aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
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 Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:09 am Post subject: RV-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 10/06/12 |
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HI Greg-
That is an excellent question and example.
Starting at the back end and working forward, if you read the regs from end to end, you will never come across the concepts of "check out" or "insurance".
The basic FAA qualification scheme involves category and class, and then type ratings for turbojets and anything over 12,500 pounds. Some weaknesses in this scheme became apparent over time, and one-time endorsements evolved. In the context of this discussion, High Performance, Complex, and Conventional Gear come to mind. However, only certificate, category, and class are noted in the reg in question here. So, had you gotten a multi engine rating in a Champion Lancer, you could be safety pilot in a twin Beech. How's that for a stretch? But the salient point is that you are ACTING as PIC, not BEING PIC.
So yes, in the example you cited, your safety pilot time would count towards your requirements. The bit of trivia I don't posess is whether a safety pilot needs a valid medical cert for operations in VMC. I suspect the answer is no since a med cert is not mentioned in either 61.51 (logging time) or 91.109 (safety pilot), but I am also pretty confident the average safety inspector, when put on the spot and absent the specific knowledge, would default to the most conervative answer.
Now, what an FBO or an insurance company requires to protect itself from liability is an entirely separate hurdle. Functionally those hurdles are as significant as the regulatory ones, and in the pilot lounge the significance of and distinction between the sources of the hurdles can become blurred.
As a tangential issue, when you take instruction for your commercial certificate, your CFI will not need a valid medical certificate. This is because you will be qualified for the operations conducted, and as such you will be PIC, not acting PIC. As long as there is a real PIC aboard, you are good to go. To take training towards an Instrument certificate in IMC would require the CFII to have a valid medical certificate, as the student would not be qualified for that particular operation. (since there is no such thing as an FAA aerobatic certificate or endorsement, you can take acro dual from anybody, with or without a CFI. You just can't count that 'dual' for an FAA certificate or rating of any sort. Of course, 'anybody' is not a good concept WRT acro, but that is a whole 'nuther topic).
Now, this list being what it is, surely someone somewhere is already searching the back of the fridge for an old tomato. What I recommend to others is what I do myself: Don't take someone else's word, including mine, for any of this. Read the pertinent regs, and go to the FAA website and pull up the legal interpretations on the topic. Also, I myself have the good fortune to know several good folks in the FAA that I can count on for straight answers, including "Huh... I'll have to look that one up!"
| Quote: | Time: 10:20:33 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Re: logging PIC time, was Almost an RV question.....
From: mr.gsun(at)gmail.com
So, if I am in a complex aircraft acting as PIC because I am the safety
pilot, can I count that as some of the complex time needed for my
commercial? Even though I am not checked out, nor insured to fly that
aircraft? I am, however, current in my RV7 with a current class II
medical.
Greg
On Oct 5, 2012 1:41 AM, "Glen Matejcek" wrote:
>
> HI Guys-
>
> This is a subject area that triggers heated debates all the way up to
> heavy cockpits. The source guidance for this particular issue can be found
> in FAR 61.51(e)(1)(iii) which states, paraphrased, that when ACTING as PIC
> you can log PIC. While the statemant that there is only one PIC aboard is
> correct, it is also correct that when one pilot (the real PIC) is under the
> hood in VMC, he can not fully discharge his duties. The safety pilot is an
> FAR required position and can only be filled by someone with the
> appropriate category and class ratings. Per the reg cited above, the
> safety pilot gets to log PIC and it does indeed count towards his next
> certificate or rating. Tailwheel and complex / high perf endorsements are
> not an issue.
>
> If you guys think this stuff is sticky, get a couple heavy pilots to
> discuss logging bunk time on multi-crew long haul flights... however, not
> only is the black ink on the white page, but the FAA website has a section
> for legal interpretations that spells out how DC views these issues.
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Glen Matejcek
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