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entecrj(at)sbcglobal.net
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:17 am Post subject: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly |
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Carlos:
Did you use a 10mm radius on the bottom wing skin?
Russell
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++++++++++++++++++++++++When I put the front side skins in place (just to have an idea of what it would look like), I noticed the interference between the side skins, heel support and floor (the rolled end of the floor).CarlosCH601-HD, plans
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carlossa52(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:25 am Post subject: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly |
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yup, checked again last night: cut a piece of paper and put it on top - exactly 10 cm radius.
On 10 July 2012 10:14, Russell Johnson <entecrj(at)sbcglobal.net (entecrj(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
[quote]Carlos:
Did you use a 10mm radius on the bottom wing skin?
Russell
[b]
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jlatimer1(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:47 am Post subject: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly |
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Carlos,
I've enclosed 2 photos (one for the right side and one for the left side) of my HDS in the area you are having problems with. I don't remember having the same problem you are having. I did have to make the center wing nose skin 3 times for other problems. I kept leaving too much gap between it and the front fuselage skins.
Not sure this helps but it lets you look at some more photos.
Jerry
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carlossa52(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:27 am Post subject: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly |
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Jerry, nice photos - and photos of this area are relatively rare, thanks!
On 10 July 2012 10:44, Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net (jlatimer1(at)cox.net)> wrote:
[quote]Carlos,
I've enclosed 2 photos (one for the right side and one for the left side) of my HDS in the area you are having problems with. I don't remember having the same problem you are having. I did have to make the center wing nose skin 3 times for other problems. I kept leaving too much gap between it and the front fuselage skins.
Not sure this helps but it lets you look at some more photos.
Jerry[b]
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carlossa52(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:46 am Post subject: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly |
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I was raised and educated in metric, and can talk imperial (with a bit of an accent).And can make mistakes in any of these systems.
Like this one.
You ask if I used 10 mm, I reply, yessir, 10 cm.
Reducing the radius will remove a bunch of material and eliminate the problem.
A huge thank you to you Russell !!!!!!!!
Carlos
On 10 July 2012 11:11, Russell Johnson <entecrj(at)sbcglobal.net (entecrj(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
[quote] Did you use MM or CM?
1 centimeter = 0.393700787 inches 1 millimeter = 0.0393700787 inches
--- On Tue, 7/10/12, Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com (carlossa52(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[b]
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steve.freeman(at)syntaxds
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:52 am Post subject: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly |
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This brings back some memories! Does ZAC still fully support the HDS model?
If you have not already done so I believe there is a modification to use the new spring gear from the XL/650 on the HDS. I promise you…having done both, if it is not too late to modify you might want to consider this. The new main landing gear design is superior to what is on the HDS. Don’t get me wrong, the HDS gear is fine, it is just the new is better. I am not 100% certain there is a mod, but I think I remember reading about it.
Steve
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:23 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly
Jerry, nice photos - and photos of this area are relatively rare, thanks!
On 10 July 2012 10:44, Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net (jlatimer1(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Carlos,
I've enclosed 2 photos (one for the right side and one for the left side) of my HDS in the area you are having problems with. I don't remember having the same problem you are having. I did have to make the center wing nose skin 3 times for other problems. I kept leaving too much gap between it and the front fuselage skins.
Not sure this helps but it lets you look at some more photos.
Jerry
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01234567
[quote][b]
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carlossa52(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:15 am Post subject: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly |
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Hello, Steve
Yes, the folks at ZAC continue to be *very* helpful.
And the main gear is ready, so no changes... It's been too long, I gotta get this thing in the air!
Best
Carlos
On 10 July 2012 11:49, Steven Freeeman <steve.freeman(at)syntaxds.com (steve.freeman(at)syntaxds.com)> wrote:
[quote]
This brings back some memories! Does ZAC still fully support the HDS model?
If you have not already done so I believe there is a modification to use the new spring gear from the XL/650 on the HDS. I promise you…having done both, if it is not too late to modify you might want to consider this. The new main landing gear design is superior to what is on the HDS. Don’t get me wrong, the HDS gear is fine, it is just the new is better. I am not 100% certain there is a mod, but I think I remember reading about it.
Steve
[b]
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larrycmcfarland(at)gmail.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:41 am Post subject: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly |
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Steve,
I’d take issue with the claim that the new leaf gear is an improvement. It is for the XL, but I think the strength of the mains on the large center spar wing have a serious advantage
for the HDS series. The leaf gear flex tends to give the XL an eccentric wobble. It weighs lots more. The original takes a bit more to install, but the original gear is superior to the leaf
even if the leaf looks easier to install. If you’re building an HDS, stay with the original design gear. You’ll notice the difference when you get in serious crosswind landings and
also feel the gear stay aligned when you grease it on with one wheel down in a landing. You stay straight and don’t get tossed off center by the design of the leaf. I’ve lifted one and didn’t like
the heft of it at all. Felt like 50 plus pounds. The original must be at least half the weight of the new one-piece gear. The wing span of the HDS won’t like the extra weight either.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Freeeman
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:50 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly
This brings back some memories! Does ZAC still fully support the HDS model?
If you have not already done so I believe there is a modification to use the new spring gear from the XL/650 on the HDS. I promise you…having done both, if it is not too late to modify you might want to consider this. The new main landing gear design is superior to what is on the HDS. Don’t get me wrong, the HDS gear is fine, it is just the new is better. I am not 100% certain there is a mod, but I think I remember reading about it.
Steve
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:23 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly
Jerry, nice photos - and photos of this area are relatively rare, thanks!
On 10 July 2012 10:44, Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net (jlatimer1(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Carlos,
I've enclosed 2 photos (one for the right side and one for the left side) of my HDS in the area you are having problems with. I don't remember having the same problem you are having. I did have to make the center wing nose skin 3 times for other problems. I kept leaving too much gap between it and the front fuselage skins.
Not sure this helps but it lets you look at some more photos.
Jerry
012345678901234567
[quote][b]
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steve.freeman(at)syntaxds
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:05 am Post subject: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly |
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Hi Larry,
I would agree with everything you write regarding weight. I can’t speak to the cross wind tendencies. With that said having installed both and landed on both I disagree with a couple of your points.
I believe ZAC changed the design for a reason. And anyone who has followed my rants knows I do not always agree with ZAC.
The wheels supplied with the new gear are better and are real airplane tires. Seeing the quality of your craftsmanship I cannot believe you would disagree with that. The original equipment works fine though.
I have only flown left seat in an HDS two times and XL once. All of my other time has been right seat in Don Honabach’s 601HDS and a few flights in others. The HDS I built is currently flying in Australia I had to sell it when I hit a financial brick wall in 2003. I am currently about 85% done with fuselage on a 650.
I should have clarified my point…but I did say “consider” not that I necessarily recommend. To each his own. I do believe the design is superior in theory. In application it might be who prefers which flavor. As far as the additional weight goes…I have seen guys easily 75 pounds (or more) overweight talk about not using this or that on an airplane because it might weigh a half a pound more or less than another piece of equipment. This conversation always amuses me. Having recently lost 60 pounds (promptly put 30 back on) I can speak to this exercise as well. Sometimes I think the best place any of us can lose weight on our airplanes is by taking it off our own rear ends. I am not suggesting (for even a moment) that applies to anyone on this list…It is simply something I have observed at many airplane functions over the years.
I was referring primarily to the install and eventual upkeep. Replacing those bungees will be a bear when the time comes.
Steve
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:38 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly
Steve,
I’d take issue with the claim that the new leaf gear is an improvement. It is for the XL, but I think the strength of the mains on the large center spar wing have a serious advantage
for the HDS series. The leaf gear flex tends to give the XL an eccentric wobble. It weighs lots more. The original takes a bit more to install, but the original gear is superior to the leaf
even if the leaf looks easier to install. If you’re building an HDS, stay with the original design gear. You’ll notice the difference when you get in serious crosswind landings and
also feel the gear stay aligned when you grease it on with one wheel down in a landing. You stay straight and don’t get tossed off center by the design of the leaf. I’ve lifted one and didn’t like
the heft of it at all. Felt like 50 plus pounds. The original must be at least half the weight of the new one-piece gear. The wing span of the HDS won’t like the extra weight either.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Steven Freeeman
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:50 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly
This brings back some memories! Does ZAC still fully support the HDS model?
If you have not already done so I believe there is a modification to use the new spring gear from the XL/650 on the HDS. I promise you…having done both, if it is not too late to modify you might want to consider this. The new main landing gear design is superior to what is on the HDS. Don’t get me wrong, the HDS gear is fine, it is just the new is better. I am not 100% certain there is a mod, but I think I remember reading about it.
Steve
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:23 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly
Jerry, nice photos - and photos of this area are relatively rare, thanks!
On 10 July 2012 10:44, Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net (jlatimer1(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Carlos,
I've enclosed 2 photos (one for the right side and one for the left side) of my HDS in the area you are having problems with. I don't remember having the same problem you are having. I did have to make the center wing nose skin 3 times for other problems. I kept leaving too much gap between it and the front fuselage skins.
Not sure this helps but it lets you look at some more photos.
Jerry
0123456789012345678901234567
[quote][b]
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paulrod36(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Another comment about the "old" gear---When I checked out in Ray Huffman's HD, I still had a mental visual picture from a 172, and landed it at 172 height. As a result, I found out that the HD will make carrier landings very nicely. Exiting the airplane we were both about two inches shorter........But the plane wasn't.
Paul R
[quote] ---
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larrycmcfarland(at)gmail.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly |
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Hi Steve,
I only said the XL gear leaf is not a good solution for the HDS because the long spar design takes care of landing loads without adding a second strength component to the belly of the plane.
The XL needs the leaf gear because of the shorter spar of course, but the XL has a much longer wing than the 23 foot HDS wing, one reason because the gear is considerably heavier.
Real airplane tires are not determined by manufacturer, but qualifying specs. I didn’t like the original tires that looked more like something off a wheel barrow either.
By the time you’ve got the center spar made, you find the rationale for the gear is also made. I’ve changed out my bungees on the mains and found it “fun” as you describe,
but that wouldn’t be reason enough to corrupt the design of the HDS main gear. It rolls true and on compression, it maintains that alignment. The spread leaf on the XL is
different only by its attachment and is no worse than any other aircraft with Cessna type gear. I like the 650 and think it’s a great plane. I might have built one if it had been
available at the time, but it is a distinctly different aircraft than the HDS. The HD long wing climbs twice as fast as my HDS with the same power and I’d expect the 650 to do that
also. The HDS is fast enough, but weight is a serious consideration when loading up that short wing.
Respectfully,
Larry McFarland
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Freeeman
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 1:02 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly
Hi Larry,
I would agree with everything you write regarding weight. I can’t speak to the cross wind tendencies. With that said having installed both and landed on both I disagree with a couple of your points.
I believe ZAC changed the design for a reason. And anyone who has followed my rants knows I do not always agree with ZAC.
The wheels supplied with the new gear are better and are real airplane tires. Seeing the quality of your craftsmanship I cannot believe you would disagree with that. The original equipment works fine though.
I have only flown left seat in an HDS two times and XL once. All of my other time has been right seat in Don Honabach’s 601HDS and a few flights in others. The HDS I built is currently flying in Australia I had to sell it when I hit a financial brick wall in 2003. I am currently about 85% done with fuselage on a 650.
I should have clarified my point…but I did say “consider” not that I necessarily recommend. To each his own. I do believe the design is superior in theory. In application it might be who prefers which flavor. As far as the additional weight goes…I have seen guys easily 75 pounds (or more) overweight talk about not using this or that on an airplane because it might weigh a half a pound more or less than another piece of equipment. This conversation always amuses me. Having recently lost 60 pounds (promptly put 30 back on) I can speak to this exercise as well. Sometimes I think the best place any of us can lose weight on our airplanes is by taking it off our own rear ends. I am not suggesting (for even a moment) that applies to anyone on this list…It is simply something I have observed at many airplane functions over the years.
I was referring primarily to the install and eventual upkeep. Replacing those bungees will be a bear when the time comes.
Steve
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Larry McFarland
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:38 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly
Steve,
I’d take issue with the claim that the new leaf gear is an improvement. It is for the XL, but I think the strength of the mains on the large center spar wing have a serious advantage
for the HDS series. The leaf gear flex tends to give the XL an eccentric wobble. It weighs lots more. The original takes a bit more to install, but the original gear is superior to the leaf
even if the leaf looks easier to install. If you’re building an HDS, stay with the original design gear. You’ll notice the difference when you get in serious crosswind landings and
also feel the gear stay aligned when you grease it on with one wheel down in a landing. You stay straight and don’t get tossed off center by the design of the leaf. I’ve lifted one and didn’t like
the heft of it at all. Felt like 50 plus pounds. The original must be at least half the weight of the new one-piece gear. The wing span of the HDS won’t like the extra weight either.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Steven Freeeman
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:50 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly
This brings back some memories! Does ZAC still fully support the HDS model?
If you have not already done so I believe there is a modification to use the new spring gear from the XL/650 on the HDS. I promise you…having done both, if it is not too late to modify you might want to consider this. The new main landing gear design is superior to what is on the HDS. Don’t get me wrong, the HDS gear is fine, it is just the new is better. I am not 100% certain there is a mod, but I think I remember reading about it.
Steve
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Carlos Sa
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:23 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Fwd: CH601-HD(S) fuselage assembly
Jerry, nice photos - and photos of this area are relatively rare, thanks!
On 10 July 2012 10:44, Jerry <jlatimer1(at)cox.net (jlatimer1(at)cox.net)> wrote:
Carlos,
I've enclosed 2 photos (one for the right side and one for the left side) of my HDS in the area you are having problems with. I don't remember having the same problem you are having. I did have to make the center wing nose skin 3 times for other problems. I kept leaving too much gap between it and the front fuselage skins.
Not sure this helps but it lets you look at some more photos.
Jerry
01234567890123456789012345678901234567
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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