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f16ftrplt(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:18 am Post subject: Changes ? |
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I am helping a good friend who just bought a Nanchang and is trying to get his Operating Limitations and Airworthiness certificate re issued.
He called our FSDO and the inspector told him that EVERY THING has been changed as of this July and now he asking for a maintenance program letter and copies of the previous 2 Annual inspections. Additionally, he said that a statement that he is responsible for the operation and maintenance of the aircraft must be in the program letter as well as a statement of who is going to be the PIC.
Does any one know about these changes and a good DAR in Ga?
Med
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rmhou(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject: Changes ? |
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I sent the following to the list with the Deviation to Order attached, but my email was rejected by the list because the attached pdf was too large. Please feel free to contact me and I will email you the Deviation to Order, or you can contact EAA for a copy.
Here is my rejected reply:
Your FSDO is wrong; see the attached Deviation to Order that EAA Warbird sent me.
Prior to FAA’s issuance of the Deviation to Order, certification of experimental exhibition category aircrafts was governed by FAA Order 8130.2G which provided the local FSDO having the power to require reissuance of the aircraft’s special airworthiness certificate and operating limitations upon transfer of ownership or change of home base. See FAA Order 8130.2G, Chang 1, Section 10, Paragraph 4107c(2).
However, the Deviation to Order limits the power of local FSDO to require reissuance. Under the revised Paragraph 4107c(2) of the Deviation to Order, local FSDO will not require reissuance unless the aircraft is in Phase I testing, or FAA Headquarters determines that reissuance is required, or the owner requests reissuance. See the Deviation to Order, Section 10, Paragraph 4107c(2).
EAA saved me from weeks of downtime and hundreds if not thousands to pay DAR.
Robin Hou
--- On Wed, 9/12/12, Ahmed <f16ftrplt(at)aol.com> wrote:
[quote]
From: Ahmed <f16ftrplt(at)aol.com>
Subject: Changes ?
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 11:15 AM
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ahmed <[url=/mc/compose?to=f16ftrplt(at)aol.com]f16ftrplt(at)aol.com[/url]>
I am helping a good friend who just bought a Nanchang and is trying to get his Operating Limitations and Airworthiness certificate re issued.
He called our FSDO and the inspector told him that EVERY THING has been changed as of this July and now he asking for a maintenance program letter and copies of the previous 2 Annual inspections. Additionally, he said that a statement that he is responsible for the operation and maintenance of the aircraft must be in the program letter as well as a statement of who is going to be the PIC.
Does any one know about these changes and a good DAR in Ga?
Med
[quote][b]
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: Changes ? |
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If your friend is a member of EAA and Warbirds of America (if not, he
definitely should be), contact the EAA government affairs group and
explain the situation to them. I seriously doubt the FSDO inspector's
remarks are accurate. Since this is effectively a re-write of the the
existing OL's to the latest FAA Order. the FSDO does not have deal with
all the nuances related to the initial certification, like Phase 1
flight testing etc.
The latest Order is FAA Order 8130.2G with Change 1. Change 1 was issued
on 7/02/2012. Change 1 is pertinent to Light Sport Aircraft ONLY.
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/8130.2G%20.pdf. The
original release of 8130.2G was issued on August 31, 2010. Therefore,
the July date the Inspector gave you is not relevant to Experimental
EXHIBITION and Group 2 aircraft which is covered in Section 10, UNLESS
he can show you by 'chapter and verse' what changes were issued in July
of 2012 that are pertinent to Group 2 aircraft. The Group the CJ fits in
to is Group 2. The following paragraphs pertain to Group 2 aircraft and
are pertinent to this discussion.
/4110. Groups of Aircraft. Aircraft eligible for experimental
airworthiness certification are//
//divided into seven groups. This was done in order to establish
standardized operating limitations//
//and inspection requirements. Operating limitations for each group are
provided in//
//paragraph 4113 of this order.//
//
//(f) Must be in compliance with the _*manufacturer’s*_ or country of
origin’s//
//maintenance, and/or inspection programs //_*(if
provided)*_//.//_*(NOTE - IF PROVIDED MEANS IF ORIGINALLY PROVIDED BY
THE MANUFACTURE. SINCE THIS WAS NEVER PROVIDED, IT IS NOT RELEVANT)*_
//(g) If the manufacturer or country of origin does not provide an
inspection//
//program, the aircraft must have an annual condition inspection that
meets the scope and detail of//
//14 CFR part 43, appendix D.//
//(h) The aircraft must be in full compliance with _*manufacturer’s*_ or
country of origin//
//life limits //*_(if specified)_*//./ _/*(NOTE-IF SPECIFIED MEANS IF
ORIGINALLY SPECIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURE, WHICH IS NEVER WAS. THEREFORE
THIS IS ALSO NOT RELEVANT)*/_
/(2) Type of Aircraft. Examples of aircraft that could operate under
this group include,//
//but are not limited to, aircraft such as the //_*Yak-52;*_//SU-31;
SIAI-Marchetti S.M.1019, AN-2; all//
//single-engine piston-powered WWII fighters; and small helicopters./
/4113. Issuance of Experimental Exhibition and Air Racing Operating
Limitations.//
//a. Operating limitations. The FAA may impose any additional
limitations deemed//
//necessary in the interest of safety, only after coordination with
AFS-800 and AIR-200. The FAA//
//must review each imposed operating limitation with the applicant to
ensure that the operating//
//limitations are understood by the applicant./
Look at the table just below Paragraph 4113. It states which specific
paragraphs are required for each group of aircraft. Look at the ones
required for Group 2.
Regarding the Annual Program Letter, this is the exact paragraph that
must be in the OL's. No where does it say the NAME of the PIC must be
included in the Program Letter. Ask the FSDO inspector to show you by
'chapter and verse' where it says that.
/(3) The owner operator must submit an annual program letter to the
geographically//
//responsible FSDO where the aircraft is based. All operations must be
conducted in accordance//
//with these limitations and the program letter. A copy of the current
program letter and any//
//amendments must be carried on board the aircraft any time that the
aircraft is being operated.//
//The program letter must include the following information://
//(a) The aircraft’s home base.//
//(b) The name of the person responsible for the operation and
maintenance of the//
//aircraft.//
//(c) A list of events at which the aircraft will be exhibited (the list
may be amended//
//as necessary).//
//(d) For Group 6 and Group 7 aircraft, the proficiency area. The
proficiency area//
//may be depicted using a map or it may be described by geographic
landmarks, airports, or aids to//
//navigation.//
/
/(4) The pilot in command of this aircraft must hold an appropriate
category and class////rating./
With regards to an approved inspection program, limitation no. 29 and 30
clearly state ALL LARGE AIRPLANES etc. The CJ is definitely not
considered a 'large' airplane. Large airplanes AS DEFINED IN THIS ORDER
ARE AIRCRAFT OVER 12,500 POUNDS. See paragraph 4110 for the definition.
/*(note-there has never been a required inspection program for the CJ) */
(/29) _*All large airplanes*_, turbojet airplanes,
turbopropeller-powered multiengine//
//airplanes, or turbine-powered rotorcraft must be maintained in with
accordance an//
//FAA-approved inspection program meeting the scope and content as
described in 14 CFR §//
//91.409(f). Completion of these inspections must be recorded in the
aircraft maintenance records.//
//(30) Inspections for _*all large airplanes*_, turbojet airplanes,
turbopropeller-powered//
//multiengine airplanes, and turbine-powered rotorcraft must be recorded
in the aircraft//
//maintenance records showing the following, or a similarly worded,
statement: “I certify that this//
//aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with the
scope and detail of [identify//
//applicable inspection program] and found to be in a condition for safe
operation.”//
/*This paragraph is important.....*/*
*(37) When an aircraft’s home base is changed or there is a transfer of
ownership, the
new owner/operator will take any or all of the following actions within
30 days:
(a) Submit a new program letter to the geographically responsible FSDO.
(b)*_If_ an approved inspection program is specified in these operating
limitations, *
submit a copy to the geographically responsible FSDO. The gaining FSDO
will not change the
previously approved program unless it can be substantiated that the
previously approved program
no longer meets FAA requirements.
(c) The gaining FSDO will not require the aircraft’s airworthiness
certificate or
operating limitations to be reissued, unless the aircraft requires Phase
I test flight operations.
/I hope this helps somewhat.
Dennis
/*
*/
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/12/2012 1:15 PM, Ahmed wrote:
| Quote: |
I am helping a good friend who just bought a Nanchang and is trying to get his Operating Limitations and Airworthiness certificate re issued.
He called our FSDO and the inspector told him that EVERY THING has been changed as of this July and now he asking for a maintenance program letter and copies of the previous 2 Annual inspections. Additionally, he said that a statement that he is responsible for the operation and maintenance of the aircraft must be in the program letter as well as a statement of who is going to be the PIC.
Does any one know about these changes and a good DAR in Ga?
Med
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: Changes ? |
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Excellent Robin...this only adds fuel to the fire which I pointed out in
my reply.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/12/2012 2:09 PM, Robin Hou wrote:
| Quote: | Your FSDO is wrong; see the attached Deviation to Order that EAA
Warbird sent me.
Prior to FAA’s issuance of the Deviation to Order, certification of
experimental exhibition category aircrafts was governed by FAA Order
8130.2G which provided the local FSDO having the power to require
reissuance of the aircraft’s special airworthiness certificate and
operating limitations upon transfer of ownership or change of home
base. See FAA Order 8130.2G, Chang 1, Section 10, Paragraph 4107c(2).
However, the Deviation to Order limits the power of local FSDO to
require reissuance. Under the revised Paragraph 4107c(2) of the
Deviation to Order, local FSDO will not require reissuance unless the
aircraft is in Phase I testing, or FAA Headquarters determines that
reissuance is required, or the owner requests reissuance. See the
Deviation to Order, Section 10, Paragraph 4107c(2).
EAA saved me from weeks of downtime and hundreds if not thousands to
pay DAR.
Email me off line if you want a copy of my program letter.
Robin
--- On Wed, 9/12/12, Ahmed <f16ftrplt(at)aol.com> wrote:
From: Ahmed <f16ftrplt(at)aol.com>
Subject: Changes ?
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 11:15 AM
I am helping a good friend who just bought a Nanchang and is trying to
get his Operating Limitations and Airworthiness certificate re issued.
He called our FSDO and the inspector told him that EVERY THING has
been changed as of this July and now he asking for a maintenance
program letter and copies of the previous 2 Annual inspections.
Additionally, he said that a statement that he is responsible for the
operation and maintenance of the aircraft must be in the program
letter as well as a statement of who is going to be the PIC.
Does any one know about these changes and a good DAR in Ga?
Med<=====================
< many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:14 pm Post subject: Changes ? |
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I got it!
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/12/2012 3:07 PM, Robin Hou wrote:
| Quote: | I sent the following to the list with the Deviation to Order attached,
but my email was rejected by the list because the attached pdf was too
large. Please feel free to contact me and I will email you the
Deviation to Order, or you can contact EAA for a copy.
Here is my rejected reply:
Your FSDO is wrong; see the attached Deviation to Order that EAA
Warbird sent me.
Prior to FAA’s issuance of the Deviation to Order, certification of
experimental exhibition category aircrafts was governed by FAA Order
8130.2G which provided the local FSDO having the power to require
reissuance of the aircraft’s special airworthiness certificate and
operating limitations upon transfer of ownership or change of home
base. See FAA Order 8130.2G, Chang 1, Section 10, Paragraph 4107c(2).
However, the Deviation to Order limits the power of local FSDO to
require reissuance. Under the revised Paragraph 4107c(2) of the
Deviation to Order, local FSDO will not require reissuance unless the
aircraft is in Phase I testing, or FAA Headquarters determines that
reissuance is required, or the owner requests reissuance. See the
Deviation to Order, Section 10, Paragraph 4107c(2).
EAA saved me from weeks of downtime and hundreds if not thousands to
pay DAR.
Robin Hou
--- On *Wed, 9/12/12, Ahmed /<f16ftrplt(at)aol.com>/*wrote:
From: Ahmed <f16ftrplt(at)aol.com>
Subject: Changes ?
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 11:15 AM
</mc/compose?to=f16ftrplt(at)aol.com>>
I am helping a good friend who just bought a Nanchang and is
trying to get his Operating Limitations and Airworthiness
certificate re issued.
He called our FSDO and the inspector told him that EVERY THING has
been changed as of this July and now he asking for a maintenance
program letter and copies of the previous 2 Annual inspections.
Additionally, he said that a statement that he is responsible for
the operation and maintenance of the aircraft must be in the
program letter as well as a statement of who is going to be the PIC.
Does any one know about these changes and a good DAR in Ga?
Med
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