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brad(at)runawaymedia.co.z
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 Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject: Time extension for the M14P |
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Would anybody be able to help with getting authoritative documentation , on a time extension for an M14P engine.
Currently we are held to a 750 Hr (52) and 1200 Hr (18T) TBO legislation by our CAA.
On challenging that threshold they were open to considering a time extension if it was substantiated by the manufacturer or an authority regarding these engines
We have a grey area here which has the potential to ground 90 % of the yak Community here in South Africa.
Any responses would be appreciated as usual.
Bradly Banks
Cell:0825083200
Tel :0333308580
Email :brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za
Skype: brad.banks10
[quote][b]
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tigeryak18t
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:05 am Post subject: Time extension for the M14P |
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If I am not wrong the factory potential for these motor is 750h - Inspection - 500h - inspection - 500h - end of lifeIn certain countries they will make a life extension after 750+500+500 +10%tolerances.
Didier
2012/10/2 Bradly Banks <brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za (brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za)>
| Quote: |
Would anybody be able to help with getting authoritative documentation , on a time extension for an M14P engine.
Currently we are held to a 750 Hr (52) and 1200 Hr (18T) TBO legislation by our CAA.
On challenging that threshold they were open to considering a time extension if it was substantiated by the manufacturer or an authority regarding these engines
We have a grey area here which has the potential to ground 90 % of the yak Community here in South Africa.
Any responses would be appreciated as usual.
Bradly Banks
Cell:0825083200
Tel :0333308580
Email :brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za (brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za)
Skype: brad.banks10
| Quote: |
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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--
____________________________
Didier BLOUZARD
Directeur Général DATEXIS Portable : +33 6 51 84 48 02
Email: didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)anolistech.fr)
[quote][b]
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Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing |
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richard.goode(at)russiana
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:56 am Post subject: Time extension for the M14P |
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Didier is not quite right! Firstly, one should remember that the original Russian TBOs were established in a military environment, and where they were trying to keep 300 million people employed.
Secondly, the original "life" in this environment was actually 2250 hours, this being a 750 Hour initial "life", and then 500 hours after each of three overhauls. To complicate this slightly, the initial "life" for Sukhois and single seat Yaks was 500 hours because of what was considered to be a more arduous environment. So at its very least the South African authorities should be accepting these, since the M14P/PF is a certificated engine and these are the official TBOs, and documented as such.
But if the South African CAA is giving you 750/1250 hours between overhauls, and these could be repeated, I would suggest you're doing quite well, and I'm not sure why you say that "90% of your Yaks would be grounded"?
The practicality, however, is that the engines are beautifully made and will last far longer than this without overhaul, in an environment where they are operated "on condition", and certainly 1500/2000 hours can be expected if they are properly looked after.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Didier Blouzard
Sent: 02 October 2012 17:02
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Time extension for the M14P
If I am not wrong the factory potential for these motor is 750h - Inspection - 500h - inspection - 500h - end of life
In certain countries they will make a life extension after 750+500+500 +10%tolerances.
Didier
2012/10/2 Bradly Banks <brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za (brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za)>
Would anybody be able to help with getting authoritative documentation , on a time extension for an M14P engine.
Currently we are held to a 750 Hr (52) and 1200 Hr (18T) TBO legislation by our CAA.
On challenging that threshold they were open to considering a time extension if it was substantiated by the manufacturer or an authority regarding these engines
We have a grey area here which has the potential to ground 90 % of the yak Community here in South Africa.
Any responses would be appreciated as usual.
Bradly Banks
Cell:0825083200
Tel :0333308580
Email :brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za (brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za)
Skype: brad.banks10
--
____________________________
Didier BLOUZARD
Directeur Général DATEXIS
Portable : +33 6 51 84 48 02
Email: didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)anolistech.fr)
| Quote: | | =====================< - The Yak-List Email Forum -[/b]<= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,wnload, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, |
0123456
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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tigeryak18t
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject: Time extension for the M14P |
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Richard
thanks for the figures. Everything is .... let's say not simple ... with the russian ....
But we love them and our planes ...
Best
Didier
2012/10/2 Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)>
| Quote: |
Didier is not quite right! Firstly, one should remember that the original Russian TBOs were established in a military environment, and where they were trying to keep 300 million people employed.
Secondly, the original "life" in this environment was actually 2250 hours, this being a 750 Hour initial "life", and then 500 hours after each of three overhauls. To complicate this slightly, the initial "life" for Sukhois and single seat Yaks was 500 hours because of what was considered to be a more arduous environment. So at its very least the South African authorities should be accepting these, since the M14P/PF is a certificated engine and these are the official TBOs, and documented as such.
But if the South African CAA is giving you 750/1250 hours between overhauls, and these could be repeated, I would suggest you're doing quite well, and I'm not sure why you say that "90% of your Yaks would be grounded"?
The practicality, however, is that the engines are beautifully made and will last far longer than this without overhaul, in an environment where they are operated "on condition", and certainly 1500/2000 hours can be expected if they are properly looked after.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: [url=tel:%2B44%20%280%29%201544%20340120]+44 (0) 1544 340120[/url]
Fax: [url=tel:%2B44%20%280%29%201544%20340129]+44 (0) 1544 340129[/url]
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Didier Blouzard
Sent: 02 October 2012 17:02
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Time extension for the M14P
If I am not wrong the factory potential for these motor is 750h - Inspection - 500h - inspection - 500h - end of life
In certain countries they will make a life extension after 750+500+500 +10%tolerances.
Didier
2012/10/2 Bradly Banks <brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za (brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za)>
Would anybody be able to help with getting authoritative documentation , on a time extension for an M14P engine.
Currently we are held to a 750 Hr (52) and 1200 Hr (18T) TBO legislation by our CAA.
On challenging that threshold they were open to considering a time extension if it was substantiated by the manufacturer or an authority regarding these engines
We have a grey area here which has the potential to ground 90 % of the yak Community here in South Africa.
Any responses would be appreciated as usual.
Bradly Banks
Cell:0825083200
Tel :0333308580
Email :brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za (brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za)
Skype: brad.banks10
--
____________________________
Didier BLOUZARD
Directeur Général DATEXIS
Portable : [url=tel:%2B33%206%2051%2084%2048%2002]+33 6 51 84 48 02[/url]
Email: didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)anolistech.fr)
| Quote: | | =====================< - The Yak-List Email Forum -<= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,wnload, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, |
01 2 3
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This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
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____________________________
Didier BLOUZARD
Directeur Général DATEXIS Portable : +33 6 51 84 48 02
Email: didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)anolistech.fr)
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing |
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brad(at)runawaymedia.co.z
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:24 pm Post subject: Time extension for the M14P |
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|
Hello Richard, thank you for your input here , not all but most of the 52’s here are running close to the 750-900-1000 hr mark , and when we bought our yak we were led to believe that the SA CAA would accepted that 1200 hr was the absolute limit TBO. Then we were sent a directive that 52’s were now limited to 750 hrs and 18T’s were allowed to stay at 1200 TBO. This effectively put 90% of the 52’s into a predicament, as the is no certified person here who can over haul engines. The case in point is where we have a 52 with 912 hrs on it and is in pristine condition, the blow byes are in the 80s on each pot and now the operator is forced to strip her down for a rebuild .I was hoping to find out a little more about the FAA system of IRAN.
Regards bradly Banks
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: 02 October 2012 08:54 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Time extension for the M14P
Didier is not quite right! Firstly, one should remember that the original Russian TBOs were established in a military environment, and where they were trying to keep 300 million people employed.
Secondly, the original "life" in this environment was actually 2250 hours, this being a 750 Hour initial "life", and then 500 hours after each of three overhauls. To complicate this slightly, the initial "life" for Sukhois and single seat Yaks was 500 hours because of what was considered to be a more arduous environment. So at its very least the South African authorities should be accepting these, since the M14P/PF is a certificated engine and these are the official TBOs, and documented as such.
But if the South African CAA is giving you 750/1250 hours between overhauls, and these could be repeated, I would suggest you're doing quite well, and I'm not sure why you say that "90% of your Yaks would be grounded"?
The practicality, however, is that the engines are beautifully made and will last far longer than this without overhaul, in an environment where they are operated "on condition", and certainly 1500/2000 hours can be expected if they are properly looked after.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Didier Blouzard
Sent: 02 October 2012 17:02
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Time extension for the M14P
If I am not wrong the factory potential for these motor is 750h - Inspection - 500h - inspection - 500h - end of life
In certain countries they will make a life extension after 750+500+500 +10%tolerances.
Didier
2012/10/2 Bradly Banks <brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za (brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za)>
Would anybody be able to help with getting authoritative documentation , on a time extension for an M14P engine.
Currently we are held to a 750 Hr (52) and 1200 Hr (18T) TBO legislation by our CAA.
On challenging that threshold they were open to considering a time extension if it was substantiated by the manufacturer or an authority regarding these engines
We have a grey area here which has the potential to ground 90 % of the yak Community here in South Africa.
Any responses would be appreciated as usual.
Bradly Banks
Cell:0825083200
Tel :0333308580
Email :brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za (brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za)
Skype: brad.banks10
| Quote: | | et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
--
____________________________
Didier BLOUZARD
Directeur Général DATEXIS
Portable : +33 6 51 84 48 02
Email: didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)anolistech.fr)
| Quote: | | =====================<= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,wnload, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, |
01234
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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean.
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GeorgeCoy
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:00 am Post subject: Time extension for the M14P |
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|
Bradly,
The significant difference is that the U.S. registered 52’s are operated under the EXPERIMINTAL EXHIBITION category. Basically that means that means that short of specific Airworthiness Directive (yes it theoretically can be done on experimental aircraft) there is no TBO. The aircraft and engines are operated “On Condition”. This is not an IRAN.
The IRAN (Inspect and Repair As Necessary) system does not come into play.
As South Africa like many other countries only allows the Yaks to fly under the original manufacturers rules. Thus the overhaul periods on the engines and airframes.
There are only a few companies recognized that can make “OFFICIAL” overhauls that are accepted by the governments as meting the overhaul requirements. Motorstar in Romania is one, I believe Richard Goode has a company in Hungary, several in Russia and there is one or two in Lithuania. These are companies that can supply documentation acceptable to your MOT.
I believe that Russia now officially allows extensions on overhaul periods on M14p engines and Yak airframes on a case by case basis. As far as I know, there are no certified overhaul facilities for the airframes remaining in Russia.
George Coy
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bradly Banks
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 1:20 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Time extension for the M14P
Hello Richard, thank you for your input here , not all but most of the 52’s here are running close to the 750-900-1000 hr mark , and when we bought our yak we were led to believe that the SA CAA would accepted that 1200 hr was the absolute limit TBO. Then we were sent a directive that 52’s were now limited to 750 hrs and 18T’s were allowed to stay at 1200 TBO. This effectively put 90% of the 52’s into a predicament, as the is no certified person here who can over haul engines. The case in point is where we have a 52 with 912 hrs on it and is in pristine condition, the blow byes are in the 80s on each pot and now the operator is forced to strip her down for a rebuild .I was hoping to find out a little more about the FAA system of IRAN.
Regards bradly Banks
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: 02 October 2012 08:54 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Time extension for the M14P
Didier is not quite right! Firstly, one should remember that the original Russian TBOs were established in a military environment, and where they were trying to keep 300 million people employed.
Secondly, the original "life" in this environment was actually 2250 hours, this being a 750 Hour initial "life", and then 500 hours after each of three overhauls. To complicate this slightly, the initial "life" for Sukhois and single seat Yaks was 500 hours because of what was considered to be a more arduous environment. So at its very least the South African authorities should be accepting these, since the M14P/PF is a certificated engine and these are the official TBOs, and documented as such.
But if the South African CAA is giving you 750/1250 hours between overhauls, and these could be repeated, I would suggest you're doing quite well, and I'm not sure why you say that "90% of your Yaks would be grounded"?
The practicality, however, is that the engines are beautifully made and will last far longer than this without overhaul, in an environment where they are operated "on condition", and certainly 1500/2000 hours can be expected if they are properly looked after.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Didier Blouzard
Sent: 02 October 2012 17:02
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Time extension for the M14P
If I am not wrong the factory potential for these motor is 750h - Inspection - 500h - inspection - 500h - end of life
In certain countries they will make a life extension after 750+500+500 +10%tolerances.
Didier
2012/10/2 Bradly Banks <brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za (brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za)>
Would anybody be able to help with getting authoritative documentation , on a time extension for an M14P engine.
Currently we are held to a 750 Hr (52) and 1200 Hr (18T) TBO legislation by our CAA.
On challenging that threshold they were open to considering a time extension if it was substantiated by the manufacturer or an authority regarding these engines
We have a grey area here which has the potential to ground 90 % of the yak Community here in South Africa.
Any responses would be appreciated as usual.
Bradly Banks
Cell:0825083200
Tel :0333308580
Email :brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za (brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za)
Skype: brad.banks10
--
____________________________
Didier BLOUZARD
Directeur Général DATEXIS
Portable : +33 6 51 84 48 02
Email: didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)anolistech.fr)
| Quote: | | =====================<= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,wnload, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, |
01234
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brad(at)runawaymedia.co.z
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:06 am Post subject: Time extension for the M14P |
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Hello All , firstly thankyou for the valuable input from you all, we are truly a global community.
The fact that the Sa CAA are willing to listen is a big help, and in going about this exercise ,( and not to state the obvious) one needs to keep the safety of the pilot in focus all the time.
That being said we must find a common agreed upon life span Or as George you have put it get registered as a fully experimental category.
I’ll investigate that option an revert to you all with any findings.
Regards to all have written in on the subject.
Brad
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Coy
Sent: 03 October 2012 01:59 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Time extension for the M14P
Bradly,
The significant difference is that the U.S. registered 52’s are operated under the EXPERIMINTAL EXHIBITION category. Basically that means that means that short of specific Airworthiness Directive (yes it theoretically can be done on experimental aircraft) there is no TBO. The aircraft and engines are operated “On Condition”. This is not an IRAN.
The IRAN (Inspect and Repair As Necessary) system does not come into play.
As South Africa like many other countries only allows the Yaks to fly under the original manufacturers rules. Thus the overhaul periods on the engines and airframes.
There are only a few companies recognized that can make “OFFICIAL” overhauls that are accepted by the governments as meting the overhaul requirements. Motorstar in Romania is one, I believe Richard Goode has a company in Hungary, several in Russia and there is one or two in Lithuania. These are companies that can supply documentation acceptable to your MOT.
I believe that Russia now officially allows extensions on overhaul periods on M14p engines and Yak airframes on a case by case basis. As far as I know, there are no certified overhaul facilities for the airframes remaining in Russia.
George Coy
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bradly Banks
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 1:20 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Time extension for the M14P
Hello Richard, thank you for your input here , not all but most of the 52’s here are running close to the 750-900-1000 hr mark , and when we bought our yak we were led to believe that the SA CAA would accepted that 1200 hr was the absolute limit TBO. Then we were sent a directive that 52’s were now limited to 750 hrs and 18T’s were allowed to stay at 1200 TBO. This effectively put 90% of the 52’s into a predicament, as the is no certified person here who can over haul engines. The case in point is where we have a 52 with 912 hrs on it and is in pristine condition, the blow byes are in the 80s on each pot and now the operator is forced to strip her down for a rebuild .I was hoping to find out a little more about the FAA system of IRAN.
Regards bradly Banks
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: 02 October 2012 08:54 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Time extension for the M14P
Didier is not quite right! Firstly, one should remember that the original Russian TBOs were established in a military environment, and where they were trying to keep 300 million people employed.
Secondly, the original "life" in this environment was actually 2250 hours, this being a 750 Hour initial "life", and then 500 hours after each of three overhauls. To complicate this slightly, the initial "life" for Sukhois and single seat Yaks was 500 hours because of what was considered to be a more arduous environment. So at its very least the South African authorities should be accepting these, since the M14P/PF is a certificated engine and these are the official TBOs, and documented as such.
But if the South African CAA is giving you 750/1250 hours between overhauls, and these could be repeated, I would suggest you're doing quite well, and I'm not sure why you say that "90% of your Yaks would be grounded"?
The practicality, however, is that the engines are beautifully made and will last far longer than this without overhaul, in an environment where they are operated "on condition", and certainly 1500/2000 hours can be expected if they are properly looked after.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Didier Blouzard
Sent: 02 October 2012 17:02
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Time extension for the M14P
If I am not wrong the factory potential for these motor is 750h - Inspection - 500h - inspection - 500h - end of life
In certain countries they will make a life extension after 750+500+500 +10%tolerances.
Didier
2012/10/2 Bradly Banks <brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za (brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za)>
Would anybody be able to help with getting authoritative documentation , on a time extension for an M14P engine.
Currently we are held to a 750 Hr (52) and 1200 Hr (18T) TBO legislation by our CAA.
On challenging that threshold they were open to considering a time extension if it was substantiated by the manufacturer or an authority regarding these engines
We have a grey area here which has the potential to ground 90 % of the yak Community here in South Africa.
Any responses would be appreciated as usual.
Bradly Banks
Cell:0825083200
Tel :0333308580
Email :brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za (brad(at)runawaymedia.co.za)
Skype: brad.banks10
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____________________________
Didier BLOUZARD
Directeur Général DATEXIS
Portable : +33 6 51 84 48 02
Email: didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)anolistech.fr)
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Wim
Joined: 03 Oct 2012
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: Re: Time extension for the M14P |
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Brad, we're in the same situation with our 52 approaching 750 hrs TT (albeit a few years to go). It may be true that NTCAs are allowed to run on condition by the SA CAA like the experimentals in the US. Perhaps the EAA will know what's going on since I believe they have been lobbying the CAA for a while to achieve this.
Wim
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