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Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

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sean(at)stephensville.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:43 am Post subject: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

Assembling the brakes on the mains the other day and I noticed that the 

two bolts that came with the brake assemblies which attach the back 

plate were not drilled head bolts.  Every plane I've seen has these two 

bolts safety-wired.



Did others get non-drilled head bolts with their brake assemblies, or is 

it just me?



I believe that those two bolts are AN4-20?  Is that what others replaced 

them with for safety wiring?



-Sean #40303 (Overhead Console)

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

They are not drilled head bolts. The DAR noticed this during our AW inspection and asked about it. We looked in the plans and found that they do not call for drilled heads. He was surprised, but OK with it since it was per plans. I decided to go ahead and install drilled head bolts and safety wire for peace of mind.

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

Having drilled head bolts there is a belt and suspenders approach. In 

most Cleveland brake calipers the bolts go into self locking threads and 

need no additional retention. The Cessna 170/172 Cleveland retrofit kits 

don't have drilled bolts either...flew with them for 20+ years with no 

problems.



On 6/28/2012 6:42 AM, Sean Stephens wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Assembling the brakes on the mains the other day and I noticed that 

 the two bolts that came with the brake assemblies which attach the 

 back plate were not drilled head bolts.  Every plane I've seen has 

 these two bolts safety-wired.



 Did others get non-drilled head bolts with their brake assemblies, or 

 is it just me?



 I believe that those two bolts are AN4-20?  Is that what others 

 replaced them with for safety wiring?



 -Sean #40303 (Overhead Console)






	




-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:17 am Post subject: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

Note that it is Cleveland that supplies the brakes without drilled head bolts. I don't recall which variety of self locking they use, but the calipers definitely have self locking on those bolts. You cannot back a bolt out 1/2 turn and then hand turn bolt as you could if they were ordinary threads.

 

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 6:56 AM, dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com) <dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com)" <dmaib(at)me.com (dmaib(at)me.com)>

 

 They are not drilled head bolts. The DAR noticed this during our AW inspection and asked about it. We looked in the plans and found that they do not call for drilled heads. He was surprised, but OK with it since it was per plans. I decided to go ahead and install drilled head bolts and safety wire for peace of mind.

  

 --------

 David Maib

 RV-10 #40559

 Transition Trainer

 New Smyrna Beach, FL

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376775#376775

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 [b]

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:33 am Post subject: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

Another area that could be addressed is that Cleveland uses nylock nuts to secure the guide pins.Â  I've seen the plastic melted away after the brakes get hot.Â  That's a good place for a metal nut.Â  Not that there's a huge chance of the guide pins falling out but it couldn't hurt.

  Dave Saylor

831-750-0284 CL

 



On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:

[quote]  --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

 

 Having drilled head bolts there is a belt and suspenders approach. In most Cleveland brake calipers the bolts go into self locking threads and need no additional retention. The Cessna 170/172 Cleveland retrofit kits don't have drilled bolts either...flew with them for 20+ years with no problems.  

 

 On 6/28/2012 6:42 AM, Sean Stephens wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com (sean(at)stephensville.com)>

 

 Assembling the brakes on the mains the other day and I noticed that the two bolts that came with the brake assemblies which attach the back plate were not drilled head bolts. Â Every plane I've seen has these two bolts safety-wired.

   

 Did others get non-drilled head bolts with their brake assemblies, or is it just me?

 

 I believe that those two bolts are AN4-20? Â Is that what others replaced them with for safety wiring?

 

 -Sean #40303 (Overhead Console)

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

 

 



 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 

 

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 " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

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 t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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[b]

sean(at)stephensville.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

Yes, the non-drilled bolts come with the kit from Parker/Cleveland. I 

noticed that locking effect when I was removing the bolts.  It would 

seem to prevent the bolt from backing out under most if not all 

vibration scenarios when torqued to the spec on the calipers.



I was just wondering if some folks but on their belt and suspenders and 

swapped them out for AN4H-20A.



On 6/28/12 10:17 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Note that it is Cleveland that supplies the brakes without drilled 

 head bolts. I don't recall which variety of self locking they use, but 

 the calipers definitely have self locking on those bolts. You cannot 

 back a bolt out 1/2 turn and then hand turn bolt as you could if they 

 were ordinary threads.



 On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 6:56 AM, dmaib(at)me.com <mailto:dmaib(at)me.com> 

 <dmaib(at)me.com <mailto:dmaib(at)me.com>> wrote:



     

     <mailto:dmaib(at)me.com>" <dmaib(at)me.com <mailto:dmaib(at)me.com>>



     They are not drilled head bolts. The DAR noticed this during our

     AW inspection and asked about it. We looked in the plans and found

     that they do not call for drilled heads. He was surprised, but OK

     with it since it was per plans. I decided to go ahead and install

     drilled head bolts and safety wire for peace of mind.



     --------

     David Maib

     RV-10 #40559

     Transition Trainer

     New Smyrna Beach, FL





     Read this topic online here:



     http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376775#376775



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     arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

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     http://forums.matronics.com

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     ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

     ===========





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 *

rv10pro(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:18 am Post subject: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

the wheel assemblies are supplied by MATCO.  Matco has changed to Nordlock washers as the fastener of choice.  The AN4H (with hole in the head) has been replaced with Nordlocks.

 

Johnny Horizon

 



On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

 

 Having drilled head bolts there is a belt and suspenders approach. In most Cleveland brake calipers the bolts go into self locking threads and need no additional retention. The Cessna 170/172 Cleveland retrofit kits don't have drilled bolts either...flew with them for 20+ years with no problems. 

 

 On 6/28/2012 6:42 AM, Sean Stephens wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com (sean(at)stephensville.com)>

 

 Assembling the brakes on the mains the other day and I noticed that the two bolts that came with the brake assemblies which attach the back plate were not drilled head bolts.  Every plane I've seen has these two bolts safety-wired.

  

 Did others get non-drilled head bolts with their brake assemblies, or is it just me?

 

 I believe that those two bolts are AN4-20?  Is that what others replaced them with for safety wiring?

 

 -Sean #40303 (Overhead Console)

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

 

 



 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 

 

 ====================================

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ====================================

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

 

 

 

 



[b]

sean(at)stephensville.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:32 am Post subject: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

My "main" wheels and brake kits are from Parker Cleveland.  It came with 

AN4-20A bolts to attach the back plate.



The nose wheel axle has the Nordlock washers, not the main 

wheels/brakes.  At least on my kit.



-Sean #40303



On 6/28/12 11:16 AM, John Cox wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   the wheel assemblies are supplied by MATCO.  Matco has changed to 

 Nordlock washers as the fastener of choice.  The AN4H (with hole in 

 the head) has been replaced with Nordlocks.

 Johnny Horizon



 On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com 

 <mailto:kellym(at)aviating.com>> wrote:



     

     <kellym(at)aviating.com <mailto:kellym(at)aviating.com>>



     Having drilled head bolts there is a belt and suspenders approach.

     In most Cleveland brake calipers the bolts go into self locking

     threads and need no additional retention. The Cessna 170/172

     Cleveland retrofit kits don't have drilled bolts either...flew

     with them for 20+ years with no problems.

     On 6/28/2012 6:42 AM, Sean Stephens wrote:



         

         <sean(at)stephensville.com <mailto:sean(at)stephensville.com>>



         Assembling the brakes on the mains the other day and I noticed

         that the two bolts that came with the brake assemblies which

         attach the back plate were not drilled head bolts.  Every

         plane I've seen has these two bolts safety-wired.



         Did others get non-drilled head bolts with their brake

         assemblies, or is it just me?



         I believe that those two bolts are AN4-20?  Is that what

         others replaced them with for safety wiring?



         -Sean #40303 (Overhead Console)

     -----

     No virus found in this message.

     Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>



     ====================================

     arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

     ====================================

     http://forums.matronics.com

     ====================================

     le, List Admin.

     ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

     ====================================





 *

 *

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

Has Van's changed from Cleveland wheels/brakes for the mains? When I got my finish kit 18 mo ago it was all Cleveland on the mains. The Clevelands do not use drilled head bolts.

Kelly

40866

 On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 9:16 AM, John Cox <rv10pro(at)gmail.com (rv10pro(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] the wheel assemblies are supplied by MATCO.  Matco has changed to Nordlock washers as the fastener of choice.  The AN4H (with hole in the head) has been replaced with Nordlocks.

 

Johnny Horizon

  



  

[b]

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

Hmmm.  I got my finish kit back in the Fall and my brakes were Grove and the bolts came drilled.  Has Van's been changing suppliers?

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

Last edited by tsts4 on Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

Sstella(at)incisaledge.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:35 pm Post subject: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

I just got my finish kit on Tuesday and the brakes were also Grove.

Steve Stella

#40654 

521RV (reserved)

Finishing



--

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

I think I read that Vans had changed the main wheels.

Are the Grove brake pads less expensive than the $18 each Clevelands?

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

 	  Bob Turner wrote: 	
		  I think I read that Vans had changed the main wheels.

Are the Grove brake pads less expensive than the $18 each Clevelands? 	




Appears to be.  From the Grove Website, the pads for the the 36-2M caliper that came in my kit:



066-105 Brake Pad 



Each - P/N: 066-105 - $7.45



Kit - P/N: 066-105K - $26.50

Includes 4 pads and 8 rivets

66-105.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

5.77 KB

Viewed:

10014 Time(s)

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

jkreidler

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:25 am Post subject: Re: Brake Back Plate Bolts Not Drilled?

In looking at the differences between the Grove and Cleveland brakes the Grove's appear to be a bit stronger.  The Grove's are rated at 7000lbs with 186792 lb-ft  and the Cleveland's are rated 6000 lbs with 185000 ft-lbs.  Not that the Cleveland brakes are all that bad, but I sure am glad they moved in the right direction by beefing them up just a bit.



Noticed the other night we are approaching 400 hours - how time flies when you're, well, flying!

_________________
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617

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