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uvtreith(at)t-online.de
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:10 am Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Hi Family,
An Austrian Monowheel Classic owner is thinking about to install on his wings Vortex Generators?
Is there somebody who had made that and what was the result out of this?
Is it helpful or will this destroy the benefit of the Europa wings?
Some wise and technical information would be helpful – thank you.
Best Regards,
Bruno Reith
[quote][b]
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gholland(at)content-strea
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:53 am Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Bruno Hi!
Being practical about the vortex generators and knowing very little technically I would have first thought NO.
But...... The Classic wings are all subtly different so I'm sure and that may mean that some would benefit from VG's.
With XS wings I would think a definite No no.
Many have added stall strips to correct other builder characteristics that have manifested themselves after completion.
I'm happy to know that my lack of expertise will bring forth comments that will render a proper answer from others better qualified.
Will be interested to read advice.
Regards
Gerry
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Hi Bruno-
You need to talk to Bud at Custom Flight Creations. I believe he is marketing a set of vortex generators that will work on the XS wing. You may want to e-mail him off list for prices, etc.
Jim Puglise
Europa XS N283JL
Punta Gorda, FL
From: "UVTREITH" <uvtreith(at)t-online.de>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:03:12 PM
Subject: Vortex Generators
Hi Family,
An Austrian Monowheel Classic owner is thinking about to install on his wings Vortex Generators?
Is there somebody who had made that and what was the result out of this?
Is it helpful or will this destroy the benefit of the Europa wings?
Some wise and technical information would be helpful – thank you.
Best Regards,
Bruno Reith
[quote]
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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rlborger(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:21 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Hi Bruno,
Contact Bud Yerly at Custom Flight Creations. He's the U.S. distributor for Europa and has done quite a bit of work investigating vortex generators on both Classic and XL wings. He should be able to provide counsel.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On May 31, 2012, at 11:03 AM, UVTREITH wrote:
Hi Family,
An Austrian Monowheel Classic owner is thinking about to install on his wings Vortex Generators?
Is there somebody who had made that and what was the result out of this?
Is it helpful or will this destroy the benefit of the Europa wings?
Some wise and technical information would be helpful – thank you.
Best Regards,
Bruno Reith
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:17 pm Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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Bruno
In my experience the quality of the low speed performance of the Classic wing is largely determined by the accuracy of the profile of the leading edge.
I spent a lot of time using computer print outs of the airfoil to make profile templates of the first 30cm. of the section and persuade a couple of builders
to spend a lot more time than I had sanding their leading edges to those template. Both these aircraft have excellent performance and a fairly benign stall.
Several other Classics I flew had far from benign stall characteristics, particularly flaps down.
There are however at least two Long EZ with carefully positioned vortex generators on both wings and canard and they have significantly better low
speed performance: Jim Price did the original research using wind tunnel testing at University of Michigan and took his Long to 35,000ft. At that height
there was so little power that the aircraft was almost stalled at full power. He achieved a 7kt reduction in stall speed with a 2kt reduction in WOT speed.
Graham
From: UVTREITH <uvtreith(at)t-online.de>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, 31 May 2012, 17:03
Subject: Vortex Generators
Hi Family,
An Austrian Monowheel Classic owner is thinking about to install on his wings Vortex Generators?
Is there somebody who had made that and what was the result out of this?
Is it helpful or will this destroy the benefit of the Europa wings?
Some wise and technical information would be helpful – thank you.
Best Regards,
Bruno Reith
[quote]http://www.matro====================
[b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:17 am Post subject: Vortex Generators |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Bruno,
Nice to here from you. I will send you my test report.
I have a manufacturer which supplies me with clear vinyl contoured VGs that are superb and are arced on the bottom for a good fit. They glue on with some supplied gel glue and are very easy to install, allow some repositioning and really stick once cured without damaging the paint. I made paper templates for ease of alignment. I also experimented with different positions, number and placement which is only in the flight test data.
The controllability at low speed (clean at 45 KCAS and dirty at 40) with a well rigged plane is superb. The cost is very low in comparison to the aftermarket VGs available and the speed reduction at cruise is not onerous (5 knots fixed pitch and 10 for a very clean constant speed airplane.) I developed them to meet the Light Sport Criteria here in the US.
If I were flying a Classic especially into a short field, I would use them, as the approach speed at 55 KIAS is quite stable and forgiving, allowing for a more confident stable approach to a landing which is necessary in the mono. Although the mono takeoff roll would not be improved due to the deck angle on the ground, the confidence of a easily controlled mono on final is what makes for a good consistent landing. One caution though is that the VGs give such good response and feel that one may allow his airspeed to bleed well below normal or safe region as the plane feels great, but is sinking like a rock, especially in the steep final turn. When I had a couple clients fly with the VGs, I called it falling with style (Like the movie line) as he allowed his airspeed in the final turn to drop to 40 and he was in full aileron control and didn't notice the sink. Of course when he tried to arrest the sink, the trouble began as he was into the stall. This is common with aircraft equipped with slats, slots or VGs. So mind the airspeed otherwise the client will be below stall in a sinking low AOA turn and get into trouble...
I am tied up with two planes in flight test and some poor radio/intercom performance on one plane (I didn't wire the radios and now must look for the ailment) and of course flight testing with the owner on his new systems, checking for setup changes, programming preferences, etc.
When I get into the shop on Monday, I will pull the flight test out of the archive and send it too you via email. Otherwise I have a typed up mod with the final setup and I do have the kits on the shelf.
Regards,
Bud
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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