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Europa for repair on AFORS

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gholland(at)content-strea
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: Europa for repair on AFORS

Can I just ask the advice of one of two well known Guru's on this List.There is a Europa for Sale on AFORS at:

http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=15525&imid=0

Part of the write up quotes:

Professionally built just needs fibreglass repairs and a new stick assembly, lower cowl and elevator push/pull tube in replacement parts.

Am I being naive in thinking that the fuselage will need a complete new Fuselage, lower and upper and control Module.

I'm looking for a project but this one looks to be listed with an emphasis that it's very practical exercise and not a big deal. I'm thinking it's a big task.

Comments please.

Regards

Gerry

 [quote][b]

groups(at)thegoddards.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject: Europa for repair on AFORS

Gerry,

I have a lower cowl you can have foc.

Vince

G-BWUP

ULPower 260iS Swiss tail dragger



Sent from my iPad



On 1 Jun 2012, at 19:44, Gerry Holland <gholland(at)content-stream.co.uk (gholland(at)content-stream.co.uk)> wrote:



[quote]Can I just ask the advice of one of two well known Guru's on this List.There is a Europa for Sale on AFORS at:

http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=15525&imid=0

Part of the write up quotes:

Professionally built just needs fibreglass repairs and a new stick assembly, lower cowl and elevator push/pull tube in replacement parts.

Am I being naive in thinking that the fuselage will need a complete new Fuselage, lower and upper and control Module.

I'm looking for a project but this one looks to be listed with an emphasis that it's very practical exercise and not a big deal. I'm thinking it's a big task.

Comments please.

Regards

Gerry

  	  Quote: 	
		  



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tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

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cs.com

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matronics.com/contribution

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[b]

gholland(at)content-strea
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject: Europa for repair on AFORS

Thanks Vince.I think I'll defer full stop on this one. Opinion and advice to date is leave well alone with this wreck.

Hope your UL install is going well. Come over and see us when it's all cleared up.

Regards

Gerry

 [quote][b]

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: Europa for repair on AFORS

Gerry,



Whoo, there's a bit of work.

If you actually are interested in that "project" Europa, I'd suggest you directly contact Nev and Bud to get their opinions on the amount of real work necessary to restore that bird to flying condition.  They'd have the necessary experience to evaluate it.  All that fiberglass damage can be repaired but the question is whether or not it is worth the effort involved or would you be better off seeking another project.  Maybe something like a partially completed kit that's been lurking, untouched, in someone's shed for the last few years.



 Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)

 

 

On Jun 1, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Gerry Holland wrote:

Can I just ask the advice of one of two well known Guru's on this List.There is a Europa for Sale on AFORS at:

http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=15525&imid=0

Part of the write up quotes:

Professionally built just needs fibreglass repairs and a new stick assembly, lower cowl and elevator push/pull tube in replacement parts.

Am I being naive in thinking that the fuselage will need a complete new Fuselage, lower and upper and control Module.

I'm looking for a project but this one looks to be listed with an emphasis that it's very practical exercise and not a big deal. I'm thinking it's a big task.

Comments please.

Regards

Gerry

gholland(at)content-strea
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:59 am Post subject: Europa for repair on AFORS

Carl Hi!

Your observations on the Europa 'wreck' were eloquently put and match my own.

I thought I would air the subject as someone less expert on Europa building maybe drawn into thinking this is doable.

Both of us have built a Europa and based on that experience I think, like you, this advert lacks realistic direction and fact.

The occurrence leading to this crash was the alternator belt burning up after alternator seized.

Details: http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Europa,%20G-BWCV%2003-07.pdf



A Subaru Engine as per this Aircraft is worth only £1000 max.

The rest of aircraft is of dubious serviceability due to crash damage and being stored over 5 years since incident.

IMHO. Buyer beware!

Regards

Gerry

stephen vestuti

Joined: 05 Jul 2011
Posts: 62
Location: Wales, UK

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:13 am Post subject: Re: Europa for repair on AFORS

Hi Gerry,

nice to see you may be building another Europa. Hope you manage to 

find somthing.

Incidentally, that's been for sale for a really long time - it's obviously not worth what he's asking,



Steve.

klinefelter.kevin(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:03 am Post subject: Europa for repair on AFORS

Gerry,

Thanks for the link regarding this forced landing. Very interesting!

Kevin



On Jun 2, 2012, at 1:58 AM, Gerry Holland <gholland(at)content-stream.co.uk> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Carl Hi!

 Your observations on the Europa 'wreck' were eloquently put and match my own.

 I thought I would air the subject as someone less expert on Europa building maybe drawn into thinking this is doable.

 Both of us have built a Europa and based on that experience I think, like you, this advert lacks realistic direction and fact.

 The occurrence leading to this crash was the alternator belt burning up after alternator seized.

 Details: http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Europa,%20G-BWCV%2003-07.pdf

 

 A Subaru Engine as per this Aircraft is worth only Â£1000 max.

 The rest of aircraft is of dubious serviceability due to crash damage and being stored over 5 years since incident.

 IMHO. Buyer beware!

 Regards

 Gerry

Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:25 am Post subject: Europa for repair on AFORS

..the author of the text for the advert deserves a special award for  

creativity and imagination...



do not archive

houlihan(at)blueyonder.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:37 am Post subject: Europa for repair on AFORS

Hi Carl.



I agree with all you say except why do you pick out a Classic wing as being very difficult to repair.

In my very humble opinion damage to a foam core structure like the classic wing should be easier to part replace or repair than say a monocoque structure like the XS wing.

 As I say this comment is only based on my experience building a classic aircraft so I am not an expert in this area.

Tim Houlihan



On 2 June 2012 09:23, Carl Pattinson <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk (carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk)> wrote:

 [quote]

The “aircraft” looks like a complete disaster area and the idea that the fuselage can safely be pieced together is pure fantasy.  I can’t see any inspector in his right mind signing this off unless the whole area was paint stripped and checked for further stress damage. The fuselage is a “write off” – you would need to purchase a new fuselage, though it might be possible to save the cockpit module. 

 

One thing not mentioned to date is one of the wings appears to have significant leading edge damage – if it’s a classic Europa will be very difficult (though not impossible) to repair. The wing profile on the Europa is critical (performance wise) so if the repair is not perfect it will fly like a brick (and probably stall/ spin like a kamikazee !) 

 

The engine is a Subaru which I if I am not mistaken was the reason it the aircraft crashed in the first place – the early ones were unreliable ! 

 

Is it worth £6,500 in parts – questionable. 

 

Unless you are looking for a project that will never fly. 

 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan

 Sent: 02 June 2012 04:09

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: Europa for repair on AFORS 

 

When I read "just needs fibreglass repairs" what I was picturing was an airframe with a few dings, damaged control surfaces, broken canopy and prop. But the website photo shows the firewall and the tail cone completely separated from the fuselage. It looks far more serious than "just needs fibreglass repairs".

 



On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Gerry Holland <gholland(at)content-stream.co.uk (gholland(at)content-stream.co.uk)> wrote: 

Can I just ask the advice of one of two well known Guru's on this List.

There is a Europa for Sale on AFORS at:



 http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=15525&imid=0



  



Part of the write up quotes:



Professionally built just needs fibreglass repairs and a new stick assembly, lower cowl and elevator push/pull tube in replacement parts. 



Am I being naive in thinking that the fuselage will need a complete new Fuselage, lower and upper and control Module.



 

 

I'm looking for a project but this one looks to be listed with an emphasis that it's very practical exercise and not a big deal. I'm thinking it's a big task.

 

Comments please.



 



Regards



Gerry 

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		    arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listtp://forums..matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution  	


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[b]

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 792

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:40 am Post subject: Europa for repair on AFORS

Hi Gerry 

 	Just a note on the forced landing. Anyone who is trying to fly with a prop that has the ability to truly free windmill better be prepared to count on performance comparable to having a drogue chute in trail with a dead engine. If I were to have a sub setup like this, practice with a stopped (not idling engine) engine would be on my agenda. I met a piper Archer II who walked with a severe limp because one leg was several inches shorter than the other. He was giving a very capable instrument student a last lesson before he took his instrument check ride. Perfect day, long runway, 10MPH right down the runway, clear and very wide runway. several hundred feet over the runway with plenty left, the engine quit. The next thing they both knew they were in a mass of twisted metal on the grass off to the side of the runway? Everyone was having a very hard time figuring out what happened? It ends up the catastrophic engine failure was a broken crankshaft just aft of the main bearing for the prop. This allowed the prop to really spin up without any frictional and other drag from the motor. DRAG CITY! This is not something one could easy practice. They remembered having the nose pointed down a lot further than normal but things went bad anyway. Just to send this message home, the next time you have access to a pinwheel, stick it out car window with 30MPH airspeed and prevent from turning and note drag, then let it spin up WOW. Stuff happens, but if you have this one built in you can somewhat prepare. I don't know if anyone still offers a power plant with free windmilling prop? 

 	Ron Parigoris 	     [quote][b]

Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: Europa for repair on AFORS

On Jun 4, 2012, at 2:35 AM, Carl Pattinson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Professionally built just needs fibreglass repairs and a new stick assembly, lower cowl and elevator push/pull tube in replacement parts. 	




The photos in the ad would seem to indicate that its author is a true believer in The Greater Fool Theory; i.e., in this case, that no matter how foolish one may appear when setting a price for something...a greater fool will eventually buy it...

do not archive

 [quote][b]

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: Europa for repair on AFORS

Hi /All



I read this accident summary. There was a mention 

"pilot´s workload was increased because the master 

switch was off and the trim was then unavailable". 

That is bad.



I have connected the trim and all the warnings 

like a gear warning so, that I still have have 

them as well as a re-start possibility.



There is a separate mechanical grand-masterswitch 

which cuts really everything. I use that only 

during long stops (days) /own hangar stops because 

that deactivates also an alarm /a bandit radar.



Raimo



-----Alkuperäinen viesti----- 

From: stephen vestuti

Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2012 1:13 PM

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Europa for repair on 

AFORS




vestuti" <s.vestuti(at)gmail.com>



Hi Gerry,

nice to see you may be building another Europa. 

Hope you manage to

find somthing.

Incidentally, that's been for sale for a really 

long time - it's obviously not worth what he's 

asking,



Steve.





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