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AirEupora
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Dixon, CA
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 Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:15 am Post subject: N120ej trails and tribulations |
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After some very short flights I have finally gotten N120EJ up for a 46 minutes flight last week. I’m still having some heating problems, but am getting closer to solving them. Bud Yerly, Jim McCormick, John Lawton, Jim Puglise have been a big help. I knew when I bought the Jabiru that I'd have heating problems, but for the 10K that I save by buying the Jabiru I figured I could do a lot of modifications to the cowl and engine if need be.
One area is the plenum chambers for both sides. I have the type with the spark plug wiring and CHT wiring running inside. The first modification was to the plenum chamber. There is not a lot of information out there for installing the baffles in the plenum. Bud recommends not using any, but I had installed some. I had to cut these out completely and my dealer, Jim McCormick, said I had installed them wrong. I then installed three dams ½” across both front cylinders and mid cylinders plus a 1” dam over 5 & 6. I have since cut these down to 1/8" on the front two cylinders on both mid cylinders. I have 1/2" on the two rear cylinders. These are vertical to the air flow. Not sure why, but that’s what Jim McCormick recommended. I have also installed the inter baffles that Jabiru stated that I did not need. I have also wrapped a piece of aluminum around 5 and 6 to get more air moving across the fin area.
I have four inch openings on the Canadian Cowl that I'm using. I found out after I installed them that John Lawton had gone to five inch openings. I have modified the shark tooth or NACA duct for the oil cooler. Trying to figure out a method of using this NACA duct and keeping the oil cooler attached to the engine had been a real challenge. I think I have modified this one piece five to six times. I have what is called an 8 bar oil cooler. It is about the closest thing to aviation type oil cooler. The last modification was wrapping the oil cooler with duct tape and waxing it so I could make a fiberglass mold. Once I had the mold made I placed it in the lower cowling and designed it to be glued into place so air could not escape around it, but had to go through it. I built a duct behind the oil cooler as recommended by a good friend and that has help a lot. I noticed after doing all this work that my cowling had dropped ¼” I flew it this way and the oil temps came down and stayed down. I then went back and figured out what was causing the drop in the cowling and fixed that, but that caused the oil cooler opening to move away from the oil cooler about ¼” on the bottom. I flew it that way and sure enough the temp came up.
One area that I might work on is making a cowl flap for the oil cooler duct. Not sure how to do it right now. It will have to be part of the airframe and not the cowl. More on that later, if and when I do it.
I’m planning on putting a raised ring around the openings for the air intakes. Right now this is a flat area and I have been reading some data that shows that I can increase the flow into the plenum chamber by doing this. There is a dam on 1 & 2. I have made a ramp so that the air will flow up and over these dams. The temps on 1 & 2 are good right now, but the ramps may cause them to run hot.
One thing that has helped a lot is the black box viewer on the MGL Odyessey II. It gives me the data in one second packets. The air temp, altitude, RPM, manifold pressure, oil temps, oil pressure, CHT’s, EGT’s, etc. It is a great tool.
Well, it time to go back to work on the Europa/Jabiru.
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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AirEupora
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Dixon, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:22 am Post subject: Re: N120ej trails and tribulations |
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One other thing that I forgot to write about was the propeller pitch. I had adjusted it to what I thought was 18 degrees, but after re-reading the instructions and checking the pitch I had 20 degrees. That would cause a lot of heat. I re-set the prop to 18.2 degrees and will see if that makes a difference.
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject: N120ej trails and tribulations |
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Rick-
INTERESTING! Couple of thoughts. Before you modify your inlet openings, try putting some vanes in the plenums hung off the top. I have not done that, but it will be my next step if I still have cooling problems. My thought was that they would be about 1.5 inches deep and run from the front to just forward of 5 and 6. If that doesn't do it, you could put some deflectors on the vane to deflect more air toward the heads. The vane worked so well in my cobra head that I think it may help here too. The air coming into the plenums must be very turbulent as is. My plenums are back on the plane and now on to the oil cooler. I may have told you that I split my shark's tooth along the sides and made the opening about 1/2 inch higher. Both that, and my cooler is 11.5 inches wide, so I have some hope for it. Also, did you add the holes and plenum on either side of the shark's tooth to cool the oil pan directly? I have it on mine and oil temps have been OK. I built it this way, so I can't say that made the difference, but I remember reading somewhere that cooling the pan directly helps. John probably told you too that he worked around the problem by mounting the cooler directly in the cowl. When he takes the lower cowl off, he needs to un hook the cooler from the hockey puck. We need to open a photo sharing site somewhere. My pictures are 5 GB each, so e-mailing them does not work well. Any thoughts?
Jim Puglise
From: "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:15:59 AM
Subject: N120ej trails and tribulations
--> Europa-List message posted by: "AirEupora" <AirEupora(at)sbcglobal.net>
After some very short flights I have finally gotten N120EJ up for a 46 minutes flight last week. I’m still having some heating problems, but am getting closer to solving them. Bud Yerly, Jim McCormick, John Lawton, Jim Puglise have been a big help. I knew when I bought the Jabiru that I'd have heating problems, but for the 10K that I save by buying the Jabiru I figured I could do a lot of modifications to the cowl and engine if need be.
One area is the plenum chambers for both sides. I have the type with the spark plug wiring and CHT wiring running inside. The first modification was to the plenum chamber. There is not a lot of information out there for installing the baffles in the plenum. Bud recommends not using any, but I had installed some. I had to cut these out completely and my dealer, Jim McCormick, said I had installed them wrong. I then installed three dams ½� across both front cylinders and mid cylinders plus a 1� dam over 5 & 6. I have since cut these down to 1/8" on the front two cylinders on both mid cylinders. I have 1/2" on the two rear cylinders. These are vertical to the air flow. Not sure why, but that’s what Jim McCormick recommended. I have also installed the inter baffles that Jabiru stated that I did not need. I have also wrapped a piece of aluminum around 5 and 6 to get more air moving across the fin area.
I have four inch openings on the Canadian Cowl that I'm using. I found out after I installed them that John Lawton had gone to five inch openings. I have modified the shark tooth or NACA duct for the oil cooler. Trying to figure out a method of using this NACA duct and keeping the oil cooler attached to the engine had been a real challenge. I think I have modified this one piece five to six times. I have what is called an 8 bar oil cooler. It is about the closest thing to aviation type oil cooler. The last modification was wrapping the oil cooler with duct tape and waxing it so I could make a fiberglass mold. Once I had the mold made I placed it in the lower cowling and designed it to be glued into place so air could not escape around it, but had to go through it. I built a duct behind the oil cooler as recommended by a good friend and that has help a lot. I noticed after doing all this work that my cowling had dropped ¼� I flew it this way and the oil temps !
came down and stayed down. I then went back and figured out what was causing the drop in the cowling and fixed that, but that caused the oil cooler opening to move away from the oil cooler about ¼� on the bottom. I flew it that way and sure enough the temp came up.
One area that I might work on is making a cowl flap for the oil cooler duct. Not sure how to do it right now. It will have to be part of the airframe and not the cowl. More on that later, if and when I do it.
I’m planning on putting a raised ring around the openings for the air intakes. Right now this is a flat area and I have been reading some data that shows that I can increase the flow into the plenum chamber by doing this. There is a dam on 1 & 2. I have made a ramp so that the air will flow up and over these dams. The temps on 1 & 2 are good right now, but the ramps may cause them to run hot.
One thing that has helped a lot is the black box viewer on the MGL Odyessey II. It gives me the data in one second packets. The air temp, altitude, RPM, manifold pressure, oil temps, oil pressure, CHT’s, EGT’s, etc. It is a great tool.
Well, it time to go back to work on the Europa/Jabiru.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewto= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS======
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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rlborger(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject: N120ej trails and tribulations |
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Jim,
EuropaOwners.org for photo sharing. Start a new album just for y'alls Jab info.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Jul 16, 2012, at 5:08 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:
Rick-
INTERESTING! Couple of thoughts. Before you modify your inlet openings, try putting some vanes in the plenums hung off the top. I have not done that, but it will be my next step if I still have cooling problems. My thought was that they would be about 1.5 inches deep and run from the front to just forward of 5 and 6. If that doesn't do it, you could put some deflectors on the vane to deflect more air toward the heads. The vane worked so well in my cobra head that I think it may help here too. The air coming into the plenums must be very turbulent as is. My plenums are back on the plane and now on to the oil cooler. I may have told you that I split my shark's tooth along the sides and made the opening about 1/2 inch higher. Both that, and my cooler is 11.5 inches wide, so I have some hope for it. Also, did you add the holes and plenum on either side of the shark's tooth to cool the oil pan directly? I have it on mine and oil temps have been OK. I built it this way, so I can't say that made the difference, but I remember reading somewhere that cooling the pan directly helps. John probably told you too that he worked around the problem by mounting the cooler directly in the cowl. When he takes the lower cowl off, he needs to un hook the cooler from the hockey puck. We need to open a photo sharing site somewhere. My pictures are 5 GB each, so e-mailing them does not work well. Any thoughts?
Jim Puglise
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Fred Klein
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: N120ej trails and tribulations |
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On Jul 16, 2012, at 3:08 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:
| Quote: | My pictures are 5 GB each, so e-mailing them does not work well. Any thoughts?
|
Jim,
On my combuter (iMacbook) when I want to email a photo, I get a sizing prompt which allows a selection of smaller resolutions to pick from rather than to send the photo in its full size resolution...I thought this was a feature common to all laptops...?....
Fred
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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rparigoris
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 797
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: N120ej trails and tribulations |
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Hi Fred
Start up a Hotmail account, it's free and EZ www.hotmail.com once you start it up you now have cloud based storage for free, click Skydrive at the top right, then upload you picture, click share, then get a link, copy and paste and anyone can access your stuff with just a link. Very kool and free. They even give you Microsoft Excel and Word light for free.
Ron P.
> > On Jul 16, 2012, at 3:08 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net wrote: > >> My pictures are 5 GB each, so e-mailing them does not work well. >> Any thoughts? > > Jim, > > On my combuter (iMacbook) when I want to email a photo, I get a sizing > prompt which allows a selection of smaller resolutions to pick from > rather than to send the photo in its full size resolution...I thought > this was a feature common to all laptops...?.... > > Fred [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:14 pm Post subject: N120ej trails and tribulations |
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Bob-
Thanks. I'll take a look tomorrow.
Jim
From: "Robert Borger" <rlborger(at)mac.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 6:31:50 PM
Subject: Re: N120ej trails and tribulations
Jim,
EuropaOwners.org for photo sharing. Start a new album just for y'alls Jab info.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Jul 16, 2012, at 5:08 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:
Rick-
INTERESTING! Couple of thoughts. Before you modify your inlet openings, try putting some vanes in the plenums hung off the top. I have not done that, but it will be my next step if I still have cooling problems. My thought was that they would be about 1.5 inches deep and run from the front to just forward of 5 and 6. If that doesn't do it, you could put some deflectors on the vane to deflect more air toward the heads. The vane worked so well in my cobra head that I think it may help here too. The air coming into the plenums must be very turbulent as is. My plenums are back on the plane and now on to the oil cooler. I may have told you that I split my shark's tooth along the sides and made the opening about 1/2 inch higher. Both that, and my cooler is 11.5 inches wide, so I have some hope for it. Also, did you add the holes and plenum on either side of the shark's tooth to cool the oil pan directly? I have it on mine and oil temps have been OK. I built it this way, so I can't say that made the difference, but I remember reading somewhere that cooling the pan directly helps. John probably told you too that he worked around the problem by mounting the cooler directly in the cowl. When he takes the lower cowl off, he needs to un hook the cooler from the hockey puck. We need to open a photo sharing site somewhere. My pictures are 5 GB each, so e-mailing them does not work well. Any thoughts?
Jim Puglise
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:10 pm Post subject: N120ej trails and tribulations |
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Fred-
I opened an album and put a few pictures of what I have done for cooling on the Europaowners web site. You need to go to page 4 on the site to find my album. The sit is not terribly inuitive but easy to use once you get used to it.
Jim
From: "Fred Klein" <fklein(at)orcasonline.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 7:53:32 PM
Subject: Re: N120ej trails and tribulations
On Jul 16, 2012, at 3:08 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:
| Quote: | My pictures are 5 GB each, so e-mailing them does not work well. Any thoughts?
|
Jim,
On my combuter (iMacbook) when I want to email a photo, I get a sizing prompt which allows a selection of smaller resolutions to pick from rather than to send the photo in its full size resolution...I thought this was a feature common to all laptops...?....
Fred
[quote]
[b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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carlmeek(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:46 pm Post subject: N120ej trails and tribulations |
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These are nice clear photos. How successful are you so far? I'm doing exactly the Same cooling project on my Europa.
Yesterday we installed baffles in the plenums (which were previously just plain).
I also have a new bottom lip on the cowl, like yours but a little bigger
I also have a tight plenum around the oil cooler.
Before the plenum baffles, cylinder 3 was hottest.
Now cylinder 6 is hottest... I think we need to reduce that baffle a bit.
After climbing on full power at 85kts I had to level out at 750 feet to cool down, OAT was 25. Cylinder 6 kit 170. Hottest other cylinder was 159.
Obviously once we even them out a bit, and 6 stops being quite so problematic, it will be much better... But I'm interested to know what sort of max temps after climb I should be looking for.
I'm running out of ideas on what to do next! Any suggestions?
Regards
Carl.
Sent from my iPad
On 24 Jul 2012, at 02:10, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:
[quote]
Fred-
I opened an album and put a few pictures of what I have done for cooling on the Europaowners web site. You need to go to page 4 on the site to find my album. The sit is not terribly inuitive but easy to use once you get used to it.
Jim
From: "Fred Klein" <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 7:53:32 PM
Subject: Re: N120ej trails and tribulations
On Jul 16, 2012, at 3:08 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:
| Quote: | My pictures are 5 GB each, so e-mailing them does not work well. Any thoughts?
|
Jim,
On my combuter (iMacbook) when I want to email a photo, I get a sizing prompt which allows a selection of smaller resolutions to pick from rather than to send the photo in its full size resolution...I thought this was a feature common to all laptops...?....
Fred
| Quote: |
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
//forums.matronics.com
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:01 am Post subject: N120ej trails and tribulations |
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p { margin: 0; }Hi Carl-
My 5 and 6 are still way too hot. I just checked the log from my last flight and they got to 400 f for a few seconds. The deflectors over 5 and 6 were much larger that flight and I have cut them down a bit now, but have not flown it. I have the same problem you do with the oil cooler. I had refitted it to make it at 90 degrees to the direction of flight and need to get the cowl rebuilt, which is turning out to be quite a job. Do you have photos? If so, it would be nice if you could put an album together too. To get an album, you need to e-mail Steve Dunsmuir at sdunsmuir(at)mac.com. He will set up your gallery and you can then add anything you want to it. I am talking to some of the guys on the Jabiru forum about it too and they have some good ideas. If you have your oil cooler whipped, that may be part of the problem. Bud is of the opinion that the exhaust from the cooler may create a high pressure area just under the cylinders, making it difficult for the air to get through to the low pressure area in the bottom of the cowl. I think he is build a baffle behind the cooler to deflect the exhaust from it.
Jim
From: "Carl Meek" <carlmeek(at)gmail.com>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 2:45:55 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: N120ej trails and tribulations
These are nice clear photos. How successful are you so far? I'm doing exactly the Same cooling project on my Europa.
Yesterday we installed baffles in the plenums (which were previously just plain).
I also have a new bottom lip on the cowl, like yours but a little bigger
I also have a tight plenum around the oil cooler.
Before the plenum baffles, cylinder 3 was hottest.
Now cylinder 6 is hottest... I think we need to reduce that baffle a bit.
After climbing on full power at 85kts I had to level out at 750 feet to cool down, OAT was 25. Cylinder 6 kit 170. Hottest other cylinder was 159.
Obviously once we even them out a bit, and 6 stops being quite so problematic, it will be much better... But I'm interested to know what sort of max temps after climb I should be looking for.
I'm running out of ideas on what to do next! Any suggestions?
Regards
Carl.
Sent from my iPad
On 24 Jul 2012, at 02:10, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:
[quote]
Fred-
I opened an album and put a few pictures of what I have done for cooling on the Europaowners web site. You need to go to page 4 on the site to find my album. The sit is not terribly inuitive but easy to use once you get used to it.
Jim
From: "Fred Klein" <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 7:53:32 PM
Subject: Re: N120ej trails and tribulations
On Jul 16, 2012, at 3:08 PM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net (jimpuglise(at)comcast.net) wrote:
| Quote: | My pictures are 5 GB each, so e-mailing them does not work well. Any thoughts?
|
Jim,
On my combuter (iMacbook) when I want to email a photo, I get a sizing prompt which allows a selection of smaller resolutions to pick from rather than to send the photo in its full size resolution...I thought this was a feature common to all laptops...?....
Fred
| Quote: |
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
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