barnett6088(at)msn.com
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 Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:08 am Post subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 06/22/12 |
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Jim
Is your aircraft high wing or low wing? If low wing your boost pump should be on. On my Lightning fuel comes out very fast with the pump on. Gary Barnett N335AL
| Quote: | Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 06/22/12
From: jh(at)gulftel.com
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:19:25 -0500
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: James Henderson <jh(at)gulftel.com>
Good Morning,
Re the gascolator on my 3300 engine. I never see more than a tablespoon or two drain when I tap my gascolator at preflight. By contrast, my Cessna would truly flow out. Please advise what I should expect as well as the proper interval to clean.
Many thanks,,,
Jim Henderson N910CJ in AL.
On Jun 23, 2012, at 2:00 AM, JabiruEngine-List Digest Server wrote:
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> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 06/22/12: 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:29 AM - Re: Fuel Pressure (FLYaDIVE)
> 2. 06:29 AM - Re: Fuel Pressure (Pete Krotje)
> 3. 08:26 AM - Re: Fuel Pressure (FLYaDIVE)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:29:17 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel Pressure
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
>
> Bobby:
>
> Ethanol does NOT make a transparent goop.
> Have you ever used or sealed your tanks with Silicone (RTV)?
> Have you ever used Teflon Tape on ANY fittings?
> How OLD was the fuel? Old fuel, especially MoGas goes through quite a few
> chemical changes and can clog up a system.
> SHUTTING OFF the fuel valve WILL cut OFF the fuel flow and will create a
> suction in the system so there should NOT be any free flow or great flow of
> fuel. It is doing what a shout off valve is designed to do. THAT is why
> you only got a two tablespoons of gas. Of course when you cracked the fuel
> line the fuel ran down your are - - -You broke the suction, you made the
> fuel flow.
>
> Fuel residue a.k.a. varnish can be removed with MEK.
>
> - Get a glass jar
> - Remove the screen
> - Fill the jar with MEK
> - Soak the screen in the MEK for 5 minutes
> - Blow out the screen with air - From the inside out
> - SPECIAL NOTE - DOES THE SCREEN HAVE PLASTIC? OF SO MEK
> WILL DESTROY THE PLASTIC/SCREEN
>
> Now - If you have this goop in the gascolator screen - Don't you think you
> would also have this goop INSIDE the carburetor!!! Don't Fly - CLEAN.
>
> I would also FLUSH - BOTH - Tanks - And replace with fresh gas. Do you
> have a center tank/header tank. If so, flush that also.
>
> You have a job ahead of you.
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 5:54 PM, <BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> List
>> Today I determined to find out what caused the fuel pressure drop. I shut
>> off the fuel valve and drained only about 2 tablespoons full of fuel out of
>> the gascolator - which I thought a little odd. When I removed the
>> gascolator it was full of fuel. The quick drain was partly plugged but
>> nothing that I could see that would cause that - only a few tiny grit
>> particles that I picked up with a white rag. I then removed the gasket and
>> screen and got fuel running down my elbow from downstream of the
>> gascolator. I wondered why it did not drain back thru the stainless steel
>> screen. I looked carefully at the screen in daylight and saw it was about
>> 80% blocked with a transparent goop that a degreaser had little effect on.
>> I cleaned it further with soap and water but finally blew it back from the
>> direction of flow and could see small particles flying off the screen as
>> the air nozzle hit it. I continued all around the screen until it was
>> clean.
>> I re-installed the screen and gascolator and ran up really good on both
>> tanks and then test flew.
>> My fuel pressure was back where it was and only dropped a little at full
>> throttle but never below 2.2 psi.
>> I believe the residue to be a left over of evaporated Ethanol fuel that
>> had been in my grandson's 5 gal. gas can for his Jon boat for over a year.
>> I saw the goop in the bottom of the can and rinsed it. Thinking that was
>> sufficient. It was not. My engine failed after putting the 5 gal. of fresh
>> fuel in the left tank back in December. Luckily it quit on taxi out and I
>> found out what it was. I cleaned and drained the tanks several times and
>> thought I had it all out. Apparently it was enough residue to gradually
>> coat the fine strainer in the gascolator.
>> I will watch closely and clean regularly for the next few months to see if
>> it returns.
>>
>> Thanks Again for all the helpful inputs
>>
>>
>> Bobby ( age 74 )
>> Zodiac 601 XL "B"
>> Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
>> Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
>> Bing Carb 260 Main & 285 Needle Jet
>> Status - Flying 154 hrs.
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:29:28 AM PST US
> From: "Pete Krotje" <pete(at)usjabiru.com>
> Subject: RE: Fuel Pressure
>
> Bobby,
>
>
> What you are describing is similar to what we have seen several times now in
> fuel tanks and carburetors from aircraft operated on auto fuel. There seems
> to be a stringy, mucus like substance that forms in the auto gas that
> eventually winds up in filters, gascolators and carburetors. In two of the
> cases the result was a fatal crash and when carbs were sent to us for
> evaluation we found this similar sticky, slimy substance in the carb which
> prevented proper functioning of the slide.
>
>
> At my forum last spring at Sun N Fun there was a biochemist in the room who
> told us that the substance was a bacterial growth that occurs in the
> boundary layer between ethanol (after it absorbs enough water to separate
> out of the gas) and the gasoline. I don't know if that is true or not.
>
>
> We've seen other engines that were operated on auto gas where the internals
> were covered with a sticky black substance that looked and smelled like
> caramelized sugar. We've seen other aircraft where even non ethanol gas was
> dissolving the tank sealant.
>
>
> At one of our local stations here that advertised non ethanol gas I tested a
> sample (after my pickup truck began running poorly) and found the non
> ethanol gas to contain about 20% ethanol. The station owners were unaware
> and apparently the delivery got screwed up and too much ethanol was added at
> the terminal.
>
>
> The point is that the quality of auto gas at the point of its dispensing
> (the pump) is poorly controlled. Also, the effect of auto gas (with today's
> ever changing mixture of additives) in aircraft engines has not been
> extensively studied. I see some of the results of what seems in my opinion
> to be an escalating problem but my opinion is not based on a very large
> sample of properly collected data. I've just seen the aftermath of some of
> the contamination similar to what Bobby describes.
>
>
> Pete
>
>
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 6:28 AM
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel Pressure
>
>
> Bobby:
>
>
> Ethanol does NOT make a transparent goop.
>
> Have you ever used or sealed your tanks with Silicone (RTV)?
>
> Have you ever used Teflon Tape on ANY fittings?
>
> How OLD was the fuel? Old fuel, especially MoGas goes through quite a few
> chemical changes and can clog up a system.
>
> SHUTTING OFF the fuel valve WILL cut OFF the fuel flow and will create a
> suction in the system so there should NOT be any free flow or great flow of
> fuel. It is doing what a shout off valve is designed to do. THAT is why
> you only got a two tablespoons of gas. Of course when you cracked the fuel
> line the fuel ran down your are - - -You broke the suction, you made the
> fuel flow.
>
>
> Fuel residue a.k.a. varnish can be removed with MEK.
>
> * Get a glass jar
> * Remove the screen
> * Fill the jar with MEK
> * Soak the screen in the MEK for 5 minutes
> * Blow out the screen with air - From the inside out
> * SPECIAL NOTE - DOES THE SCREEN HAVE PLASTIC? OF SO MEK WILL DESTROY
> THE PLASTIC/SCREEN
>
> Now - If you have this goop in the gascolator screen - Don't you think you
> would also have this goop INSIDE the carburetor!!! Don't Fly - CLEAN.
>
>
> I would also FLUSH - BOTH - Tanks - And replace with fresh gas. Do you
> have a center tank/header tank. If so, flush that also.
>
>
> You have a job ahead of you.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 5:54 PM, <BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net> wrote:
>
> List
> Today I determined to find out what caused the fuel pressure drop. I shut
> off the fuel valve and drained only about 2 tablespoons full of fuel out of
> the gascolator - which I thought a little odd. When I removed the gascolator
> it was full of fuel. The quick drain was partly plugged but nothing that I
> could see that would cause that - only a few tiny grit particles that I
> picked up with a white rag. I then removed the gasket and screen and got
> fuel running down my elbow from downstream of the gascolator. I wondered why
> it did not drain back thru the stainless steel screen. I looked carefully at
> the screen in daylight and saw it was about 80% blocked with a transparent
> goop that a degreaser had little effect on. I cleaned it further with soap
> and water but finally blew it back from the direction of flow and could see
> small particles flying off the screen as the air nozzle hit it. I continued
> all around the screen until it was clean.
> I re-installed the screen and gascolator and ran up really good on both
> tanks and then test flew.
> My fuel pressure was back where it was and only dropped a little at full
> throttle but never below 2.2 psi.
> I believe the residue to be a left over of evaporated Ethanol fuel that had
> been in my grandson's 5 gal. gas can for his Jon boat for over a year. I saw
> the goop in the bottom of the can and rinsed it. Thinking that was
> sufficient. It was not. My engine failed after putting the 5 gal. of fresh
> fuel in the left tank back in December. Luckily it quit on taxi out and I
> found out what it was. I cleaned and drained the tanks several times and
> thought I had it all out. Apparently it was enough residue to gradually coat
> the fine strainer in the gascolator.
> I will watch closely and clean regularly for the next few months to see if
> it returns.
>
> Thanks Again for all the helpful inputs
>
>
> Bobby ( age 74 )
> Zodiac 601 XL "B"
> Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
> Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
> Bing Carb 260 Main & 285 Needle Jet
> Status - Flying 154 hrs.
>
>
> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:26:31 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Fuel Pressure
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
>
> Very interesting Pete:
>
> I did not think of the bacterial growth issue. I know that kerosene has a
> bacterial growth and there is an additive you can purchase at places like
> Home Depot to kill the bacteria. I wonder if it will work with MoGas?
>
> Something else to consider... What will be happening to our cars when the
> EPA and obama increase the level of ethanol to 15 and 20% in the next five
> years?
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Pete Krotje <pete(at)usjabiru.com> wrote:
>
>> Bobby,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> What you are describing is similar to what we have seen several times now
>> in fuel tanks and carburetors from aircraft operated on auto fuel. There
>> seems to be a stringy, mucus like substance that forms in the auto gas th
> at
>> eventually winds up in filters, gascolators and carburetors. In two of t
> he
>> cases the result was a fatal crash and when carbs were sent to us for
>> evaluation we found this similar sticky, slimy substance in the carb whic
> h
>> prevented proper functioning of the slide.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> At my forum last spring at Sun N Fun there was a biochemist in the room
>> who told us that the substance was a bacterial growth that occurs in the
>> boundary layer between ethanol (after it absorbs enough water to separate
>> out of the gas) and the gasoline. I don=92t know if that is true or not.
> ***
>> *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> We=92ve seen other engines that were operated on auto gas where the
>> internals were covered with a sticky black substance that looked and
>> smelled like caramelized sugar. We=92ve seen other aircraft where even n
> on
>> ethanol gas was dissolving the tank sealant.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> At one of our local stations here that advertised non ethanol gas I teste
> d
>> a sample (after my pickup truck began running poorly) and found the non
>> ethanol gas to contain about 20% ethanol. The station owners were unawar
> e
>> and apparently the delivery got screwed up and too much ethanol was added
>> at the terminal. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> The point is that the quality of auto gas at the point of its dispensing
>> (the pump) is poorly controlled. Also, the effect of auto gas (with
>> today=92s ever changing mixture of additives) in aircraft engines has not
>> been extensively studied. I see some of the results of what seems in my
>> opinion to be an escalating problem but my opinion is not based on a very
>> large sample of properly collected data. I=92ve just seen the aftermath
> of
>> some of the contamination similar to what Bobby describes.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Pete****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *FLYaDIVE
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 22, 2012 6:28 AM
>> *To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Fuel Pressure****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Bobby:****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Ethanol does NOT make a transparent goop. ****
>>
>> Have you ever used or sealed your tanks with Silicone (RTV)? ****
>>
>> Have you ever used Teflon Tape on ANY fittings?****
>>
>> How OLD was the fuel? Old fuel, especially MoGas goes through quite a fe
> w
>> chemical changes and can clog up a system.****
>>
>> SHUTTING OFF the fuel valve WILL cut OFF the fuel flow and will create a
>> suction in the system so there should NOT be any free flow or great flow
> of
>> fuel. It is doing what a shout off valve is designed to do. THAT is why
>> you only got a two tablespoons of gas. Of course when you cracked the fu
> el
>> line the fuel ran down your are - - -You broke the suction, you made the
>> fuel flow.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Fuel residue a.k.a. varnish can be removed with MEK. ****
>>
>> - Get a glass jar****
>> - Remove the screen****
>> - Fill the jar with MEK****
>> - Soak the screen in the MEK for 5 minutes****
>> - Blow out the screen with air - From the inside out****
>> - SPECIAL NOTE - DOES THE SCREEN HAVE PLASTIC? OF SO MEK
>> WILL DESTROY THE PLASTIC/SCREEN****
>>
>> Now - If you have this goop in the gascolator screen - Don't you think yo
> u
>> would also have this goop INSIDE the carburetor!!! Don't Fly - CLEAN.***
> *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I would also FLUSH - BOTH - Tanks - And replace with fresh gas. Do you
>> have a center tank/header tank. If so, flush that also.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> You have a job ahead of you. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Barry****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 5:54 PM, <BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net> wrote:****
>>
>> List
>> Today I determined to find out what caused the fuel pressure drop. I shut
>> off the fuel valve and drained only about 2 tablespoons full of fuel out
> of
>> the gascolator - which I thought a little odd. When I removed the
>> gascolator it was full of fuel. The quick drain was partly plugged but
>> nothing that I could see that would cause that - only a few tiny grit
>> particles that I picked up with a white rag. I then removed the gasket an
> d
>> screen and got fuel running down my elbow from downstream of the
>> gascolator. I wondered why it did not drain back thru the stainless steel
>> screen. I looked carefully at the screen in daylight and saw it was about
>> 80% blocked with a transparent goop that a degreaser had little effect on
> ..
>> I cleaned it further with soap and water but finally blew it back from th
> e
>> direction of flow and could see small particles flying off the screen as
>> the air nozzle hit it. I continued all around the screen until it was
>> clean.
>> I re-installed the screen and gascolator and ran up really good on both
>> tanks and then test flew.
>> My fuel pressure was back where it was and only dropped a little at full
>> throttle but never below 2.2 psi.
>> I believe the residue to be a left over of evaporated Ethanol fuel that
>> had been in my grandson's 5 gal. gas can for his Jon boat for over a year
> ..
>> I saw the goop in the bottom of the can and rinsed it. Thinking that was
>> sufficient. It was not. My engine failed after putting the 5 gal. of fres
> h
>> fuel in the left tank back in December. Luckily it quit on taxi out and I
>> found out what it was. I cleaned and drained the tanks several times and
>> thought I had it all out. Apparently it was enough residue to gradually
>> coat the fine strainer in the gascolator.
>> I will watch closely and clean regularly for the next few months to see i
> f
>> it returns.
>>
>> Thanks Again for all the helpful inputs
>>
>>
>> Bobby ( age 74 )
>> Zodiac 601 XL "B"
>> Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
>> Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
>> Bing Carb 260 Main & 285 Needle Jet
>> Status - Flying 154 hrs.
>>
>> ****
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L
> ist*
>>
>> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> **
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *
>>
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