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naumuk(at)alltel.net
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 Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: One last welder question |
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All-
Thanks for all the truly helpful responses. By line item:
1. I've been welding both gas and electric since I was 13. Problem =
is, I've used the same equipment for the past 39 years and wanted to see =
what the big deal was with the new acronyms (MIG/TIG, etc.) From the =
responses, A. MIG is no big deal. B. TIG or oxy/acetylene is for =
aluminum.=20
2. Asked my 86 year old Uncle Joe what his recommendation was. He =
used to be a welder for Bucyrus-Erie and Greenville Steel Car during =
WWII. That's what drove my Memorial Day comments.=20
He had an iron-clad critical war-worker deferment. One day, he'd =
taken enough crap from a couple of ladies on the streetcar going to work =
for being a "Draft Dodger", got off at the next stop and enlisted in the =
USAAC. Flew 38 missions in B-17s with the 100th (Yes, that 100th) =
bombardment of the 8th Air Force, 28 combat and 10 hauling relief =
supplies. Bronze star, shot down 3 times. After 50 years won't even fly =
commercial because he said he's already used up 8 of his 9 lives. =20
His recommendation was "The thinner the stock you can do a good job =
of welding, the better the welder". From the responses, sounds like it's =
still solid advice.
3. My welded parts were purchased from Zenith, so I'm looking more =
at a rig for making fixtures, repairs, and the like. I can't see any =
better bang for the buck than the top of the line Lincoln stick welder =
for steel. The question is, is oxy-propane hot enough to weld aluminum?
By the way, we call them "Gas-hatchets" around here.
Bill
do not archive
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gboothe(at)calply.com
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: One last welder question |
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Bill,
God bless your uncle, and every other WWII veteran, including my own father
who lied and cheated his way into the Navy, at 17 years old!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion
Tail done, working on wings....
2. Asked my 86 year old Uncle Joe what his recommendation was. He =
used to be a welder for Bucyrus-Erie and Greenville Steel Car during =
WWII. That's what drove my Memorial Day comments.=20
He had an iron-clad critical war-worker deferment. One day, he'd =
taken enough crap from a couple of ladies on the streetcar going to work =
for being a "Draft Dodger", got off at the next stop and enlisted in the =
USAAC. Flew 38 missions in B-17s with the 100th (Yes, that 100th) =
Bill
do not archive
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cgalley(at)qcbc.org
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: One last welder question |
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Yes propane is actually too hot. Many use Hydrogen instead.
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larry(at)macsmachine.com
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject: One last welder question |
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Bill,
Aircraft welders dont exist today. Any serious welding is pre-certified
to specific jobs and the professional welder that does aircraft
welding in the universal sense is mostly an A & P or an amateur like
us. Theres some variability in exposure and training, but most of it is
self-taught. Only practice makes a good welder of you. The 6000-degree
Oxyacetylene flame is the only gas that will melt nearly all metals and
is the least expensive process for welding 4130 structural tubing. TIG
is better if you really need to have the best looking welds and total
control of the job. My welds never looked as good as professionally done
aluminum. Welding 5052 was initially rather difficult even though Id
read the books and my problems were mostly about contaminated argon flow
tips.
The professional Welding Engineer seldom has broad applied skills in
welding that we learn just during the plane-building process. So when
you put a 6000-degree flame to a job or the 125-amp TIG arc begins a
melt process, its generally up to you to learn how to stay in control
of it. Books are a nice start, but practice is the only way to get there.
Welding aluminum with Oxyacetylene was one of the most difficult things
I've had to learn and don't recommend it as it's compared to riding a
unicycle in the dark. It can be done, but at considerable effort. My
second fuel tank was done this way for a Tailwind/Cougar and I never got
comfortable with it. TIG is much like running a sewing machine in
comparison.
Dont let anyone diminish your ability to believe you can learn a new
process Bill, just because you dont have a PHD in Applied Welding
process. Its just not rocket science.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive
Bill Naumuk wrote:
| Quote: |
All-
The question is, is oxy-propane hot enough to weld aluminum?
By the way, we call them "Gas-hatchets" around here.
Bill
do not archive
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p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: One last welder question |
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| Quote: | Its just not rocket science.
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No . . . It's airplane science, but it also works for rockets.
Paul
XL wings
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naumuk(at)alltel.net
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 6:43 pm Post subject: One last welder question |
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Gary and all-
My uncle enlisted in the USAAC because of peer pressure; my father had
the choice of joining the Navy or going to Riker's Island. My uncle wound up
after the war as a postmaster, my father an engineer for Grumman. Go figure.
Everyone has an Uncle Joe. It took 40 years to get the story I just
related. PTSD started long before 'Nam.
Talk to the WWII vets before it's too late- chances are what you hear
will blow your preconceptions of Hollywood History to pieces. At this point
in time, the vets have no reason to hold anything back any longer.
Bill
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gboothe(at)calply.com
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: One last welder question |
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Best book I ever read on the subject (PTSD) - Flags of our Fathers - about
the six Marines who hoisted the famous flag over Iwo Jima.... 'nuff said!
Gary
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skyguynca(at)skyguynca.co
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: One last welder question |
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Very well put Larry. I dropped from the discussion after it was said "you
have to have a big oven or a oxy/acetalne torch to reheat your work", that
is a very very big mistatement that I did not want to argue with, but you
know I just couldn't resist. I will not argue with my words but with the
designer's Chris H, "all welding for the 601 series can be done with a
torch, mig or tig and it requires no heat treatment or reheating, that is
something the home builder should not have to do". The reheating of 4130
steel is not even done when the factory makes a motor mount for a certified
aircraft. The steel is not heated enough to loose its properties to a
critical point to where it needs to be relieved and normalized. Doing the
motor mount and landing gear legs for the HD and HDS can be welded and used,
you don't need a oven or a torch. Just a little bit of experience in the
repair of Helicopters and Airplanes (20+years) and the current fleet I take
care of includes a P-51, Stearman, Stagerwing, 2 Beech 99 airliners, 2
DeHavilland Super Otters and my customers airplanes of 4 Beech 65A90 King
Airs....and I do all the welding both aluminum and steel with the complete
blessing of my local Fisdo as long as I adhere to AC43 for my repairs.
David Mikesell
23597 N. Hwy 99
Acampo, CA 95220
209-609-8774
skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com
www.skyguynca.com
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skyguynca(at)skyguynca.co
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 9:06 pm Post subject: One last welder question |
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OOPS, forgot to qualify the welding statement.......IF you read back to the
construction of the airframes for all the tube & rag airplanes: Fairchild,
Piper, Aeronca and such you will see thousands of welded tube
airframes.......and they never heated one in a oven after welding......got
that from a guy on my airport who worked for piper welding cub airframes.
David Mikesell
23597 N. Hwy 99
Acampo, CA 95220
209-609-8774
skyguynca(at)skyguynca.com
www.skyguynca.com
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