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vanncovi
Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Holly Springs, NC
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 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:57 am Post subject: ignition problem |
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Hey Guys, I'm a lurker with a problem. I recently had an ignition problem with my 912 uls. The right side of the dual ignition is not firing at all when cold and very little when at operating temp. I know this can be an expensive problem. I have new plugs. This happened suddenly. Flew great one day and discovered the problem during preflight the next morning. This is an older rebuilt engine. I have 200 trouble free hours on it. I have yet to begin trouble shooting. Any ideas would be appreciated. Can the work on the coils be done without removing the engine. Thanks, Vann, North Carolina, N701EV
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:53 am Post subject: Re: ignition problem |
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Hi van,
A common problem is a loose or broken wire up on the ignition module plugs.
Check those really well. Pull on each on to see if it comes out of the plug or may be broken under the wire insulation. Follow the wires as one may have rubed through on something and is broken. If this doesn't work out then swap the ignition module plugs A for B at the connectors. If the problem stays on the affected side then it is an issue after the ignition modules. If it changes sides then it is a problem before the modules. In the later case you will need to get and ohm meter and the Rotax Heavy Maint. Manual and look under the ignition system section and do a little testing at the module plugs that go back towards the coils.
It's usually just a bad wire up at the module plugs so look carefully.
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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:59 am Post subject: ignition problem |
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Do the cheap thing first, look for bad grounds. It's amazing how a circuit can keep working until the last little bit of contact is corroded. Sometimes a humid night is all it takes.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 4:56 AM, vann covington <vanncovi(at)yahoo.com (vanncovi(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hey Guys, I'm a lurker with a problem. I recently had an ignition problem with my 912 uls. The right side of the dual ignition is not firing at all when cold and very little when at operating temp. I know this can be an expensive problem. I have new plugs. This happened suddenly. Flew great one day and discovered the problem during preflight the next morning. This is an older rebuilt engine. I have 200 trouble free hours on it. I have yet to begin trouble shooting. Any ideas would be appreciated. Can the work on the coils be done without removing the engine. Thanks, Vann, North Carolina, N701EV
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
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Mk IIIC
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It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
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Alan Carter
Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject: ignition problem |
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Hello.
I am new to the Forum, i can not find you problem on the forum, I have just purchased a Europa with a 914.
I have detail my Mag problem in the Europa list.
Basically i had a mag drop of about +500 on the Key left position and rough running.
1. i had to determine which mag was on the left key position, so removed all the top HT leads, run the engine and on mine when i turned the key from Both to Left, the engine stopped.
so now i had determined the “L†position is driving the Lower Cylinders, and “R†the upper cylinders spark plugs.
2. So my problem was on the “L†ie the bottom ,so traced back to the Mag Coils and now determined which set of Coils drive the lower plugs.
3.So now i know my engine a little better, start with the simple, swap top plugs to bottom, or replace all 4 bottom plugs, Check engine, same problem.
4.Swap Caps top to bottom or “replace bottom caps,(ie at £33 each) i don,think soâ€. Check engine, same problem.
5.Swap HT leads top with bottom, To much trouble, best here to buy some lead 2 meters cost about £ 25 , a real rip off, car HT lead is less than £1 a meter. I paid £25.
6.Changing the HT leads, if you problem is with the leads that go to the top set of mag coils you can get at them.
However if you problem is with the HT leads that go to the lower Mag coil set , it a Pigs Ear of a job, you have to un bolt the induction manifold and lift or remove it , to get at the HT leads or the Coils.
So now you have managed to put new leads on, (either the Top or the Bottom according to you problem) Check the engine, the B**** problem is still there.
7. So now do it all over again, this time you have more nuts to undo, and the two Coils you have already established as the area or trouble , Now swap the HT leads over in these coils.
Run the engine, now if you problem was originally on the Left mag, but now it is the Right mag, you have the little blighter,
So replace the Faulty Coil , put it all back together, run the engine and all is well, Coil is about £275
Time from start to Finish say 8 hour lot of trial and Error fault tracing.
So as to know my engine, i have used coloured cable ties on the cables and plug caps, and marked my Key position with a Red and Green marker
Mine is “L†Key position RED and all cables and caps with Red Ties. (bottom plugs)
“R†Key position Green and all cables and caps with Green Ties (top plugs)
So i know which is which next time
The two Black boxes the Ignition A and B ECU you can swap these over , just make sure you mark the wires first.
However as far as i know when one of these go, the engine will not go on that side, or its really runs rough, more often a coil than this.
Me , this is my first Aeroplane, i just now a little from motor cycles , but i fixed mine
For me it would have been engineer , £1 per mile travelling so £300 , then say £300 for doing the job and £300 for the part so a £1000 about
Alan
From: vann covington (vanncovi(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:56 AM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: ignition problem
Hey Guys, I'm a lurker with a problem. I recently had an ignition problem with my 912 uls. The right side of the dual ignition is not firing at all when cold and very little when at operating temp. I know this can be an expensive problem. I have new plugs. This happened suddenly. Flew great one day and discovered the problem during preflight the next morning. This is an older rebuilt engine. I have 200 trouble free hours on it. I have yet to begin trouble shooting. Any ideas would be appreciated. Can the work on the coils be done without removing the engine. Thanks, Vann, North Carolina, N701EV
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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vanncovi
Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Holly Springs, NC
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: ignition problem |
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Thanks, guys for the ideas. I will give the wiring a thorough check before I get too worried about my wallet.
Vann, N701EV
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vanncovi
Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Holly Springs, NC
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:26 am Post subject: ignition problem |
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Just wanted to thank everyone for there advice in tracking down my ignition problem on my 912. As you may recall one half of the of the dual ignition was completely dead and i was worried that it may be and expensive part. I found a broken wire that was originally soldered in place. Replaced it with the proper pin without solder and i'm air worthy once again. Can't believe how I miss that plane when she's down. Thanks again.
Vann Covington, N701EV, Holly Springs, NC
[quote][b]
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:51 am Post subject: ignition problem |
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Vann:
It is ALWAYS the simple thing that will bite you in the end. Lesson learned - DO NOT SOLDER - Well for every rule (AC43-13.. do not solder) there is an exception - Yes, you can solder as long as it does not create what is know as a HARD-SPOT. Not a hard-point that is something else 
The wire MUST be supported by the insulation and sufficient enough to keep the solder joint free of movement. Also invest in the proper tools for crimping pins and connectors. The stuff Home Depot sells is NOT the correct tools.
I have replaced dozens upon dozens of bad crimps that resulted in electrical problems.
Another Barry Trick - Use Dielectric Grease on connection, especially those outside of the cockpit and exposed to the elements.
Barry
On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 8:25 AM, vann covington <vanncovi(at)yahoo.com (vanncovi(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]Just wanted to thank everyone for there advice in tracking down my ignition problem on my 912. As you may recall one half of the of the dual ignition was completely dead and i was worried that it may be and expensive part. I found a broken wire that was originally soldered in place. Replaced it with the proper pin without solder and i'm air worthy once again. Can't believe how I miss that plane when she's down. Thanks again.
Vann Covington, N701EV, Holly Springs, NC
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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vanncovi
Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Holly Springs, NC
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: ignition problem |
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Thanks Barry,
Good idea about the grease. I'll pick some up.
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