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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
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 Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: Inlet Ring Size |
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To continue our discussion of inlet ring size relative to engine cooling when I was last home I photographed the SJ inlet rings with the rings designed by Alan in Watsonville. Alan has had success in cooling by increasing the opening to his James cowl. I will not speak further about Alan's set up because I really don’t know the details other than he does beautiful fiberglass work. My point is look at how substantially different the two rings are in size. Yes I know, I need to clean the bugs off my nose.
Robin
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bwestfall
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 131
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: Inlet Ring Size |
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Robin,
Two things…
1) That larger ring looks at least as big if not more than the stock van’s cowl J.
2) I’m wondering if you may be experiencing inlet drag/interference that is causing a blockage to the inlet flows. The slick/successful James Cowl’s have seen always seem to have more of a venturi style inlet shape that gradually narrows then opens back up.
-Ben
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 1:41 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Inlet Ring Size
To continue our discussion of inlet ring size relative to engine cooling when I was last home I photographed the SJ inlet rings with the rings designed by Alan in Watsonville. Alan has had success in cooling by increasing the opening to his James cowl. I will not speak further about Alan's set up because I really don’t know the details other than he does beautiful fiberglass work. My point is look at how substantially different the two rings are in size. Yes I know, I need to clean the bugs off my nose.
Robin
[quote][b]
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject: Inlet Ring Size |
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I do not know about #1 but I suspect the rings are a bit larger than the Vans standard cowl. As far as #2 I have a James cowl on my 8A and they do not have the same issues as the -10 cowl. I don’t think I would call the 4 cylinder James cowl "venturi" style as they really don’t gradually narrow and the transition back is a function of how the builder chooses to make that transition. With so many variations on the 4 cylinder world and few problems I tend to lean towards overall size opening being the limiting factor.
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Westfall
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 2:14 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Inlet Ring Size
Robin,
Two things…
1) That larger ring looks at least as big if not more than the stock van’s cowl J.
2) I’m wondering if you may be experiencing inlet drag/interference that is causing a blockage to the inlet flows. The slick/successful James Cowl’s have seen always seem to have more of a venturi style inlet shape that gradually narrows then opens back up.
-Ben
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 1:41 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Inlet Ring Size
To continue our discussion of inlet ring size relative to engine cooling when I was last home I photographed the SJ inlet rings with the rings designed by Alan in Watsonville. Alan has had success in cooling by increasing the opening to his James cowl. I will not speak further about Alan's set up because I really don’t know the details other than he does beautiful fiberglass work. My point is look at how substantially different the two rings are in size. Yes I know, I need to clean the bugs off my nose.
Robin ==============[/b][/quote] V10-List Email Forum -[/b][/quote] >[/b][/quote] :p>[/b][/quote] /o:p>[/b][/quote] tor?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[/b][/quote] ==============[/b][/quote] bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -[/b][/quote] :p>[/b][/quote] tp://forums.matronics.com[/b][/quote] ==============[/b][/quote] bsp; - List Contribution Web Site -[/b][/quote] e> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.[/b][/quote] bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/b][/quote] ==============[/b] [b]
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jkreidler
Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:19 am Post subject: Re: Inlet Ring Size |
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Robin - thanks for posting. Those things look giant! I would think your entering the zone of external pressure recovery. I know you are absolutely sick of this whole cooling thing and just want to move on and get it solved. Before you do that is there any chance we could get you to take some before and after pressure measurements in your cowl? I know I am asking a lot of a guy who is as frustrated as you are.
By the way, as Ben said the interior shape of the inlet is really critical on internal pressure recovery type systems (small inlets) like the James Cowl & Plenum. I am of the unverified opinion right now that the interior shape of the James cowl inlet is the problem. Putting together the test plan and data right now to verify that.
Check out: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=12633
Thanks - Jason
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_________________
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617 |
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:52 am Post subject: Inlet Ring Size |
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Jason,
I purchased those rings as my triple fall back option. I grabbed them because they looked like a solution but not a convenient one considering all that would be entailed with the conversion on an already flying -10. As far as pressure readings we performed ~30 flights during and just after Phase 1 measuring different DP's to get the plane reasonably flyable. That was nearly 3 years ago and I am long past being interested in more R&D. To answer your question there will be no Before & After as I plan on switching cowls vs. modifying the same cowl so it will be an Apples & Oranges situation which at best would provide minimal actionable information. I wish you the best in developing a solution for this issue but the answer is already out there. It's called the stock Vans cowl & baffle system. I would (and probably should go that route for my replacement cowl but because of my Barrett FFCI / FM300 I have decided to try an impressive new cowl that was specifically developed with that combination of hardware. This is still a leap of faith but there is actually a flying version vs. just going to market with something that "should work." Additionally I will be replacing my Plenum with standard baffles and I hope to never own a plenum again.
Best of luck with your development. I will follow your thread on VAF and the RV List.
Regards,
Robin
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michael(at)sausen.net
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: Inlet Ring Size |
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Jason
They are considerably larger (at) 6.25 ID for about an additional 4.5 sq-in over the originals.
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