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Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos
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Espada

Joined: 24 Mar 2012
Posts: 14
Location: South Texas

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

IMPORTANT NOTE:  Ensure magneto selector switches in both the front and rear cockpits remain on "0" until the propeller pull through procedure is complete, then SET THE MAGNETO IN THE REAR COCKPIT TO "1+2" POSITION before attempting to start the engine.



Following this procedure, I found on my first solo flight that I couldn't shut down the engine with the front (and of course only accessible) magnetos...   had to get a friend to climb up on the wing and switch the rear seat magnetos to "0."



Is there a rear seat "instructor screwing with the student's mind" switch that will affect this situation?



Thanks,



Alex

pa3arw(at)euronet.nl
Guest

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:09 am Post subject: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

Why didn't you use the fuel cut off valve and just wait till the engine

comes to a stop.....??



Hans

RA3326K Yak52

Op 20-05-12 15:38, Espada <Espada42(at)yahoo.com> schreef:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 IMPORTANT NOTE:  Ensure magneto selector switches in both the front and rear

 cockpits remain on "0" until the propeller pull through procedure is complete,

 then SET THE MAGNETO IN THE REAR COCKPIT TO "1+2" POSITION before attempting

 to start the engine.

 

 Following this procedure, I found on my first solo flight that I couldn't shut

 down the engine with the front (and of course only accessible) magnetos...

 had to get a friend to climb up on the wing and switch the rear seat magnetos

 to "0."

 

 Is there a rear seat "instructor screwing with the student's mind" switch that

 will affect this situation?

 

 Thanks,

 

 Alex

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373388#373388

byronmfox(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:29 am Post subject: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat? This will give the front seat magneto control.



Sent from my iPhone



On May 20, 2012, at 6:38 AM, "Espada" <Espada42(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 IMPORTANT NOTE:  Ensure magneto selector switches in both the front and rear cockpits remain on "0" until the propeller pull through procedure is complete, then SET THE MAGNETO IN THE REAR COCKPIT TO "1+2" POSITION before attempting to start the engine.

 

 Following this procedure, I found on my first solo flight that I couldn't shut down the engine with the front (and of course only accessible) magnetos...   had to get a friend to climb up on the wing and switch the rear seat magnetos to "0."

 

 Is there a rear seat "instructor screwing with the student's mind" switch that will affect this situation?

 

 Thanks,

 

 Alex

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373388#373388

czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:25 am Post subject: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

If the rear mag is at 0, it won't start. So normal procedure is to leave the rear on. Yours sounds like a wiring issue. I actually rewrite and removed the rear mag switch. 



Bill



On May 20, 2012, at 9:32 AM, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat? This will give the front seat magneto control.

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 On May 20, 2012, at 6:38 AM, "Espada" <Espada42(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 

> 

> 

> IMPORTANT NOTE:  Ensure magneto selector switches in both the front and rear cockpits remain on "0" until the propeller pull through procedure is complete, then SET THE MAGNETO IN THE REAR COCKPIT TO "1+2" POSITION before attempting to start the engine.

> 

> Following this procedure, I found on my first solo flight that I couldn't shut down the engine with the front (and of course only accessible) magnetos...   had to get a friend to climb up on the wing and switch the rear seat magnetos to "0."

> 

> Is there a rear seat "instructor screwing with the student's mind" switch that will affect this situation?

> 

> Thanks,

> 

> Alex

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373388#373388

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

Espada

Joined: 24 Mar 2012
Posts: 14
Location: South Texas

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

 	  czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne wrote: 	
		  If the rear mag is at 0, it won't start. So normal procedure is to leave the rear on. Yours sounds like a wiring issue. I actually rewrite and removed the rear mag switch. 



Bill



Thanks...   will investigate-



On May 20, 2012, at 9:32 AM, Byron Fox <byronmfox> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat? This will give the front seat magneto control.

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 On May 20, 2012, at 6:38 AM, "Espada" <Espada42> wrote:

 

> 

> 

> IMPORTANT NOTE:  Ensure magneto selector switches in both the front and rear cockpits remain on "0" until the propeller pull through procedure is complete, then SET THE MAGNETO IN THE REAR COCKPIT TO "1+2" POSITION before attempting to start the engine.

> 

> Following this procedure, I found on my first solo flight that I couldn't shut down the engine with the front (and of course only accessible) magnetos...   had to get a friend to climb up on the wing and switch the rear seat magnetos to "0."

> 

> Is there a rear seat "instructor screwing with the student's mind" switch that will affect this situation?

> 

> Thanks,

> 

> Alex

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373388#373388

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

Espada

Joined: 24 Mar 2012
Posts: 14
Location: South Texas

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

"Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat? This will give the front seat magneto control."



- byronmfox



Don't have a clue, Byron...   how does one do this ?   I'm not near the airport right now, so can't look for a switch so designated;   what's it called ( I'll feel pretty stupid if I find one marked "Ignition switch for front cockpit" tomorrow) ?



And thanks for the advice -

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

Assuming you have a CJ, look at the attached photo.  See the toggle 

switch just above the mag switch?  In the UP position, the mag switch in 

the front cockpit has control.  In the DOWN position the mag switch in 

the rear cockpit has control.   It should be left in the UP position.



Same is true for the Yak 52 except the 52's toggle switch is above the 

gear selector and has a metal 'guard' on both sides.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1

On 5/20/2012 3:00 PM, Espada wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 "Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat? This will give the front seat magneto control."



 - byronmfox



 Don't have a clue, Byron...   how does one do this ?   I'm not near the airport right now, so can't look for a switch so designated;   what's it called ( I'll feel pretty stupid if I find one marked "Ignition switch for front cockpit" tomorrow) ?



 And thanks for the advice -





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373427#373427

IMG_0108_(12).jpg

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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:21 pm Post subject: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

If it's a Yak 52, look at the attached photo.  Next to the gear selector 

at about the 4 o'clock position is a toggle switch with metal tabs on 

each side bent in over the toggle switch.  Bending the side tabs 

somewhat prevents accidental movement of the toggle switch.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1

On 5/20/2012 3:00 PM, Espada wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 "Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat? This will give the front seat magneto control."



 - byronmfox



 Don't have a clue, Byron...   how does one do this ?   I'm not near the airport right now, so can't look for a switch so designated;   what's it called ( I'll feel pretty stupid if I find one marked "Ignition switch for front cockpit" tomorrow) ?



 And thanks for the advice -





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373427#373427

YAK25.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

82.25 KB

Viewed:

14626 Time(s)

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

for the 52, I should have said next to the gear selector.  Not above it.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1

On 5/20/2012 3:13 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Assuming you have a CJ, look at the attached photo.  See the toggle 

 switch just above the mag switch?  In the UP position, the mag switch 

 in the front cockpit has control.  In the DOWN position the mag switch 

 in the rear cockpit has control.   It should be left in the UP position.



 Same is true for the Yak 52 except the 52's toggle switch is above the 

 gear selector and has a metal 'guard' on both sides.

 Dennis



 A. Dennis Savarese

 334-285-6263

 334-546-8182 (mobile)

 www.yak-52.com

 Skype - Yakguy1

 On 5/20/2012 3:00 PM, Espada wrote:

> 

>

> "Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front 

> seat? This will give the front seat magneto control."

>

> - byronmfox

>

> Don't have a clue, Byron...   how does one do this ?   I'm not near 

> the airport right now, so can't look for a switch so designated;   

> what's it called ( I'll feel pretty stupid if I find one marked 

> "Ignition switch for front cockpit" tomorrow) ?

>

> And thanks for the advice -

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373427#373427

>

N13472(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

Almost correct on the Cj the rear mag switch is always in control. i.e. if it is set to 0 

no spark The selector switch allows the front mag switch to be paralleled with the rear.

Tom Elliott

CJ-6A NX63727

777 Quartz Ave

PMB 7004

Sandy Valley NV

89019

Cell 702-595-2680

  



--

Espada

Joined: 24 Mar 2012
Posts: 14
Location: South Texas

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

Dennis and Byron, you guys are kickass...   absolutely correct.  I couldn't stand it and drove all the way back to the airport (hope I get a hangar closer to home one of these days) and checked out the Savarese photography.



Way down in the instructor position corner is what was shown on the photos - "zazhiganiye kabina 1 + 2", which of course means "ignition, cockpits 1 + 2," right ?



Thanks to all for the input - Matronics folks are the good guys.

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

Tom is correct.   The ignition control switch (NOT the ignition selector 

switch " Off - 1 - 2 - 1+2"), if original wiring is intact, works as 

follows:  UP - Ignition selector is live in both cockpits,  DOWN - Rear 

selector is live, front selector is dead.

During restoration I prefer to re-wire the "P" leads to the front switch 

only and remove all other wiring.  The front seat then has the only 

operating ignition selector.  However many prefer to retain the original 

system and in that case I placard the the rear cockpit control switch and 

witness wire it in the UP position and also witness wire the rear selector 

in the 1+2 position.  Witness wire is pure copper and is easily broken if 

necessary.  I also witness wire the rear gear and flap selectors in the 

neutral position.

If I can remember tomorrow I will take a photo of the control switch 

placards and post it.



Walt

--

Joe Enzminger

Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 26

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

I would advise against leaving the rear mag switch in the "on" position as a matter of procedure.  If the instructor switch is inadvertently flipped (as is likely the case here), you now have a hot prop.  Since we pull through our engines as a matter of procedure, and since the consequence of a mistake can be fatal, I would recommend safing both mag switches after shutdown.



The very first thing I do in my preflight procedure, before touching anything else, is to verify that both front and back mag switches are off.  The last thing I do before securing the airplane is to make sure both mag switches are off.  It may sound like overkill, but the design of our airplanes makes very easy to inadvertently be in a hot mag situation.



Joe Enzminger

jackpot

Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:14 pm Post subject: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

Gentlemen.  Some time back I suspected my front mag switch had maybe outlived it time in use.  I was correct. It would shut down the engine but with a bit of wiggling at times it would become ungrounded. In that condition the mags are hot. Next time you pull the prop thru it could be a nasty experience. Removed the front mag switch and order a new one from Doug S.  Old switch was worn and felt just a bit loose  and with an ohm meter on it the grounding reliability was in question. New switch much tighter feeling.  Suggest you all consider the same action.  Or at least check the grounding of the switch with an analog ohm meter, much easier to see intermittent grounding with that type of meter. Needle wiggling.  



Gary Gabbard

N22YK



Sent from my iPhone



On May 20, 2012, at 18:37, "Walter Lannon" <wlannon(at)shaw.ca> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Tom is correct.   The ignition control switch (NOT the ignition selector switch " Off - 1 - 2 - 1+2"), if original wiring is intact, works as follows:  UP - Ignition selector is live in both cockpits,  DOWN - Rear selector is live, front selector is dead.

 During restoration I prefer to re-wire the "P" leads to the front switch only and remove all other wiring.  The front seat then has the only operating ignition selector.  However many prefer to retain the original system and in that case I placard the the rear cockpit control switch and witness wire it in the UP position and also witness wire the rear selector in the 1+2 position.  Witness wire is pure copper and is easily broken if necessary.  I also witness wire the rear gear and flap selectors in the neutral position.

 If I can remember tomorrow I will take a photo of the control switch placards and post it.

 

 Walt

 

 

 --

Espada

Joined: 24 Mar 2012
Posts: 14
Location: South Texas

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

 	  Joe Enzminger wrote: 	
		  I would advise against leaving the rear mag switch in the "on" position as a matter of procedure.  If the instructor switch is inadvertently flipped (as is likely the case here), you now have a hot prop.  Since we pull through our engines as a matter of procedure, and since the consequence of a mistake can be fatal, I would recommend safing both mag switches after shutdown.



The very first thing I do in my preflight procedure, before touching anything else, is to verify that both front and back mag switches are off.  The last thing I do before securing the airplane is to make sure both mag switches are off.  It may sound like overkill, but the design of our airplanes makes very easy to inadvertently be in a hot mag situation.



Joe Enzminger 	




You bet.



But I inadvertently confused this thread because I dialed in "Yak 52," and apparently the CJ6 is lumped into it.  Hence the various responses.



I'll be more specific next time.  Thanks to all for the support.   Glad I didn't buy a screwup-prone hangar queen !

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

Good point Joe.

That is why the control switch is wired to front and rear.  Someone would 

have to consciously break the wire to do that but you are right, it would be 

better to turn off both front and rear switches.  Best though is to 

eliminate the rear cockpit control entirely.



Walt



--

Espada

Joined: 24 Mar 2012
Posts: 14
Location: South Texas

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

Phase Two;  Magneto Mystery

After preflight, 12 blades, &c., kept rear magneto switch on "0" with the rear mag  selector on "Cabin 1," and then went through two complete in-plane air supplies trying to start the engine - I seldom have needed more than two or three attempts to get rolling - engine never caught.



Pumped throttle, didn't pump throttle, tried different throttle positions, held starter button three or so seconds before switching mags on, and then held starter button in a good five more seconds after that to get the shower of sparks good and showery. but no fire, ever.



Maybe the rear mag switch needs to be on "1+2" to start, but will, with the "cabin 1" switch activated, allow the engine to kill once the front mags are switched to "0?"



Maybe a chainsaw to amputate rear cockpit from front ?

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

Yes, the rear mag switch must be in the 1+2 position to start from the 

front cockpit.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1

On 5/21/2012 6:37 PM, Espada wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Phase Two;  Magneto Mystery

 After preflight, 12 blades,&c., kept rear magneto switch on "0" with the rear mag  selector on "Cabin 1," and then went through two complete in-plane air supplies trying to start the engine - I seldom have needed more than two or three attempts to get rolling - engine never caught.



 Pumped throttle, didn't pump throttle, tried different throttle positions, held starter button three or so seconds before switching mags on, and then held starter button in a good five more seconds after that to get the shower of sparks good and showery. but no fire, ever.



 Maybe the rear mag switch needs to be on "1+2" to start, but will, with the "cabin 1" switch activated, allow the engine to kill once the front mags are switched to "0?"



 Maybe a chainsaw to amputate rear cockpit from front ?





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373520#373520

Espada

Joined: 24 Mar 2012
Posts: 14
Location: South Texas

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

 	  dsavarese0812(at)bellsout wrote: 	
		  Yes, the rear mag switch must be in the 1+2 position to start from the 

front cockpit.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1

	
[/quote]



Thank you !   You salvaged my afternoon !

f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos

Espada,



     Please, I'm not being a smart alec here....but it sounds to me like you need to get someone who knows something about the airplane to do a real checkout for you.  This airplane is quite a simple one, but you need to know more than a little bit about it. There are quite a number of very savvy systems guys around.  You really do need to find such a person...and spend a bunch of time with him (or her).



     If you can arrange that, it should make you a much happier pilot AND you have a much higher chance of keeping your body and your airplane in an undamaged state.



Good luck,



Roger Baker________________________________________________________________

On May 21, 2012, at 4:37 PM, Espada wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Phase Two;  Magneto Mystery

 After preflight, 12 blades, &c., kept rear magneto switch on "0" with the rear mag  selector on "Cabin 1," and then went through two complete in-plane air supplies trying to start the engine - I seldom have needed more than two or three attempts to get rolling - engine never caught.

 

 Pumped throttle, didn't pump throttle, tried different throttle positions, held starter button three or so seconds before switching mags on, and then held starter button in a good five more seconds after that to get the shower of sparks good and showery. but no fire, ever.

 

 Maybe the rear mag switch needs to be on "1+2" to start, but will, with the "cabin 1" switch activated, allow the engine to kill once the front mags are switched to "0?"

 

 Maybe a chainsaw to amputate rear cockpit from front ?

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373520#373520

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