 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest
|
 Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:11 am Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
 |
|
In reading 91.411 and 91.413, it says the manufacturer of the airplane can perform the tests.
Since I built my 6A, I'm thinking that I cando the tests myself and make the logbook entry.
Testing the transponder codes might be the difficult part - but I have already built the test equipment and tested the Pitot-static system and verified the altitude goung to the transponder is correct.
Thoughts please,
Ralph
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gary.A.Sobek
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 217
Location: SoCAL USA
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:47 am Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
Negative.
You must use a certified repair station. Only a Manufacturer that has been approved as a Production Facility by the FAA will be able to do their own transponder check if they were authorized by the FAA to do it. Did you build a TC (Type Certificated) aircraft in a facility approved to build in accordance with the design approved in the TC by the FAA?
Manufacturer on your Registration (8050-3) may have your name but it only means that you are the builder.
Note on your Special Airworthiness Certificate (8130-7), Manufacturer is listed as N/A.
Gary A. Sobek
A&P / DAR
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,780+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
| Quote: | Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 09:46:52 -0400
From: recapen(at)earthlink.net
To: avionics-list(at)matronics.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
In reading 91.411 and 91.413, it says the manufacturer of the airplane can perform the tests.
Since I built my 6A, I'm thinking that I cando the tests myself and make the logbook entry.
Testing the transponder codes might be the difficult part - but I have already built the test equipment and tested the Pitot-static system and verified the altitude goung to the transponder is correct.
Thoughts ========================
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:29 am Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
Thanks Gary!
[quote]--
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stein(at)steinair.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:01 am Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
Gary is correct in the fact that unless you have a TC, you are not a “Mfgr” in the eyes of the FAA.
Not only that, but your “test equipment” must be calibrated to certain approved standards and be certified as currently in calibration. It’s also not as simple as verifying the codes and altitude readout in the transponder. You have to test the output frequency and a +/- range variation (+/- 3mHz), the suppression system, receiver sensitivity, peak output power, altitude readout, codes, etc.. If it’s a Mode S, you have to add in the Diversity test, the reply address, uplink formats, all call, squitter output for ES, and more.
It typically only costs $75-$125 to have it done the right way (and only about 15 minutes of time), so no reason to be pennywise on this particular part of the plane.
Just my 2 cents as usual,
Stein
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:43 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
Negative.
You must use a certified repair station. Only a Manufacturer that has been approved as a Production Facility by the FAA will be able to do their own transponder check if they were authorized by the FAA to do it. Did you build a TC (Type Certificated) aircraft in a facility approved to build in accordance with the design approved in the TC by the FAA?
Manufacturer on your Registration (8050-3) may have your name but it only means that you are the builder.
Note on your Special Airworthiness Certificate (8130-7), Manufacturer is listed as N/A.
Gary A. Sobek
A&P / DAR
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,780+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
denis.walsh(at)comcast.ne
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
Excellent input, Stein! You are a valuable asset to this list.
I would like to add another non-technical, non regulatory view:
I have never witnessed or even heard of anyone being cited for not having a transponder check by the FAA. I have never seen it asked for on an Airworthiness inspection. I could say the same for the ELT and for several other critical things.
So if you are looking for something to "get away with", this is a good candidate.
I, like Stein, consider it penny wise to skip this check. I add further that it is stupid and unsafe. In today's flying environment both FAA controllers and many many of our fellow aviators rely immensely on the transponder output to keep traffic separated!!
So wake up guys!! Even though you only see a blinking light once in a while, the accurate operation of your transponder is critical to your safety and to all those with in collision distance.
Denis Walsh
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)
On 8Jun, 2012, at 9:57 , Stein Bruch wrote:
| Quote: | Gary is correct in the fact that unless you have a TC, you are not a Mfgr in the eyes of the FAA.
Not only that, but your test equipment must be calibrated to certain approved standards and be certified as currently in calibration. Its also not as simple as verifying the codes and altitude readout in the transponder. You have to test the output frequency and a +/- range variation (+/- 3mHz), the suppression system, receiver sensitivity, peak output power, altitude readout, codes, etc.. If its a Mode S, you have to add in the Diversity test, the reply address, uplink formats, all call, squitter output for ES, and more.
It typically only costs $75-$125 to have it done the right way (and only about 15 minutes of time), so no reason to be pennywise on this particular part of the plane.
Just my 2 cents as usual,
Stein
|
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:31 am Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
I wish it was $75-$125. I just shelled out $650 for two planes and they both passed right off the bat.
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 11:58 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
Gary is correct in the fact that unless you have a TC, you are not a “Mfgr” in the eyes of the FAA.
Not only that, but your “test equipment” must be calibrated to certain approved standards and be certified as currently in calibration. It’s also not as simple as verifying the codes and altitude readout in the transponder. You have to test the output frequency and a +/- range variation (+/- 3mHz), the suppression system, receiver sensitivity, peak output power, altitude readout, codes, etc.. If it’s a Mode S, you have to add in the Diversity test, the reply address, uplink formats, all call, squitter output for ES, and more.
It typically only costs $75-$125 to have it done the right way (and only about 15 minutes of time), so no reason to be pennywise on this particular part of the plane.
Just my 2 cents as usual,
Stein
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:43 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
Negative.
You must use a certified repair station. Only a Manufacturer that has been approved as a Production Facility by the FAA will be able to do their own transponder check if they were authorized by the FAA to do it. Did you build a TC (Type Certificated) aircraft in a facility approved to build in accordance with the design approved in the TC by the FAA?
Manufacturer on your Registration (8050-3) may have your name but it only means that you are the builder.
Note on your Special Airworthiness Certificate (8130-7), Manufacturer is listed as N/A.
Gary A. Sobek
A&P / DAR
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,780+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
012345678901234567
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gyoung
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 211
Location: Republic of Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
I heard prices around here of $275-$350. On further checking I found that’s for an IFR certification. The VFR check is ~$90. I think the big difference is for the altimeter check.
Regards,
Greg Young
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 2:30 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
I wish it was $75-$125. I just shelled out $650 for two planes and they both passed right off the bat.
Carl
[quote] [b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
I had the transponder in my experimental checked last fall... We wait to get several other planes needing an inspection done and schedule the mobile avionics guy from Idaho Falls to travel over and do them all in one day.. Transponder check was 95.00. Static Pitot test was 30.00...
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
--------
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
Good point – I had IFR checks done.
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bigdog(at)bentwing.com
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 4:18 PM
To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RE: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
I heard prices around here of $275-$350. On further checking I found that’s for an IFR certification. The VFR check is ~$90. I think the big difference is for the altimeter check.
Regards,
Greg Young
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 2:30 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
I wish it was $75-$125. I just shelled out $650 for two planes and they both passed right off the bat.
Carl
| Quote: | | </================ |
[/b][/quote]http://forums.matronics.com[/url] - List Contribution Web generous nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/c=[/b] [/quote]
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary.A.Sobek
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 217
Location: SoCAL USA
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
IF you have a card for formation flight and are flying in wavered airspace at an airshow, you will be checked for transponder and ELT Checks. ELT check should be logged. Check 91.207(d) for what needs checked and recorded for you ELT.
Gary
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 8, 2012, at 12:26 PM, "Denis Walsh" <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Excellent input, Stein! You are a valuable asset to this list.
I would like to add another non-technical, non regulatory view:
I have never witnessed or even heard of anyone being cited for not having a transponder check by the FAA. I have never seen it asked for on an Airworthiness inspection. I could say the same for the ELT and for several other critical things.
So if you are looking for something to "get away with", this is a good candidate.
I, like Stein, consider it penny wise to skip this check. I add further that it is stupid and unsafe. In today's flying environment both FAA controllers and many many of our fellow aviators rely immensely on the transponder output to keep traffic separated!!
So wake up guys!! Even though you only see a blinking light once in a while, the accurate operation of your transponder is critical to your safety and to all those with in collision distance.
Denis Walsh
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net
On 8Jun, 2012, at 9:57 , Stein Bruch wrote:
> Gary is correct in the fact that unless you have a TC, you are not a “Mfgr” in the eyes of the FAA.
>
> Not only that, but your “test equipment” must be calibrated to certain approved standards and be certified as currently in calibration. It’s also not as simple as verifying the codes and altitude readout in the transponder. You have to test the output frequency and a +/- range variation (+/- 3mHz), the suppression system, receiver sensitivity, peak output power, altitude readout, codes, etc.. If it’s a Mode S, you have to add in the Diversity test, the reply address, uplink formats, all call, squitter output for ES, and more.
>
> It typically only costs $75-$125 to have it done the right way (and only about 15 minutes of time), so no reason to be pennywise on this particular part of the plane.
>
> Just my 2 cents as usual,
>
> Stein
>
_-============================================================
_-= - The RV-List Email Forum -
_-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
_-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
_-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
_-= Photoshare, and much much more:
_-=
_-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
_-=
_-============================================================
_-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
_-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
_-=
_-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
_-=
_-============================================================
_-= - List Contribution Web Site -
_-= Thank you for your generous support!
_-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
_-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_-============================================================
|
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stein(at)steinair.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
Then you got royally taken…nobody I’ve ever heard of charges $325 for a VFR transponder check – even at the expensive airports! $325 is reasonable for an IFR check, but NOT a VFR Check – which is what the reference point is…
Cheers,
Stein
Do not archive
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 2:30 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
I wish it was $75-$125. I just shelled out $650 for two planes and they both passed right off the bat.
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 11:58 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
Gary is correct in the fact that unless you have a TC, you are not a “Mfgr” in the eyes of the FAA.
Not only that, but your “test equipment” must be calibrated to certain approved standards and be certified as currently in calibration. It’s also not as simple as verifying the codes and altitude readout in the transponder. You have to test the output frequency and a +/- range variation (+/- 3mHz), the suppression system, receiver sensitivity, peak output power, altitude readout, codes, etc.. If it’s a Mode S, you have to add in the Diversity test, the reply address, uplink formats, all call, squitter output for ES, and more.
It typically only costs $75-$125 to have it done the right way (and only about 15 minutes of time), so no reason to be pennywise on this particular part of the plane.
Just my 2 cents as usual,
Stein
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:43 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
Negative.
You must use a certified repair station. Only a Manufacturer that has been approved as a Production Facility by the FAA will be able to do their own transponder check if they were authorized by the FAA to do it. Did you build a TC (Type Certificated) aircraft in a facility approved to build in accordance with the design approved in the TC by the FAA?
Manufacturer on your Registration (8050-3) may have your name but it only means that you are the builder.
Note on your Special Airworthiness Certificate (8130-7), Manufacturer is listed as N/A.
Gary A. Sobek
A&P / DAR
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,780+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
0123456789012345678901234567
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wgreenley
Joined: 09 Jan 2010
Posts: 100
Location: Dowagiac, MI
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
Locally I just paid $175 for an IFR cert.
Bill Greenley
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 5:01 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
Then you got royally taken…nobody I’ve ever heard of charges $325 for a VFR transponder check – even at the expensive airports! $325 is reasonable for an IFR check, but NOT a VFR Check – which is what the reference point is…
Cheers,
Stein
Do not archive
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 2:30 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
I wish it was $75-$125. I just shelled out $650 for two planes and they both passed right off the bat.
Carl
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 11:58 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
Gary is correct in the fact that unless you have a TC, you are not a “Mfgr” in the eyes of the FAA.
Not only that, but your “test equipment” must be calibrated to certain approved standards and be certified as currently in calibration. It’s also not as simple as verifying the codes and altitude readout in the transponder. You have to test the output frequency and a +/- range variation (+/- 3mHz), the suppression system, receiver sensitivity, peak output power, altitude readout, codes, etc.. If it’s a Mode S, you have to add in the Diversity test, the reply address, uplink formats, all call, squitter output for ES, and more.
It typically only costs $75-$125 to have it done the right way (and only about 15 minutes of time), so no reason to be pennywise on this particular part of the plane.
Just my 2 cents as usual,
Stein
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:43 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
Negative.
You must use a certified repair station. Only a Manufacturer that has been approved as a Production Facility by the FAA will be able to do their own transponder check if they were authorized by the FAA to do it. Did you build a TC (Type Certificated) aircraft in a facility approved to build in accordance with the design approved in the TC by the FAA?
Manufacturer on your Registration (8050-3) may have your name but it only means that you are the builder.
Note on your Special Airworthiness Certificate (8130-7), Manufacturer is listed as N/A.
Gary A. Sobek
A&P / DAR
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,780+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
01234567890123456789012345678901234567
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bicyclop(at)pacbell.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:41 pm Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
Are you saying that they require you to produce your logbooks?
Ed
On 6/8/2012 1:50 PM, RV6 Flyer wrote: [quote] IF you have a card for formation flight and are flying in wavered airspace at an airshow, you will be checked for transponder and ELT Checks. ELT check should be logged. Check 91.207(d) for what needs checked and recorded for you ELT.
Gary Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 8, 2012, at 12:26 PM, "Denis Walsh" <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Excellent input, Stein! You are a valuable asset to this list.
I would like to add another non-technical, non regulatory view:
I have never witnessed or even heard of anyone being cited for not having a transponder check by the FAA. I have never seen it asked for on an Airworthiness inspection. I could say the same for the ELT and for several other critical things.
So if you are looking for something to "get away with", this is a good candidate.
I, like Stein, consider it penny wise to skip this check. I add further that it is stupid and unsafe. In today's flying environment both FAA controllers and many many of our fellow aviators rely immensely on the transponder output to keep traffic separated!!
So wake up guys!! Even though you only see a blinking light once in a while, the accurate operation of your transponder is critical to your safety and to all those with in collision distance.
Denis Walsh
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)
On 8Jun, 2012, at 9:57 , Stein Bruch wrote:
| Quote: | Gary is correct in the fact that unless you have a TC, you are not a “Mfgr” in the eyes of the FAA.
Not only that, but your “test equipment” must be calibrated to certain approved standards and be certified as currently in calibration. It’s also not as simple as verifying the codes and altitude readout in the transponder. You have to test the output frequency and a +/- range variation (+/- 3mHz), the suppression system, receiver sensitivity, peak output power, altitude readout, codes, etc.. If it’s a Mode S, you have to add in the Diversity test, the reply address, uplink formats, all call, squitter output for ES, and more.
It typically only costs $75-$125 to have it done the right way (and only about 15 minutes of time), so no reason to be pennywise on this particular part of the plane.
Just my 2 cents as usual,
Stein
|
|
���~��,�g���M4�G�q���z����.�'����������������8ER��&j)E���K� �j��',.+-歺��5�h����,x zf�ȸ���b�+bz�.r�.+-Rҹ� �*m�� �!��y�܄:0�Zw�����ǂ��E���h��y�ݚ�!��!�������i��0�f����r�(��Z�(���T���m���� ���'�� �o�j�j�+ER�������������������M� $�NEC&z �j�(�ק��l��ڊV����j�^Y�Ţ��������ߢ���f����r�(�m��ߢ���f����r�(��������������������*'����ب�g�J+^8�L���+ʋ���ޮ����i��1�m������ �)j�|���� &j��',r��r��&�*'��i��0�f����r�(��(���n�b������������������ߢ{���n�r�fl===[b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary.A.Sobek
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 217
Location: SoCAL USA
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:42 am Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
Logbook, Notarized photo copy of logbook page(s), or a signed form showing the dates of the inspections. Almost no one has their log in the airplane so one of the two other ways are fine.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
2,590+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 22:40:41 -0700
From: bicyclop(at)pacbell.net
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications
Are you saying that they require you to produce your logbooks?
Ed
On 6/8/2012 1:50 PM, RV6 Flyer wrote: [quote] IF you have a card for formation flight and are flying in wavered airspace at an airshow, you will be checked for transponder and ELT Checks. ELT check should be logged. Check 91.207(d) for what needs checked and recorded for you ELT.
Gary Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 8, 2012, at 12:26 PM, "Denis Walsh" <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Excellent input, Stein! You are a valuable asset to this list.
I would like to add another non-technical, non regulatory view:
I have never witnessed or even heard of anyone being cited for not having a transponder check by the FAA. I have never seen it asked for on an Airworthiness inspection. I could say the same for the ELT and for several other critical things.
So if you are looking for something to "get away with", this is a good candidate.
I, like Stein, consider it penny wise to skip this check. I add further that it is stupid and unsafe. In today's flying environment both FAA controllers and many many of our fellow aviators rely immensely on the transponder output to keep traffic separated!!
So wake up guys!! Even though you only see a blinking light once in a while, the accurate operation of your transponder is critical to your safety and to all those with in collision distance.
Denis Walsh
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)
On 8Jun, 2012, at 9:57 , Stein Bruch wrote:
| Quote: | Gary is correct in the fact that unless you have a TC, you are not a “Mfgr” in the eyes of the FAA.
Not only that, but your “test equipment” must be calibrated to certain approved standards and be certified as currently in calibration. It’s also not as simple as verifying the codes and altitude readout in the transponder. You have to test the output frequency and a +/- range variation (+/- 3mHz), the suppression system, receiver sensitivity, peak output power, altitude readout, codes, etc.. If it’s a Mode S, you have to add in the Diversity test, the reply address, uplink formats, all call, squitter output for ES, and more.
It typically only costs $75-$125 to have it done the right way (and only about 15 minutes of time), so no reason to be pennywise on this particular part of the plane.
Just my 2 cents as usual,
Stein
|
|
���~��,�g���M4�G�q���z����.�'����������������8ER��&j)E���K� �j��',.+-歺��5�h����,x zf�ȸ���b�+bz�.r�.+-Rҹ� �*m�� �!��y�܄:0�Zw�����ǂ��E���h��y�ݚ�!��!�������i��0�f����r�(��Z�(���T���m���� ���'�� �o�j�j�+ER�������������������M� $�NEC&z �j�(�ק��l��ڊV����j�^Y�Ţ��������ߢ���f����r�(�m��ߢ���f����r�(��������������������*'����ب�g�J+^8�L���+ʋ���ޮ����i��1�m������ �)j�|���� &j��',r��r��&�*'��i��0�f����r�(��(���n�b������������������ߢ{���n�r�fl===[b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:23 am Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
I don't know that it's worth "trying to get away with" anything these days, and having a transponder be INOP in any way could cause you many headaches. As you probably already heard, the FAA is now on both our backs and ATC's too, to report all infractions even minor. They're even being heavy handed to a degree. You miss some radio calls while flying under ATC control, you're busted, your Mode C stops working, you're busted. You drift on assigned altitude a little and now they aren't ALLOWED to give you the leeway and just chew you out and grumble until you move out of their sector...or say "say altitude" as a clue. These days, if you're flying in the system or controlling it, you're being watched and if you mess up even a little you may have some real 'splainin' to do and it can cost you hassles or suspensions. So I guess I'd rather get the check and KNoW my transponder and altimeter pass. I'll tag below my post, two from the Lancair list recently. They had a couple of interesting incidents that showed the new kinder FAA's attitude.
see below, Tim
Wish I were dealing with such a compassionate FAA office. I've been communicating for 4 weeks with ORL FAA regarding a lost comm episode in my 360. I was IFR and lost comm (IFR flight, maintained clearance, route, altitude, etc.). When I realized the radio had gone quiet I started calling for radio checks and using comm 2. Consulted charts, reached the next controller (on Comm 1) and resumed normal flight (ending with instrument approach into my home airport).
FAA is all worked up because of 23 minutes of lost comm. I recognize it's not a short amount of time, but they are indicating they will take administrative action. I'm frustrated because I feel like I did everything right. 23 minutes of lost comm was probably 15 to 18 minutes of silence before I started trying radio checks and consulting the charts.
The next week I flew the same route and timed every gap of "silence". It was the Sunday that Sun-N-Fun let out and I still had 13 minutes of silence with one controller (this was in FL). But the ORL FAA inspector is very worked up that my lost comm was over 20 minutes… So BEWARE and make sure your radios have good reception!
And I'm still not sure why I lost comm. The reception has never been great in my little bird (internal antennas), but the only reasonable explanation is that my wife, who often uses the volume control on the headset cord so she can take a little cat-nap, accidentally adjusted my volume to zero, then adjusted it back up after we were out of ATC's transmitter range. She could have confused the two controls (they both are tucked into the center armrest). So beware of the possible risks. The FAA may or may not be compassionate.
Matt
From: <bronnenmeier(at)GROBSYSTEMS.COM (bronnenmeier(at)GROBSYSTEMS.COM)>Reply-To: Lancair List <lml(at)lancaironline.net (lml(at)lancaironline.net)>Date: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 9:52 AMTo: Lancair List <lml(at)lancaironline.net (lml(at)lancaironline.net)>Subject: [LML] ensure your transponder works
Dear subscribers
Last week I flew from my home airport in Ohio to the Linden Airport
(KLDJ - about 10 miles south of Newark). I flew into this airport IFR
before and I recall the controller asking me if I could finish my flight
VFR because of all the traffic in this area. This time I decided not to
bother anybody and go VFR from the start since the weather was fine.
I had a Garmin 320 transponder and the amber light was happily flashing
all the way to New York. What I did not know was that the transponder
failed and was not sending out a signal....
When I landed the airport stuff came up immediately and told me to call
NY FAA. They filed then a Mode C violation and told me not to move the
plane without permission.
After I hung up with them I got a call from our front desk at my home
airport. Homeland security called them while I was still in the air and
asked about this airplane that departed from this airport. Fortunately
the girl knew me and gave them the right answers. I got a weather
briefing before I left. I don't know if this helped. I haven't heard
from Homeland Security so far...
When I wanted to move the 4P away from the fuel pump my starter died. I
had to stay the night and order a new starter overnight. The folks from
the Linden airport let me use their hangar because of my emergency
situation for free. Tom Madden from AOG aircraft services helped me with
ordering the starter, flew my transponder to another airport for bench
check, found me a used Garmin 327 transponder replacement, worked with
me on the installation of the starter, let me use all his tools and
charged me in the end 600$ !!! - what a positive experience in this
whole mess!!
After explaining the FAA that the old transponder failed and I had a
replacement in place I got permission to leave Linden the next day. The
new transponder works and everybody can see me again. The FAA indicated
that since I have a work order for testing the old transponder (Tom
Madden's recommendation) they will drop my charges.
I would have never guessed that you can get yourself in so much trouble
by just flying VFR.....
Ralf
On Jun 8, 2012, at 2:16 PM, Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
[quote]Excellent input, Stein! You are a valuable asset to this list.
I would like to add another non-technical, non regulatory view:
I have never witnessed or even heard of anyone being cited for not having a transponder check by the FAA. I have never seen it asked for on an Airworthiness inspection. I could say the same for the ELT and for several other critical things.
So if you are looking for something to "get away with", this is a good candidate.
I, like Stein, consider it penny wise to skip this check. I add further that it is stupid and unsafe. In today's flying environment both FAA controllers and many many of our fellow aviators rely immensely on the transponder output to keep traffic separated!!
So wake up guys!! Even though you only see a blinking light once in a while, the accurate operation of your transponder is critical to your safety and to all those with in collision distance.
Denis Walsh
denis.walsh(at)comcast.net (denis.walsh(at)comcast.net)
On 8Jun, 2012, at 9:57 , Stein Bruch wrote:
| Quote: | Gary is correct in the fact that unless you have a TC, you are not a “Mfgr” in the eyes of the FAA.
Not only that, but your “test equipment” must be calibrated to certain approved standards and be certified as currently in calibration. It’s also not as simple as verifying the codes and altitude readout in the transponder. You have to test the output frequency and a +/- range variation (+/- 3mHz), the suppression system, receiver sensitivity, peak output power, altitude readout, codes, etc.. If it’s a Mode S, you have to add in the Diversity test, the reply address, uplink formats, all call, squitter output for ES, and more.
It typically only costs $75-$125 to have it done the right way (and only about 15 minutes of time), so no reason to be pennywise on this particular part of the plane.
Just my 2 cents as usual,
Stein
===================================
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
===================================
cs.com
===================================
matronics.com/contribution
===================================
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:32 am Post subject: Bi-ennial transponder/encoder/static certifications |
|
|
Even with the proper checks, transponders seem to be a source of no end
of grief. Flew a trip last fall, all VFR, but went through SLC Class B
with clearance, after they had much trouble getting correct code to
display. (apparently it was showing with 1200 code instead of assigned
code). So on my way back I first called SLC center and they had no
problem with my transponder. On hand off to SLC approach they had same
issue as before. I learned they have a brand new radar installation,
which may explain why it saw something different from the Center's long
range radar. As soon as I got home, had transponder checked. (yes it was
in its first year after a certification). Sure enough, some portion of
the transponder had drifted a little out of alignment, got it fixed and
recertified. (and filed the work order in case I got any inquiry).
I know our local FAAST Team is bracing for a bunch of referrals to deal
with minor infractions. I can't see ATC or FSDO living with this policy
too long, because of the increased workload.
On 6/9/2012 6:22 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
| Quote: | I don't know that it's worth "trying to get away with" anything these
days, and having a transponder be INOP in any way could cause you many
headaches. As you probably already heard, the FAA is now on both our
backs and ATC's too, to report all infractions even minor. They're
even being heavy handed to a degree. You miss some radio calls while
flying under ATC control, you're busted, your Mode C stops working,
you're busted. You drift on assigned altitude a little and now they
aren't ALLOWED to give you the leeway and just chew you out and
grumble until you move out of their sector...or say "say altitude" as
a clue. These days, if you're flying in the system or controlling it,
you're being watched and if you mess up even a little you may have
some real 'splainin' to do and it can cost you hassles or suspensions.
So I guess I'd rather get the check and KNoW my transponder and
altimeter pass. I'll tag below my post, two from the Lancair list
recently. They had a couple of interesting incidents that showed the
new kinder FAA's attitude.
see below, Tim
|
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
|
_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
