wrote:

 [quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: Michael Sausen <michael(at)sausen.net (michael(at)sausen.net)>

 

 If you can find my entries in the  http://www.mykitlog.com/msausen/ site, I actually put one of the wings in flight orientation and used a manometer to set the 5gal mark.  Haven't flown it yet though so YMMV.

 

 Michael

  

 --

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