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philperry9
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381
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 Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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Does anyone have any tips or documentation with regards to the installation of SkyBolt's fasteners. The included documenation does an okay job of detailing an RV-8 mockup, but it's nothing like the 10.
Any tips, documentation, or photos would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Phil
[quote][b]
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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Hey Phil,
I’ve done several –8’s now and the original –10 with skybolts (or camlocs) around the firewall, with hinge pins on the horizontal joints. Some of the 8’s owners got all floating firewall receptacles – I don’t recommend that since that allows the gap to open between the cowl and the firewall. I think they recommend only using the floating ones near the horizontal to aid in installation after complete.
I don’t like the “ears” that come with the new kits to install as a flange along the firewall. It’s relatively so much easier to install a solid flange, then drill a pilot hole through the cowl into the flange – match drilled, done. Vs. trying to find the damn center of the pre-punched “ears” with their jig, flashlight, etc.
Later, – Lew
[quote][b]
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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:42 pm Post subject: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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I installed the SkyBolts on my RV-4, but to be honest with you, I like the clean lines of the Vans Hinge cowl installation better than the silver fasteners showing every few inches. To each his own, though...
-Mike Kraus
Do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
On May 21, 2012, at 7:16 PM, <lewgall(at)charter.net (lewgall(at)charter.net)> wrote:
[quote]
Hey Phil,
I’ve done several –8’s now and the original –10 with skybolts (or camlocs) around the firewall, with hinge pins on the horizontal joints. Some of the 8’s owners got all floating firewall receptacles – I don’t recommend that since that allows the gap to open between the cowl and the firewall. I think they recommend only using the floating ones near the horizontal to aid in installation after complete.
I don’t like the “ears” that come with the new kits to install as a flange along the firewall. It’s relatively so much easier to install a solid flange, then drill a pilot hole through the cowl into the flange – match drilled, done. Vs. trying to find the damn center of the pre-punched “ears” with their jig, flashlight, etc.
Later, – Lew
| Quote: |
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://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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cs.com
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matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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philperry9
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:11 pm Post subject: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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I don't care how they look. I just want them to work.
The RV10 kit is a puzzle.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 21, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)> wrote:
[quote]I installed the SkyBolts on my RV-4, but to be honest with you, I like the clean lines of the Vans Hinge cowl installation better than the silver fasteners showing every few inches. To each his own, though...
-Mike Kraus
Do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
On May 21, 2012, at 7:16 PM, <lewgall(at)charter.net (lewgall(at)charter.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hey Phil,
I’ve done several –8’s now and the original –10 with skybolts (or camlocs) around the firewall, with hinge pins on the horizontal joints. Some of the 8’s owners got all floating firewall receptacles – I don’t recommend that since that allows the gap to open between the cowl and the firewall. I think they recommend only using the floating ones near the horizontal to aid in installation after complete.
I don’t like the “ears” that come with the new kits to install as a flange along the firewall. It’s relatively so much easier to install a solid flange, then drill a pilot hole through the cowl into the flange – match drilled, done. Vs. trying to find the damn center of the pre-punched “ears” with their jig, flashlight, etc.
Later, – Lew
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://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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cs.com
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matronics.com/contribution
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:38 pm Post subject: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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Phil,
I have the skybolt style fastiners that can be adjusted to optimize height. Not sure if they are skybolt or not. I think they ran me ~$500.00. I have/had 4 RV's one was standard Vans Pins & Hinges and my -10 we used the Skybolt style fastiners and on both my 6A and my recent build of an RV-8A I used S/S screws and washers. I do like the SB fastiners but they are expensive, heavy and when the bits & pieces fail you you generally don’t have a hand full in your tool box or hangar. What I have come to like about the S/S screws is they are light, inexpensive and available just about anywhere. They work as well as the SB fastiners but with a fraction of the cost or effort.
Skybolt style
[img]cid:image003.jpg(at)01CD3780.B1218D00[/img]
S/S screws on my 6A
[img]cid:image005.jpg(at)01CD3780.B1218D00[/img]
Unpainted RV-8A with S/S screws and a special smaller washer. Painted photos due in 6 weeks 
[img]cid:image007.jpg(at)01CD3780.B1218D00[/img]
I just re-read your email as I assume I am too late with my comments. Good luck with your install.
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillip Perry
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 3:54 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation
Does anyone have any tips or documentation with regards to the installation of SkyBolt's fasteners. The included documenation does an okay job of detailing an RV-8 mockup, but it's nothing like the 10.
Any tips, documentation, or photos would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Phil ==============[/b][/quote] V10-List Email Forum -[/b][/quote] >[/b][/quote] :p>[/b][/quote] /o:p>[/b][/quote] tor?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/b][/quote] ==============[/b][/quote] bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -[/b][/quote] :p>[/b][/quote] tp://forums.matronics.com[/b][/quote] ==============[/b][/quote] bsp; - List Contribution Web Site -[/b][/quote] e> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.[/b][/quote] bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/b][/quote] ==============[/b] [/quote]
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Mike Whisky
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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I just removed all cam locks because I needed to do some sanding and didn't want to get them sanded too.
Questions did you paint the cowling with the cam locks installed or not?
I am worried that once painted the paint will come off if you install them.
Any advice or suggestions?
Thank you
Michael
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RV-10 builder (flying)
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:20 am Post subject: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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Removed the fastiners, painted, waited for some extra dry time then reinstalled.
Robin
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Mike Whisky
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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Thanks Robin!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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philperry9
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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Yeah, I'm planning on leaving the retaining ring off until the aircraft is painted. That way I can remove the grommets and studs for painting. Then install them permanently with the retainers in place after the paint is dry.
Phil
On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com (robin(at)painttheweb.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com (robin(at)painttheweb.com)>
Removed the fastiners, painted, waited for some extra dry time then reinstalled.
Robin
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AirMike
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:16 am Post subject: Fasteners - Installation |
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I like the sky bolts, but I only put them across the top of the cowl. Their instructions are poor, but mind the recommended spacing that they suggest and you will be ok. They are very expensive, but to my mind worth it in THIS AREA ONLY. They are good because they save a lot of time removing the cowl when you are flight testing, when you should remove the cowl after each flight.
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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I just had an email inquiring about my comment on installing the solid flange around the firewall being easier than using the "ears" supplied with the new skybolt kits.
I briefly read it in my email screener, then inadvertently deleted it. So here's hoping you get this as a general post.
Yes, you just rivet it around the firewall, then when your cowl is fit, simply measure where you want to put the skybolts and pilot drill through the cowl and flange -- perfect fit.
Originally I think everybody had to install their own flange (the kit was just male/female fasteners,collars, retaining rings), some scalloped it out, others didn't -- your preference for weight, easier to bend to fit if scalloped, etc. See Tim's site for pictures, specs on the aluminum, where to order it. The ears work OK, but personally, I don't see them as an improvement.
I hope this addressed your inquiry, if not, send it again or post it here for other feedback.
Later, - Lew
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_________________
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed ! |
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whd721
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:39 am Post subject: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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Lew,
I was the original inquirer.
The issue I am struggling with is using the "Solid Flange" installation using Skybolt. I talked to Skybolt and was informed that using solid flange (Aluminum strip) was a problem due to the angle at the top of the firewall (~15degrees).
I am working on a RV9A. I follow the RV10 list as most of the experienced builders post there.
My concern is a using a modified cowl ( I bought a project) which may be too short. I am exploring the possibility of using the AL strip to extend the cowl by 1/2 to 3/4 inch. I will not receive my engine from Lyc for another month or so.
Once I hang the engine the cowl length issue will be clearer.
Any advice or guidance would be appreciated.
Bill DeLacey
On Jun 20, 2012, at 5:34 PM, Lew Gallagher wrote:
| Quote: |
I just had an email inquiring about my comment on installing the solid flange around the firewall being easier than using the "ears" supplied with the new skybolt kits.
I briefly read it in my email screener, then inadvertently deleted it. So here's hoping you get this as a general post.
Yes, you just rivet it around the firewall, then when your cowl is fit, simply measure where you want to put the skybolts and pilot drill through the cowl and flange -- perfect fit.
Originally I think everybody had to install their own flange (the kit was just male/female fasteners,collars, retaining rings), some scalloped it out, others didn't -- your preference for weight, easier to bend to fit if scalloped, etc. See Tim's site for pictures, specs on the aluminum, where to order it. The ears work OK, but personally, I don't see them as an improvement.
I hope this addressed your inquiry, if not, send it again or post it here for other feedback.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376175#376175
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whd721
RV9A
Beaverton, OR |
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:14 am Post subject: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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Hey Bill,
Let me start with, I'm not familiar with the -9A, (~15 degrees), so here
goes for what it's worth.
The solid flange with scallop cut would be easy to bend the individual
scallops to whatever angle works.
Another suggestion about the "maybe too short cowl": several times I have
extended the aft edge of the cowl itself for guys who want the "Swiss watch"
fit, but had already cut it too short. I sand a shallow on the inner
surface of the edge at least 1/2 inch wide (think of the edge of sheetrock
where the joining tape will fill) so that you can glass in a strip of
fiberglass cloth that overlaps from the original cowl in the shallow to a
little beyond what you need on the new aft edge. Let it harden overnight
then come back with resin/cabosil to finish the outer surface flush. Sand
inner and outer surfaces flush so that you have your extension on the aft
edge with the glass cloth bonding the new edge to the original cowl. Done.
And do this before drilling for the skybolts.
Don't get impatient; mount the engine, prop, and spinner before doing any
of this since the cowl is fit from the spinner back.
Hope this helps.
Later, - Lew
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crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed ! |
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bill.peyton
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 198
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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You should read the thread on VAF regarding the installation using the newer "gray" cowling. It is posted here
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=86547&highlight=skybolt
There are issues with the new cowling that require grinding out around each one of the fasteners for clearance. In spite of the fact that I went back to the hinge, I should have made the top edge installation work. Using the hinges on the sides makes for a much nicer and stronger joint. The hinge pins remove very easily. Around the top is the area that really sees and improvement in regards to removing and re-installing the cowling. The top hinges, due to the curvature, prevent you from lifting directly upwards to remove the cowl. installing the Skybolt fasteners on the top would be a great improvement.
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WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC |
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:37 pm Post subject: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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Yes, mostly. I'm assuming with the SS screws you are using an aluminum
strip with nutplates on the inside of cowling?
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com> wrote:
[quote] Correct, the locks are *along all the edges of the top cowl*. I forgot
which locks I got but they are the ones that allow you to adjust for
height. On the 8A I used all #SS screws & washers in place of the locks.
Saved $500 and some weight. Plus much easier & cheaper to replace in the
field.****
The Piano hinges are on the sides of the lower cowl and have damaged some
of the fuse paint when taking on / off the cowl so many times (mostly due
to the SJ cowl). If I had made the nose gear slot longer it may have been
easier to drop the lower cowl down enough to better position it for
installation without smacking the fuse with the shark tooth like piano
hinges.****
Did that answer your Q's?****
** **
Robin****
** **
*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kelly McMullen
*Sent:* Thursday, June 28, 2012 5:50 PM
*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: Re: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation****
** **
Robin, just trying to comprehend what you said and what I see in the
photos. Looks like you have Skybolts or some other camlock fasterners over
the top and out to the front, with piano hinge for the bottom half attach
to firewall. Is that correct, or are my eyes fooling me?****
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com>
wrote:****
Here is our solution for the -10. Works well. I opted for S/S screws on
the 8A to save $, weight and simplify the build.****
On the -10 especially I have had issues with the lower side cowl piano
hinges damaging the fuse paint when removing & installing the lower cowl. A
longer nose wheel slot would have been beneficial to ease all the on/off.*
***
Absolutely don’t use Skybolts on the underside of the cowl (IMHO). Just
too much vibration, oil etc… for them to hold up long term. Ask me how I
know?****
****
Robin****
****
http://www.painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/SjCowl.aspx ****
[image: Description:
http://www.painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/Images/SJ_Cowl/Cowl-Fitting-6.jpg]
****
[image: Description:
http://www.painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/Images/SJ_Cowl/100_2448.jpg]*
***
[image: Description:
http://www.painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/Images/SJ_Cowl/100_2453.jpg]*
***
[image: Description:
http://www.painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/Images/SJ_Cowl/100_2450.jpg]*
***
[image: Description:
http://www.painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/Images/SJ_Cowl/Cowl_Left.jpg]
****
****
****
--
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD |
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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Correction:
Not Hellman Washers. They are more famous for their mayonnaise.
We use Tinnerman Washers
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/nas549washers2.php
Of note, we didn’t want as large a flange on the Tinnerman washers (especially on the spinner) so we took about a hundred washers and laced them on an appropriate size bolt then used a grinding wheel to remove about half the flange. This took less than 5 minutes to make 100 custom Tinnerman washers. One can use standard washers, we just thought the reduced flange looked better for this application.
[img]cid:image008.jpg(at)01CD5617.EDADCF80[/img]
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 8:03 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation
| Quote: | | Exactly. Used #8 with hellman ? Washers. always wanted to try next larger size and a couple fewer sets but didn't. Robin Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote: |
Yes, mostly. I'm assuming with the SS screws you are using an aluminum strip with nutplates on the inside of cowling?
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com (robin(at)painttheweb.com)> wrote:
Correct, the locks are along all the edges of the top cowl. I forgot which locks I got but they are the ones that allow you to adjust for height. On the 8A I used all #SS screws & washers in place of the locks. Saved $500 and some weight. Plus much easier & cheaper to replace in the field.
The Piano hinges are on the sides of the lower cowl and have damaged some of the fuse paint when taking on / off the cowl so many times (mostly due to the SJ cowl). If I had made the nose gear slot longer it may have been easier to drop the lower cowl down enough to better position it for installation without smacking the fuse with the shark tooth like piano hinges.
Did that answer your Q's?
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 5:50 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation
Robin, just trying to comprehend what you said and what I see in the photos. Looks like you have Skybolts or some other camlock fasterners over the top and out to the front, with piano hinge for the bottom half attach to firewall. Is that correct, or are my eyes fooling me?
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com (robin(at)painttheweb.com)> wrote:
Here is our solution for the -10. Works well. I opted for S/S screws on the 8A to save $, weight and simplify the build.
On the -10 especially I have had issues with the lower side cowl piano hinges damaging the fuse paint when removing & installing the lower cowl. A longer nose wheel slot would have been beneficial to ease all the on/off.
Absolutely don’t use Skybolts on the underside of the cowl (IMHO). Just too much vibration, oil etc… for them to hold up long term. Ask me how I know?
Robin
http://www.painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/SjCowl.aspx
[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CD5617.3EBD1CB0[/img]
[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CD5617.3EBD1CB0[/img]
[img]cid:image003.jpg(at)01CD5617.3EBD1CB0[/img]
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[img]cid:image005.jpg(at)01CD5617.3EBD1CB0[/img]
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation |
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Another way to do the spinner is to take #6 Tinnerman washers and drill them out to take a #8 screw.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 7:55 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation
Correction:
Not Hellman Washers. They are more famous for their mayonnaise.
We use Tinnerman Washers
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/nas549washers2.php
Of note, we didn’t want as large a flange on the Tinnerman washers (especially on the spinner) so we took about a hundred washers and laced them on an appropriate size bolt then used a grinding wheel to remove about half the flange. This took less than 5 minutes to make 100 custom Tinnerman washers. One can use standard washers, we just thought the reduced flange looked better for this application.
[img]cid:image006.jpg(at)01CD5638.3529C6A0[/img]
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 8:03 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation
| Quote: | | Exactly. Used #8 with hellman ? Washers. always wanted to try next larger size and a couple fewer sets but didn't. Robin Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote: |
Yes, mostly. I'm assuming with the SS screws you are using an aluminum strip with nutplates on the inside of cowling?
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com (robin(at)painttheweb.com)> wrote:
Correct, the locks are along all the edges of the top cowl. I forgot which locks I got but they are the ones that allow you to adjust for height. On the 8A I used all #SS screws & washers in place of the locks. Saved $500 and some weight. Plus much easier & cheaper to replace in the field.
The Piano hinges are on the sides of the lower cowl and have damaged some of the fuse paint when taking on / off the cowl so many times (mostly due to the SJ cowl). If I had made the nose gear slot longer it may have been easier to drop the lower cowl down enough to better position it for installation without smacking the fuse with the shark tooth like piano hinges.
Did that answer your Q's?
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 5:50 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Skybolt Fasteners - Installation
Robin, just trying to comprehend what you said and what I see in the photos. Looks like you have Skybolts or some other camlock fasterners over the top and out to the front, with piano hinge for the bottom half attach to firewall. Is that correct, or are my eyes fooling me?
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com (robin(at)painttheweb.com)> wrote:
Here is our solution for the -10. Works well. I opted for S/S screws on the 8A to save $, weight and simplify the build.
On the -10 especially I have had issues with the lower side cowl piano hinges damaging the fuse paint when removing & installing the lower cowl. A longer nose wheel slot would have been beneficial to ease all the on/off.
Absolutely don’t use Skybolts on the underside of the cowl (IMHO). Just too much vibration, oil etc… for them to hold up long term. Ask me how I know?
Robin
http://www.painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/SjCowl.aspx
[img]cid:image007.jpg(at)01CD5638.3529C6A0[/img]
[img]cid:image008.jpg(at)01CD5638.3529C6A0[/img]
[img]cid:image009.jpg(at)01CD5638.3529C6A0[/img]
[img]cid:image010.jpg(at)01CD5638.3529C6A0[/img]
[img]cid:image011.jpg(at)01CD5638.3529C6A0[/img]
--
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