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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK
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 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:32 am Post subject: Esqual Stability |
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Hi Luigi, I am good. The weather in the UK has finally improved and I’ve been doing some good flying.
Back offshore now in the North sea and hoping the weather will still have some summer in it when I get back next time.
Mostly the flying was in the Jabiru as the Esqual is still on a test permit and so cannot go further than 25miles past 3 airfields on the East side of England (still 60 miles to play in).
The changes I made for the stability were:
New engine mount from Arion that moved the engine forward 18mm (I had to buy new cowlings but I wanted the Lightning ones for the cooling anyway).
Nick recommended I tip the front of the tail plane down by 3/16”, this was about 3 degrees and I managed to get that movement by lifting the back.
I fitted a new ‘flap type’ trim tab with electric servo and removed the bungee trim, this was a Lightning retrofit kit trim kit though I did make the flap a bit bigger.
During the test flying I limited the flap travel to 22 degrees to help with the trim on approach (as mentioned in the kit planes article for the Lighting which was interesting).
It was still too heavy under a FWD C of G so when the evaluation flying was being done for the LAA it was limited some more.
Now at 16 degrees max flap it is hands off on approach unless it is solo with low fuel. Minimum stall is still 35 knots
All round much nicer to fly but still very sporty.
The flight test report was done by an independent test pilot but he was very happy and has sent a positive recommendation.
The flight test was to CS-VLA (you can find that on the net). It was great fun as I was the ‘talking ballast’ I really saw what the plane could do.
I am just waiting to get feedback on that report and hope to have a full PoF soon.
I will send you the report directly.
The picture is the test pilot about to do the solo sortie.
He was mega experienced, graduate of the Empire Test Pilot program, many years ago now as he is 83.
I hope I can still fly like he does when I’m that age.
I trust all is well in Italy and you are flying your Esqual regularly (after you pay your luxury tax to the idiots in charge!).
Best Regards, Clive
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of luigi di napoli
Sent: 07 August 2012 19:40
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Kitplanes September Issue
Hi Clive,
how are you ?
I read about the Esqual stability and I am curious to know which improvements the Esqual needs.
Did you calculate a good C&G to improve the phugoid ? And what about the max flap setting ?
I remember that you, some time ago, sent a mail with something inherent but forgot it.
Do you have any news ? And what about the PoF for your bird ?
Waiting your news best regards and enjoy your vacation.
Luigi
Da: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
A: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Inviato: Martedì 7 Agosto 2012 20:05
Oggetto: RE: Lightning-List: Kitplanes September Issue
Still in your debt for the fix on the Esqual !
Permit is getting closer but not yet got my hands on it.
Regards, Clive
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Otterback
Sent: 07 August 2012 18:57
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Kitplanes September Issue
Thanks for the kind words. The company is not mine it is Petes. We are partners along with a few other investors. Pete simply allows me the freedom to further design as needed.
Thanks
Nick
Sent from my pocket
On Aug 7, 2012, at 11:53 AM, "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Reads well, as someone who has gone through the stability and trim issues with the Esqual I can appreciate the improvements.
So now the Esqual is Swedish? And you didn’t crack a mould off the fuselage? What’s that smell? I’ll bet Francesc is turning is his grave.
Good to see you aren’t sitting on your hands, and nice to see Pete gave you the company!
Regards, Clive
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Otterback
Sent: 07 August 2012 16:40
To: Lightning-list(at)matronics.com (Lightning-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Lightning-List: Kitplanes September Issue
Here is the article in PDF form for those of you that have not read it yet.
thanks
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft LLC
R&D Technical Support
931-680-1781
|
012
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elledien
Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: Esqual Stability |
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Hi Clive,
the problems in Italy are always the same.
Changes the boss only to listen that the situation is no good and we need more sacrifices.
The orchestra is new but the music is the same.
Thank you for the good report, and for the list of improvements done.
I need to know,whenever possible, the size of elevator trim.Mine is around 9 inches by 4 and I believe that with full flaps the authority is not sufficient
being the plane still to heavy with a lot of nose-up trim.My trim is electric, with Ray-Allen servo. For climb, cruise and initial approach the job is correct, not for
the landing phase.So I decided to increase the trim size, but to avoid to make experiments is better to ask to whom experienced it.
If you believe to have the right size, please tell me so I may increase it.
Thank again for the info given to the community, with your good report.
Ciao,
Luigi
Esqual I-9854
Da: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
A: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Inviato: Martedì 7 Agosto 2012 21:30
Oggetto: Esqual Stability
Hi Luigi, I am good. The weather in the UK has finally improved and I’ve been doing some good flying.
Back offshore now in the North sea and hoping the weather will still have some summer in it when I get back next time.
Mostly the flying was in the Jabiru as the Esqual is still on a test permit and so cannot go further than 25miles past 3 airfields on the East side of England (still 60 miles to play in).
The changes I made for the stability were:
New engine mount from Arion that moved the engine forward 18mm (I had to buy new cowlings but I wanted the Lightning ones for the cooling anyway).
Nick recommended I tip the front of the tail plane down by 3/16”, this was about 3 degrees and I managed to get that movement by lifting the back.
I fitted a new ‘flap type’ trim tab with electric servo and removed the bungee trim, this was a Lightning retrofit kit trim kit though I did make the flap a bit bigger.
During the test flying I limited the flap travel to 22 degrees to help with the trim on approach (as mentioned in the kit planes article for the Lighting which was interesting).
It was still too heavy under a FWD C of G so when the evaluation flying was being done for the LAA it was limited some more.
Now at 16 degrees max flap it is hands off on approach unless it is solo with low fuel. Minimum stall is still 35 knots
All round much nicer to fly but still very sporty.
The flight test report was done by an independent test pilot but he was very happy and has sent a positive recommendation.
The flight test was to CS-VLA (you can find that on the net). It was great fun as I was the ‘talking ballast’ I really saw what the plane could do.
I am just waiting to get feedback on that report and hope to have a full PoF soon.
I will send you the report directly.
The picture is the test pilot about to do the solo sortie.
He was mega experienced, graduate of the Empire Test Pilot program, many years ago now as he is 83.
I hope I can still fly like he does when I’m that age.
I trust all is well in Italy and you are flying your Esqual regularly (after you pay your luxury tax to the idiots in charge!).
Best Regards, Clive
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of luigi di napoli
Sent: 07 August 2012 19:40
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitplanes September Issue
Hi Clive,
how are you ?
I read about the Esqual stability and I am curious to know which improvements the Esqual needs.
Did you calculate a good C&G to improve the phugoid ? And what about the max flap setting ?
I remember that you, some time ago, sent a mail with something inherent but forgot it.
Do you have any news ? And what about the PoF for your bird ?
Waiting your news best regards and enjoy your vacation.
Luigi
Da: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
A: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Inviato: Martedì 7 Agosto 2012 20:05
Oggetto: RE: Kitplanes September Issue
Still in your debt for the fix on the Esqual !
Permit is getting closer but not yet got my hands on it.
Regards, Clive
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Otterback
Sent: 07 August 2012 18:57
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Kitplanes September Issue
Thanks for the kind words. The company is not mine it is Petes. We are partners along with a few other investors. Pete simply allows me the freedom to further design as needed.
Thanks
Nick
Sent from my pocket
On Aug 7, 2012, at 11:53 AM, "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Reads well, as someone who has gone through the stability and trim issues with the Esqual I can appreciate the improvements.
So now the Esqual is Swedish? And you didn’t crack a mould off the fuselage? What’s that smell? I’ll bet Francesc is turning is his grave.
Good to see you aren’t sitting on your hands, and nice to see Pete gave you the company!
Regards, Clive
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Otterback
Sent: 07 August 2012 16:40
To: Lightning-list(at)matronics.com (Lightning-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Kitplanes September Issue
Here is the article in PDF form for those of you that have not read it yet.
thanks
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft LLC
R&D Technical Support
931-680-1781
|
012</pre-> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Li             - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
34
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5678[/b] [/quote]901[/b]==========[/quote]2http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/b]==========[/quote]34
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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject: Esqual Stability |
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|
Hi Luigi, for all of us it will be the same till the music changes, if it ever does.
I made the new flap twice the size of the original, I would estimate 350mm x 100mm. I am offshore at the moment so can’t measure it.
The Original was the size supplied by Arion but that was for the Lightning that doesn’t have as big flaps as the Esqual.
Pictures attached, I have the same Ray Allen servo. The trim is only hands free down to 16 degrees flap angle. Above that it is still nose heavy even at aft CoG.
Above 23 degrees and you start to lose elevator authority, at 32 degrees you must find the stick has little effect on the pitch so you don’t need that bit!
I still think the flap needs to be bigger, a full width trim flap, like some have made of the rear of the elevator must be best. 3 inches deep, 75mm.
I will do that one day when I have the time.
Regards, Clive
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of luigi di napoli
Sent: 09 August 2012 22:48
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Esqual Stability
Hi Clive,
the problems in Italy are always the same.
Changes the boss only to listen that the situation is no good and we need more sacrifices.
The orchestra is new but the music is the same.
Thank you for the good report, and for the list of improvements done.
I need to know,whenever possible, the size of elevator trim.Mine is around 9 inches by 4 and I believe that with full flaps the authority is not sufficient
being the plane still to heavy with a lot of nose-up trim.My trim is electric, with Ray-Allen servo. For climb, cruise and initial approach the job is correct, not for
the landing phase.So I decided to increase the trim size, but to avoid to make experiments is better to ask to whom experienced it.
If you believe to have the right size, please tell me so I may increase it.
Thank again for the info given to the community, with your good report.
Ciao,
Luigi
Esqual I-9854
Da: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
A: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Inviato: Martedì 7 Agosto 2012 21:30
Oggetto: Lightning-List: Esqual Stability
Hi Luigi, I am good. The weather in the UK has finally improved and I’ve been doing some good flying.
Back offshore now in the North sea and hoping the weather will still have some summer in it when I get back next time.
Mostly the flying was in the Jabiru as the Esqual is still on a test permit and so cannot go further than 25miles past 3 airfields on the East side of England (still 60 miles to play in).
The changes I made for the stability were:
New engine mount from Arion that moved the engine forward 18mm (I had to buy new cowlings but I wanted the Lightning ones for the cooling anyway).
Nick recommended I tip the front of the tail plane down by 3/16”, this was about 3 degrees and I managed to get that movement by lifting the back.
I fitted a new ‘flap type’ trim tab with electric servo and removed the bungee trim, this was a Lightning retrofit kit trim kit though I did make the flap a bit bigger.
During the test flying I limited the flap travel to 22 degrees to help with the trim on approach (as mentioned in the kit planes article for the Lighting which was interesting).
It was still too heavy under a FWD C of G so when the evaluation flying was being done for the LAA it was limited some more.
Now at 16 degrees max flap it is hands off on approach unless it is solo with low fuel. Minimum stall is still 35 knots
All round much nicer to fly but still very sporty.
The flight test report was done by an independent test pilot but he was very happy and has sent a positive recommendation.
The flight test was to CS-VLA (you can find that on the net). It was great fun as I was the ‘talking ballast’ I really saw what the plane could do.
I am just waiting to get feedback on that report and hope to have a full PoF soon.
I will send you the report directly.
The picture is the test pilot about to do the solo sortie.
He was mega experienced, graduate of the Empire Test Pilot program, many years ago now as he is 83.
I hope I can still fly like he does when I’m that age.
I trust all is well in Italy and you are flying your Esqual regularly (after you pay your luxury tax to the idiots in charge!).
Best Regards, Clive
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of luigi di napoli
Sent: 07 August 2012 19:40
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Kitplanes September Issue
Hi Clive,
how are you ?
I read about the Esqual stability and I am curious to know which improvements the Esqual needs.
Did you calculate a good C&G to improve the phugoid ? And what about the max flap setting ?
I remember that you, some time ago, sent a mail with something inherent but forgot it.
Do you have any news ? And what about the PoF for your bird ?
Waiting your news best regards and enjoy your vacation.
Luigi
Da: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
A: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Inviato: Martedì 7 Agosto 2012 20:05
Oggetto: RE: Lightning-List: Kitplanes September Issue
Still in your debt for the fix on the Esqual !
Permit is getting closer but not yet got my hands on it.
Regards, Clive
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nick Otterback
Sent: 07 August 2012 18:57
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Kitplanes September Issue
Thanks for the kind words. The company is not mine it is Petes. We are partners along with a few other investors. Pete simply allows me the freedom to further design as needed.
Thanks
Nick
Sent from my pocket
On Aug 7, 2012, at 11:53 AM, "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)> wrote:
</pre-> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-LiÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
http://forums.matronics.com</ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ - List Contribution Web Site ank you for your generous support!
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