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rmurrill(at)cox.net
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 Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject: Firestar as a Lawn Ornament |
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An well known aviation website lists a broken no N# Firestar for auction
next weekend in
Arizona. It should go really cheap. I am toying with the idea of adding
to my still in work Mk III project. I know that several folks on the list
have a really good knowledge of the regs and actual implementation regarding
E-LSA and ask for
a little insight on the applicable rules. The owner at the time of the
mishap, who may or may not have been the initial builder, bought new cage,
LG legs, and tail boom to repair, then decided not to proceed and the hole
package ended up in the hands of a local club. They now have decided not
to pursue the rebuild..... so...Can this airplane ever legally fly ? There
appears to be clean paperwork on ownership of the original kit and the
repair parts.
Can one rebuild like a certified aircraft based on a data plate.... of
another damaged N# Firestar aircraft and then fly off the experimental hours
with the combined parts I guess is my basic question? Alternatively any
ideas on how one would pitch the FSDO or local DAR on the new parts plus
original kit to get a fresh Experimental certificate?
Bob
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: Firestar as a Lawn Ornament |
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Bob, There is no way to license the Firestar in E-LSA. That opportunity ended 1-31-2010 when the grandfathering offered by FAR 21.91i(1) expired. So you are limited to two types of experimental, MAYBE. The big maybe is E-AB. Since there will be an extensive rebuild you might be able to convince your DAR that you have done required work. Since you are going to build up a new fuselage and could create an extensive builder log, he might go for it. I would pursue the topic with your DAR along the lines of, "I'm thinking of acquiring a Firestar fuselage project and I've located a set of wings that will speed up the project, would it be eligible for E-AB? He might say okay, but wouldn't be able to give you a repairman's certificate for it since such a large portion of the building will not be done by you. It's a crap shoot, but you should be able to get a decision without risking any money.
The other option is E-E, Experimental Exhibition. This is a much more limited certificate and, depending on your FSDO, you will have yearly hoops to jump through and you would be limited to training flights and flying to airshows and fly ins. Because of this the value of the aircraft would be diminished, but how much is anyone's guess.
Rick Girard
On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Bob <rmurrill(at)cox.net (rmurrill(at)cox.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob" <rmurrill(at)cox.net (rmurrill(at)cox.net)>
An well known aviation website lists a broken no N# Firestar for auction next weekend in
Arizona. It should go really cheap. I am toying with the idea of adding
to my still in work Mk III project. I know that several folks on the list
have a really good knowledge of the regs and actual implementation regarding E-LSA and ask for
a little insight on the applicable rules. The owner at the time of the
mishap, who may or may not have been the initial builder, bought new cage,
LG legs, and tail boom to repair, then decided not to proceed and the hole
package ended up in the hands of a local club. They now have decided not
to pursue the rebuild..... so...Can this airplane ever legally fly ? There
appears to be clean paperwork on ownership of the original kit and the
repair parts.
Can one rebuild like a certified aircraft based on a data plate.... of
another damaged N# Firestar aircraft and then fly off the experimental hours
with the combined parts I guess is my basic question? Alternatively any
ideas on how one would pitch the FSDO or local DAR on the new parts plus
original kit to get a fresh Experimental certificate?
Bob
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arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
[quote][b]
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rmurrill(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: Firestar as a Lawn Ornament |
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Thank you Richard for your response. You are pretty much confirming what I thought I understood regarding the E-AB rules and the expiration of the grandfathering. It amazes me that there are so many of these airplanes around that somebody put lots of money into and lots of hours of labor and then didn’t spend the few hundred additional to get it licensed. I suppose it is possible the cage and boom on this Firestar were damaged by a hanger door mishap on the day the DAR was coming to do the inspection. I will check with one of the local DARs and see if he thinks there is a path to licensing, but sounds like I’ll be better off leaving the pile of parts gathering dust in someone else's hanger rather than mine..Thanks
Bob
From: Richard Girard (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 7:28 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Firestar as a Lawn Ornament
Bob, There is no way to license the Firestar in E-LSA. That opportunity ended 1-31-2010 when the grandfathering offered by FAR 21.91i(1) expired. So you are limited to two types of experimental, MAYBE. The big maybe is E-AB. Since there will be an extensive rebuild you might be able to convince your DAR that you have done required work. Since you are going to build up a new fuselage and could create an extensive builder log, he might go for it. I would pursue the topic with your DAR along the lines of, "I'm thinking of acquiring a Firestar fuselage project and I've located a set of wings that will speed up the project, would it be eligible for E-AB? He might say okay, but wouldn't be able to give you a repairman's certificate for it since such a large portion of the building will not be done by you. It's a crap shoot, but you should be able to get a decision without risking any money.
The other option is E-E, Experimental Exhibition. This is a much more limited certificate and, depending on your FSDO, you will have yearly hoops to jump through and you would be limited to training flights and flying to airshows and fly ins. Because of this the value of the aircraft would be diminished, but how much is anyone's guess.
Rick Girard
On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Bob <rmurrill(at)cox.net (rmurrill(at)cox.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Bob" <rmurrill(at)cox.net (rmurrill(at)cox.net)>
An well known aviation website lists a broken no N# Firestar for auction next weekend in
Arizona. It should go really cheap. I am toying with the idea of adding
to my still in work Mk III project. I know that several folks on the list
have a really good knowledge of the regs and actual implementation regarding E-LSA and ask for
a little insight on the applicable rules. The owner at the time of the
mishap, who may or may not have been the initial builder, bought new cage,
LG legs, and tail boom to repair, then decided not to proceed and the hole
package ended up in the hands of a local club. They now have decided not
to pursue the rebuild..... so...Can this airplane ever legally fly ? There
appears to be clean paperwork on ownership of the original kit and the
repair parts.
Can one rebuild like a certified aircraft based on a data plate.... of
another damaged N# Firestar aircraft and then fly off the experimental hours
with the combined parts I guess is my basic question? Alternatively any
ideas on how one would pitch the FSDO or local DAR on the new parts plus
original kit to get a fresh Experimental certificate?
Bob
====================================
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
====================================
http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
|
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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